Do you give money to beggars?

Just waded through this thread, the one thing that strikes me is that there a lot of anecdotes about ‘someone who begs but isn’t in need’ type situations, like the post above ^

What’s sad is that this seems to be being used as an excuse by some not to help the thousands of others that genuinely are in need.

It’s like the whole ‘I once saw a cyclist run a red light argument’ but a bazillion times worse 🙁

There’s a few gems in here from people saying that if they get conned once in a while it doesn’t matter to them as long as the other 90% of the time it’s genuine. I think we need to hold onto that and not let a minority of bad apples further deprive those in need.

A few quid, a meal, a jacket, sometimes even a just chat with another human being willing to look you in the eye can make all the difference.

‘someone who begs but isn’t in need’ type situations

What’s sad is that this seems to be being used as an excuse by some not to help the thousands of others that genuinely are in need.

Oh the ironing of this statement and similar. Just because you don’t give to someone in the street due to direct experience does not infer the above. Does the giving in the street not just satisfy the immediate desire to “do some good”? When in fact it may, in the long term, do the opposite, the real answer is “you don’t know”. There may not be a right or wrong answer to this, just your point of view.

I always pay decent Buskers.

Beggers? No. You are feeding a habit. Pure and simple.

Oh the ironing of this statement and similar. Just because you don’t give to someone in the street due to direct experience does not infer the above

Well I was referring to the comments from people (both in this thread and off it in real life) saying they don’t give because of the above, very little inference there, and hardly an absolute statement when I qualified my comment with ‘some people’, ie: not all, not you, not me, but some people.

How you choose to help is entirely up to you (including not at all), I just think it’s sad that comments like this help to perpetuate the idea that people on the streets don’t need help.

Choosing not to give because they might spend it on X/Y/Z and in the long run that might not be the best way to help is one thing.
Choosing not to give because they might live at number 23 and be off on hols to Ibiza on monday is another matter entirely.

There may not be a right or wrong answer to this, just your point of view

Absolutely it’s my POV, I never claimed to be providing a solution or to be ‘right’. But do you not think that trotting out these anecdotes and stories does more harm than good?

And you’re right, in the long run I don’t know, I wrangle with this every single time and I don’t know what is the right thing to do as it so often varies from person to person and circumstance to circumstance.

Such is life, full of colour, and many shades of grey.

I always pay decent Buskers.

Beggers? No. You are feeding a habit. Pure and simple.

what if the busker is feeding a habit?

Same could be said for your employer and your bike part habit

Don’t be daft! Musicians don’t take drugs! Everybody knows that! 🙄

Don’t normally donate due to conflicting advice on whether its helpful or not, but have a great deal of admiration for all the people involved in this story –
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/dec/17/student-raises-thousands-of-pounds-for-homeless-man-who-offered-her-money

I have found a cuppa (or cold bottle of water in the summer) is often more welcomed than some loose change.

Some genuinely unpleasant people have outed themselves on this thread. Well done for not having a broken noggin / ever having been unlucky several weeks in a row. I’m bloody lucky but I recognise that and try my best not to judge those who maybe aren’t.

last few days I’ve noticed a chap in an old bus shelter that I cycle past, he always seems to have a lot of bags, its dark and its a nice area on that bit of my commute, I go a different route home so dont know if hes just there for the night or more. So what should I do… last few days I’ve thought about stopping to find out more and then deciding if I offer him food/cash. Hmmm having read this thread I now have no further idea, so many contradictory opinions. I think first step is to talk to him, find out some more and go that way home and see if hes there.

hora, it’s enough of a struggle to get you to buy a round in a pub. Christ knows what it would take for you to give money away for nothing.

passed a beggar at lunch time today made eye contact and recognised him as a robber from a case I did a couple of years ago he made no effort to ask for cash so I had a chat , he is not homeless he has a really rough flat , he was off gear and drink ( from appearance and demeanour I believe that plus he’d most likely be straight with me) his benefits are suspended but he has an appointment to lodge a fresh claim . he just has no money no food and an uncertain timescale before he will have anything . There is no way you would sit out in leeds in this weather if you had a choice . I gave him some change . I know his back story I know what he has done in the past and turned away from a few quid to keep him getting by and on a better track is a few quid well spent.

I do wonder what I would have done had I not read this thread before I saw him.

ti_pin_man – Member
last few days I’ve noticed a chap in an old bus shelter that I cycle past, he always seems to have a lot of bags, its dark and its a nice area on that bit of my commute….. …… I think first step is to talk to him, find out some more and go that way home and see if he’s there.

Do just that, just talk to him, say hello.

He might not want to talk and tell you to ‘**** off’! He might quite like to talk to you as you might be the first person to speak to him in quite a while. If he wants to talk then ask him a few questions and you might find out a bit about him. If he is homeless he might appreciate the offer of a waterproof coat, gloves or an old sleeping bag. A decent pair of trousers are highly regarded if you don’t have any money to buy any and live on the streets.

If you do get talking to him you might find that he is quite similar to other people you know but just had a run of bad luck and will quite happily talk about his past. He might be a horrible old grumpy bastard that just drinks too much. Just be prepared to not judge.

There’s a young lad who sleeps rough in an underpass on my way to work. He never begs, he’s never drinking, smoking or look like he’s on drugs. he just tries to get his head down.
occasionally I would say hi and pass over what change I had, he was grateful for what people gave him but never begged.
the clothes he had were old and worn and his blanket was full of holes.

as someone who spends a fair bit of time camping etc I knew I had a mound of old kit so I asked him if he would mind if I offered him some of my kit. my reasoning being that I could never donate enough money to make that big a difference to his life.
he was made up by my offer, I was made up by seeing his gratitude.
I spoke to a friend or two about what I was going to do, they all thought it was a great idea and went away…
the next day I walked into the underpass looking like santa, I had an old royalmail post sack filled with an old 3 season sleeping bag, roll mat, Gore-Tex jacket, trousers, boots and a wooly hat and gloves.
he could not have been any happier. it may not have gotten him off the streets but it meant that his days were a little more comfortable.

I have no problem in helping those in need, it’s just knowing how best to do this.

Don’t understand the “I’ll buy them food / coffee but not give cash” attitude. It’s freezing cold and a miserable existence on the streets. I’d probably spend it on drugs if I lived rough. And having just read that I realise I’m as guilty of the same awful stereotyping as the rest of you.

I rarely – but do occasionally – give cash but I don’t give a flying toss what they spend it on. Partly because I hardly ever have cash on me but mostly because there’s a handy Shelter donation box* nearby.

* Which does, admittedly, say “Don’t give beggars cash” on it. But it would, wouldn’t it?

some very interesting scientific research and developments in our thinking on the causes of addiction..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

I’m not saying that all beggars are addicts, but I think the article relates to the plight of the homeless person in other ways too.. especially considering some of the more ignorant replies on this thread

Piha – I was at the Rough Sleepers centre for Crisis have been at the same centre for a few years now.

Do just that, just talk to him, say hello.

I did just that, went via his bus shelter on the way home. He lost his home last year and became homeless on December 5th. He tried the local councils of course and was told that they had to see him/find him homeless before they could find accommodation, he knew the area so used an old wooden bus shelter to stay. The area is a pretty posh area and he’s still new to it so pretty approachable, no drugs and though he says he does drink, he doesn’t. He said the local community had been really supportive, lots of people have given him food, the local pool has let him shower and shave, he has four sleeping bags and is currently well kitted out. The local church had been supportive and he was offered a sleep in one of the nearby homeless halls but is trying to keep away as he doesnt want to become one of those drinking / drug homeless for lifers types, his words.

I asked if there was anything I could get him and he said not, he’s well provisioned by the little old dears who are feeding him and has enough clothes and sleeping bags. So I said I’d drop past occasionally and make sure he didnt need anything. I ride that route 3 or 4 times a week. His name is John. He mentioned he had a wife, guess an ex wife and he was in his mid to late 30’s, nice chap and no, no job. He’s sort of waiting for the housing process to get going.

I’m glad I stopped. It crossed my mind to offer him my garage to sleep in… I have babies and the mrs probably wouldn’t be happy about him being in the spare room or even the garage but man it was so cold last night.

thoughts? what would you do?

Ti Pin Man – fair play to you, well done. Seems like other people in your village have noticed John and are looking out for him too. It might be worth enquiring as to whether the council are progressing with his housing status at some stage. Easy for us with access to the internet 24/7, fill in forms and chase councils up, not so easier for rough sleepers.

Not so long ago, I would have prejudged John in his bus stop but after speaking to people in a similar predicament I now realise that they all have a different story of how they ended up homeless. Most don’t want to be homeless but it can be incredibly difficult to get out of of that downwards spiral and back into mainstream society. Homelessness is a horrible, vicious place.

Very cold last night, minus 5 when I left for work this morning. If I was sleeping outside last night I would be buying all the cold weather gear my plastic would allow and that would be for just one night. Different story when sleeping outside is your usual way of life. Guess I would be tempted by a few cans of super strength cider or lager to numb the cold!!!

Luke – I was at The Gate, I did wonder if I might have bumped into you.

I walked up to see him this afternoon and he was pretty upbeat as a little old lady had promised him a fish pie and somebody else had made him soup for lunch. HE realises this probably puts him at the top of the homeless tree! I asked about the cold last night and he said it was but he managed. I offered him a spot in my garage on crash mats tonight and he said he’d love that but was worried that would lower his chances of a council bed. He said they checked up and he really wanted it and not to risk his place in the queue. Fair do’s. He then said he’d lovechicken soup tomorrow! I said it was my pleasure.

To be honest he’s just like anybody you might meet, just not doing very well with a house. It so easily could be any of us. It really is a fine line. I might pop along later to see if he got his pie and is sure he doesn’t want our garage for the night.

I’m disappointed in my own fear to approach him in the first place.

Interesting link here on homelessness – http://www.channel4.com/news/rough-sleepers-homeless-streetlink-help-weather

Ti Pin Man – sounds like John is eating better than most! Keep us updated.

It’s interesting article cheers!

I took my daughters up to meet him today, they took him vegetable soup in a thermos and some heated pita bread wrapped in foil and a banana. He was in good spirits and we chatted a bit more, a few years back he was a manager of a building society, ironic, but then was redundant, the tried to run investments and shares, sadly the world went crazy and he held in for as long as he could but then lost it all. Interest rates and house prices killed his mortgage and he was left out in the cold.

People should think about his story, he had a lot and made some mistakes and ended up homeless, he lost his wife and boy, it’s all gone. It proves what a fine line we all tread, it could be any of us. This is why you should support the homeless, talk to them, know why they got into this mess and see in yourself how close the line can be to all of us!

Just read this great article by Lucy Mangan in Yesterdays Guardian, which a few of the more lofty contributors to this thread could certainly do with reading

If you don’t understand how people fall into poverty, you’re probably a sociopath

If you are genuinely unable to apply your imagination and extend your empathy far enough – and you don’t have to do it all at once; little by little will suffice, but you must get there – then you are a sociopath, and we should all be protected from your actions. If you are in fact able and choose not to, then you’re something quite a lot worse.

nice to see some compassion in the last page or two! I read that too Binners, made me kinda angry that this happens in such a wealthy modern society. wrong wrong wrong. Are we as a supposed “society” to help those in terrible need. well yes. Yes. is that a difficult thing to comprehend? massive amounts of wealth shuffling to the top, hang on, spread that a bit to other human beings. **** sake, it’s not a difficult idea! yeah some will take the piss I suppose..and the butwhataboutery.

Ti Pin Man, Johns explanation of his past is a perfect example of how things can go awry. I hope he manages to get himself sorted out.

Binners – thanks for posting that article, good read.

Kevevs – a temporary homeless persons shelter was set up in Canary Wharf over the recent holiday season. The juxtaposition didn’t go unnoticed at the time!

Great Gaelic busker in Hebden Bridge today.

I give my tax to the government. If they choose to spend it on fripperies like nuclear weapons instead of welfare then I wont feel guilty about that.

The UK government gives close to £1billion each year in aid to Pakistan, Indian and two other countries alone.

India with its space programme and horrific poverty on the streets.

For me it’s not really about politics, the big parties are pretty much the same and this isn’t a political thread, it’s about humanity and kindness. The biggest difference to the world you can make is to do something local.

I collected my empty soup thermos from John today. I’m optimistic about his prospects. I’ll stop when I pass him each night on my bike, see if he’s ok and needs anything. Even being well looked after by the community I guess he’s close to the next edge, closer to the downward spiral and vulnerable.

I popped along tonight to see john. Took Gina big thermos of chicken soup and some fruit.

He’s still in good spirits. Hopes to have all the paperwork completed for the room in a house he’s found. Paperwork is with the council. The house seems to be a shared house with lots of split out rooms. Pretty much unfurnished but at least it’s off the streets. He should find out on Saturday or Monday if it’s all sorted. Having chatted to him a few times I’m sure he isn’t perfect, he has clearly made mistakes but he is positive, has a nice attitude and I hope he at least gets off the streets this weekend.

I asked him why he hasn’t tried at the local shelter and he said he didn’t want to go, he was worried about crossing that line just yet. He was worried about having stuff stolen, and starting to mix with longer term homeless, drugs and alcohol. His words, not mine.

This week I’ll carry on checking on him. I don’t think he’ll deteriate, pretty hopeful he’ll be sorted soon. Fingers crossed. I see this as an important time when delays in admin could easily push people into a more permanent homeless life. Seems like a fragile time when society should keep their eyes on these folk.

I often don’t have any change. I’ll give people a twenty if I’m in the mood. I’ve no idea what they then go and spend it on, or whether it is technically the “best” thing to do with the money to help them. However, I figure sitting on the street trying to accumulate 20 quid in change is so inefficient that there’s not a lot of time in the day to sort out all the other stuff you have to do to eventually get something better sorted out.

🙂

Good stuff Ti_pin_man; interested to hear if he manages to get a place sorted; he’ll miss the soup though 🙂

he has changed my attitude to the homeless, I was always wary, a little scared of them. I still dont think money is the first thing I would give a beggar. Maybe something to eat but perhaps the best thing is to give them time, spend a few minutes to see what they need.

Found this interesting

Once you get past the inflammatory headline Third Force News article