Do you believe in fate?

Just watched a TV programme about the 7/7 London bombings. I'm surprized at how superstitious people are about what happened.

I'm so sorry for all affected, but I can't help thinking this trauma has sent them a bit nuts.

Humans are predisposed to trying to make sense of stuff they cannot understand or explain, by imagining some divine power is guiding them, or someone is watching over them. Rational thought seems to go out the window.

Why is that?

Because they're all taught from a very early age that totally mental ideas are normal.

I blame Santa Claus

I think in major disasters like that the difference between tragic death and miraculous survival is so slight seemingly arbitrary that if you are in that circumstance its not an easy thing to rationalise.

I didn't watch the programme last night, but I saw an earlier one. Wasn't there an old guy who was practically standing right next to one of the bombs who was pretty much unscathed while all around him people were killed to peices. Its maybe not superstition as such, other than by turn of phrase, but its pretty hard not to be philosophical in those circumstances. Every milestone you'll reach in life thereafter is always going to be accompanied by the thought of how different things could have been.

We are taught from a young age to believe in miracles that happened 2,000yrs ago.

Recent miracles have shown themselves in teacups etc.

No wonder people act this way.

Why is that?

It's so widespread that it seems unlikely to be there by chance. At some point in our evolutionary history, it must have conferred some kind of survival advantage, causing the carriers of this mutation to be better able to reproduce.

Because to absolve yourself of the control that you have to determine your destiny is, for some, strangely comforting?

The human brain is hard wired to try and spot patterns. Totally random or unpredictable events don't fit easily in the human brain so it 'invents' patterns to account for them.

This isn't limited to humans. There was an experiment with chickens where bits of corn were dropped into the cage at random intervals. The chicken might be preening its wing when the corn drops. It sees the corn drops and eats it. it then repeatedly preens its wing in the hope this will make the corn drop again. If the corn doesn't drop the chicken carries on preening. If the corn drops the chicken is convinced it is caused by the preening.

Dumb chickens? Check out human 'lucky rituals'

You become a little curious about fate etc when you have a near death experience. I was about 5 inches away from meeting the big fella in the sky when i was 23 and it had a profound impact on me. Haven't become superstious or anything but I definitly have that what will be will be mentality now.

LHS – I had something similar when I was younger. I fell out of a 2nd story window and landed on a pile of bin bags. My left sleeve was ripped on the spiked metal fence I just missed and I scraped my nose on the brick gate post to the right. Any closer either direction and there would be no Big Bike Bash.

Never really thought it affected me mentally but I have always just thought 'Whats the worse that could happen?'

I think that the concept of fate is so popular because so many people refuse to consider the concept of coincidence. People take comfort in the believe that there's a plan – be it personal, local or universal.

People are generally frightened, irrational and superstitious. The Age of Reason wasn't really that popular with the masses.

Err there are stats about boys being too adventurous and meeting their maker. Its what lads do when growing up.

I used to cycle as fast as I could down a very steep busy road on a Puch or Striker when I was 5. Inches away from cars. Then there were the tree falls, landing on my head, knockouts etc 😀

@BBB – in answer to your question it's that you might type 'worse' rather than 'worst' on a forum full of pedants.

I've had a similar brush with my mortality, but that just involved myself and a few passers by who helped. I think the big issue for survivors of large scale traumas is accepting how they survived while those around them did not. Lucky underpants, coincidence, fate, divine intervention, scientific reasoning – pick whatever you want to believe in and rebuild yourself from that.

My wife and I on our honeymoon in Thailand on Boxing Day 2004 cme within 30 minutes of the fate of 4,000 other people at the resort area we had just taken a bus away from.

We've never thought any more of it than the close shave it was. But then Im a sceptic and atheist so have no time for bunkem no matter how comforting it might be.

Stoner, leads me to think – How many STW'ers have we lost over the years that we will never know about?

hora – we will never know

When a STW falls in the forest, does he make a sound if no is there to hear?

If a husband expresses an opinion is it still wrong if his wife is not there to hear?

Well we know the default answer for when a woman expresses any thought 8)

I believe in karma.

<Ignoring the howls of derision and ploughing resolutely on>

I think (to put it very simplistically) that if you are honourable, brave, courteous, honest etc that you do affect your surroundings and other people and I believe that what goes around comes around.

When a STW falls in the forest, does he make a sound if no is there to hear?

given we're all middle aged and overweight, it'll make a fairly solid crash. Then there'll be the sound of the air ambulance coming to attend to our grazes. And then TJ's caterwauling about self sufficiency, accompanied by the click of SFB's shutter taking photos of the arses of the ambulance crew.

That's the sound I imagine it'll make.

If it wasn't for the internet TJ would have a spot in Edinburgh holding a book and huraning people about some subject or other….

if a fat woman falls in the woods and no one is there, is it still funny ?

If it wasn't for the internet TJ would have a spot in Edinburgh holding a book and huraning people about some subject or other….

he'd have one of those sandwich boards, but instead of it being in praise of god, it'd all be about HR law and unions

"THE TRIBUNAL COMETH"

and on the back:

"JOIN A UNION but DISSOLVE THE UNION!"

Oh dear dear.

Pook and Stoner. You are now in TJ's sights (shakes head at the fragility of life and living in the eye of a storm)…

Hora – It was not their fault. IT WAS FATE

….and there can only be one. The Quickening begins…

They must meet here, the Spaniard, the dodgy scary-looking one and that Scot..

here…

I think (to put it very simplistically) that if you are honourable, brave, courteous, honest etc that you do affect your surroundings and other people and I believe that what goes around comes around.

Does that mean the 4000 that werent as fortunate as Stoner were none of these things?

No surfer – they were fine, it was just FATE

A friends school tried to raise money. Do you think that was fate*?

*I know it is spelt differently

We all get what is coming to us. Death.

Does that mean the 4000 that werent as fortunate as Stoner were none of these things?

Sometimes it takes more than one lifetime, and sometimes the gods have their own plans which override our efforts (ie, fate).

Sometimes it takes more than one lifetime, and sometimes the gods have their own plans which override our efforts (ie, fate).

So those 4,000 were bad people in their previous life?

Gods have their own plans? Do you have a shrine at home with paper masha idols?

What about the countless Indonesians that die periodically in natural disasters?- Are the Gods racist towards Indonesians?

So those 4,000 were bad people in their previous life?

Gods have their own plans? Do you have a shrine at home with paper masha idols?

What about the countless Indonesians that die periodically in natural disasters?- Are the Gods racist towards Indonesians?

Careful now, you’re inviting the "it all happens for a reason" get-out-of-jail-free card that religious people play when faced with difficult questions about their faith. 😉

I do however believe in a previous life. I wont tell you who I was earlier this century.

Yes, I realise that I have strayed into religious territory …
which I feel uncomfortable about.

I don't know why people get killed in natural disasters. It is very sad. I hope they get a better deal in the next life.

hora – what was the bunker like in those final hours?

I don't know why people get killed in natural disasters.

Usually because the environmental charcteristics of the event exceed the design limitations of the human body.

Wrong side.