DIY Degreaser

Just seen an MBR video on YouTube about cheap bike maintenance using non bike specific products.

One of them was degreaser made from bicarbonate of soda, lemon juice and water.

Has anyone tried it? Is it as good as commercial citrus degreasers?

Dunno, but for just over a fiver, I reckon life’s too short to be making it up yourself…

One of the reviews for that degreaser says NOT to be used on aluminium.

none of my aluminium parts had disintigrated been using it in my parts cleaner for 2 years now.

Bicarbonate of soda is used to clean metalware.

Yes degreasers are expensive but slightly less corrosive !

One of them was degreaser made from bicarbonate of soda, lemon juice and water.

We are truly re-entering the dark ages…

I searched for ‘degreaser’ as I used to buy Poundworld branded stuff. Looked like Muc off and worked just as well at £2 a ltr.

On the lookout for similar. I wash and clean 10+ bikes at work (school) so need to the cost down.

Baking soda or bicarb is excellent for degreasing.  Make a paste and leave it on stubborn marks.

Not sure about mixing it with lemon juice though.  Bicarb is slightly more alkaline than most detergents, so saponifies any grease/oil type things.  If you put lemon in, surely you are neutralizing the alkalinity making it less effective?

One after the other might work I guess.

I use swarfega oil and grease remover from Screwfix. £8 for 5ltr. Can use it neat for cleaning really dirty chains or diluted for general degreasing. For cleaning then bulk car shampoo does the job. Carplan is good and smells of bubblegum.

Hi Nick I’ve used this for a few year and it’s just like muck off https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F251896125149.   I wouldn’t say it’s a degreaser but it’s good at cleaning muck off ya bikes.

Scottoiler 365 and a Karcher. No need for degreaser. Job done.

YMMV (depending on how precious you are about your bike)…

I use this:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/swarfega-patio-driveway-cleaner-5ltr/85114

Works fine.

Not sure about mixing it with lemon juice though.  Bicarb is slightly more alkaline than most detergents, so saponifies any grease/oil type things.  If you put lemon in, surely you are neutralizing the alkalinity making it less effective?

Citric acid is a good degreaser as well, so really they’re mixing two good degreasers together and making sodium citrate solution. sodium citrate is still an emulsifier but I’ve no idea if it’s more or less effective than the individual ingredients.

Besides, Jiff lemon is going to be a lot more expensive than just buying TFR or using generic value multi surface cleaner fro the supermarket which costs about 13p.

What’s wrong with Paraffin or Methylated Spirits?

I wouldn’t use it to clean a whole bike but it does a very good job of degreasing bits of a bike 🙂

What’s wrong with Paraffin or Methylated Spirits?

If you dispose of it responsibly then it’s fine, but the cumulative effect of thousands of cyclists pouring a load of white spirit on the ground or down the drain every weekend probably wouldn’t be great when it eventually makes its way into streams and rivers.

Diesel – 1.32 a litre 😉

Most white spirit evaporates.

Recirculating pump /sump parts cleaner means very little waste to be disposed of…..

Which is why I use the no nonsense degreaser as it doesn’t stink out the garage like diesel

I use the screwfix no nonsense degreaser diluted with two thirds water in a spray bottle, this is enough for chains/cassettes.

Soap & water for the rest of the bike.

If you dispose of it responsibly then it’s fine, but the cumulative effect of thousands of cyclists pouring a load of white spirit on the ground or down the drain every weekend probably wouldn’t be great when it eventually makes its way into streams and rivers.

If you leave the dirty paraffin for a couple of days it seperates out and you can reuse it.

Most white spirit evaporates.

It will, but very very slowly, it’s vapour pressure is around 0.1-1.4kPa at 20C, or between a approximately a half and a 25th of water. And leaving it to evaporate isn’t exactly environmentally responsible either.

degreasers use citrus terpenes … these are a by-product of the juice / beverage industry.  Whilst they smell great, they are not very stable – but the are very good at desolving grease but being water soluble.   And they are actually quite kind to you bike, and the world.

If you really want to use bicarb, lemon juice and water, have a world with youself ….

Americans do this thing where they insist that Victorian cleaning methods are the pinnacle of chemical engineering and everything since then has been a big money making scam. So they like to do these ‘incredible money saving life hacks’ where you can get make cleaning products in your own home for a fraction of the cost and with much better results. The amazing secrets always turn out to be vinegar and/or sodium bicarbonate, every time, as if these two things can solve every one of the world’s problems. So I think this is what the OP is witnessing.

Personally I don’t want my house or clothes smelling of vinegar but that’s just me I suppose.

Citric acid is a good degreaser as well, so really they’re mixing two good degreasers together

Acid + carbonate –> salt + water + CO2

What they’re making will only contain one ingredient or the other in much reduced quantity, plus some water, plus some dissolved rubbish. It’ll fizz for a bit though. If they get the proportions bang-on, it’ll contain none of the initial ingredients at all.

Wouldn’t put it near my bike, in any case.

Isn’t TFR prone to fading anodising? Especially Hope.

Citric acid is an okay degreaser but not if you mix it with a base, as explained above.  That’s what I was getting at, I was just too lazy to do the chemistry, tillydog wasn’t

As mrmoofo says, citrus terpenes, mostly d-limonene, are what is used in commercial citrus degreasers.  Now that mixed with baking soda might work, as I don’t think the hydrocarbon would react with the alkaline soda.

The Victorian solutions keep coming back because they work and are much safer than the alternatives.  Vinegar is just a mild acid, you can drink, wash it down the sink, and there aren’t a lot of acidic things people can lay their hands on that you can say that about.  Same with bicarb.  I’ve eaten stuff with bicarb in but I wouldn’t do that with lye, a fairly easily found alkaline agent.  So they are safe, work pretty well and won’t do a lot of damage to anything.  People buy a lot of cr*p that claims to be better bit isn’t necessarily.

Acid + carbonate –> salt + water + CO2

What they’re making will only contain one ingredient or the other in much reduced quantity, plus some water, plus some dissolved rubbish. It’ll fizz for a bit though. If they get the proportions bang-on, it’ll contain none of the initial ingredients at all.

If you’re going to critique the chemistry, at least read the whole sentence you’re critiquing……

“making sodium citrate solution. sodium citrate is still an emulsifier but I’ve no idea if it’s more or less effective than the individual ingredients.”

It’s a common ingredient in soap, although google suggests it’s more to prevent watermarks and soap scum than for it’s properties as a surfactant itself.

Sodium citrate, is, and I am really stretching my chemistry here, used as a chelating agent in detergents to neutralise the metal ions in hard water, which can appear to be dirt to the detergents, this using up some of the cleaning action on trying to get rid of them.  I think. Maybe.  You’d have to double check that because I may be misremembering.

I think tillydog might be suggesting that if you use up the saponifiers or acids on making sodium citrate then you have no cleaners left but you do have the helper and nothing else.  That’s is different than adding already made sodium citrate to the others so that you have both or all three present in your cleaner

Citric acid can dissolve the layer of oxide that normally protects (highly reactive) aluminium from oxidation.  It is why you need to be careful when using raw aluminium pans for cooking fruit. But in practice I have had no issues using citrus degreaser on bike stuff, most of it is well anodised and you rinse it off pretty quick. Also possibly the citrus degreaser products are not acidic enough for this to be a problem.

Maybe the lemon juice is added to teh bicarb give it a bit of fizz, which helps dislodge the bits?

If you dispose of it responsibly then it’s fine,

What actually happens to something that has been disposed of responsibly?

Also possibly the citrus degreaser products are not acidic enough for this to be a problem.

The citrus in those degreasers is from the oils of the fruit, not the juice so it isn’t acidic.  It’s a hydrocarbon.  It’s just a variation on any number of oil based cleaners. That’s why you’ve never had a problem with it removing the oxidised layer of aluminium.

What actually happens to something that has been disposed of responsibly?

Depending where you are it’ll either go back to a refinery and be diluted into the crude tank for reprocessing. Or burnt as fuel in a power station.