Digital SLR question

Yeah wot Graham said about creepy trees. That’s it!

Earlier, you dismissed the selective use of Depth of Field. Which is a photographic feature that is manipulated to aid in the creation of an image the photographer wants to produce.

this is a particular coincidence where an artifact of optics simulates visual attention, but it’s such old hat that it would be shocking to try to pass it off as creativity when it conforms so solidly to convention. Yes, it’s an available tool, nothing more, and risks crowbarring the viewer’s attention.

how are your photoshop skills progressing SB?

Yes, it’s an available tool, nothing more, and risks crowbarring the viewer’s attention.

But that’s the whole point, not a risk!

If you are merely trying to make a record of what you see to look at later then your point stands.

If you are trying to go beyond that into the realms of art or creativity in any way, then it doesn’t.

how are your photoshop skills progressing SB?

mixed review. I’ve got used to the tedious multiple confirmations and I love the spot heal tool for removing blemishes, but for instance, going back to Paintshop Pro it’s such a relief to be able to right click to select the source for the clone tool instead of having to locate the ALT key. Photoshop insists on using far more RAM that the limit I’ve set it, even when there are no files loaded (like 3.5GB!) and every now and then it just stops working with the cursor stuck on some tool or other but not doing anything useful, or it’ll complain about being about to overwrite a file that does not exist, and if it loses mouse focus, the first time you click back onto it, nothing happens, it just selects the window, and you have to click again to do whatever it was you wanted. A great program limited by a crappy interface and careless implementation.

But that’s the whole point, not a risk!

what I mean is, if the subject is sufficiently compelling people won’t look at the background anyway, and forcing it out of focus is a photographic conceit. It was creative 150 years ago, now it’s just same old same old.

Also consider these two images by a well-known amateur photographer that depict the same composition with two different exposure settings:

1/200s, f/7.1, ISO400

1/6s, f/20, ISO100

In the first he has frozen the action to capture the detail of the individual water droplets, whereas in the second he allows the water to blur to convey the continuous motion of the rapids.

So the two images manage to convey different things, neither simply reflects what the scene actually looked like, and the difference is purely down to altering the camera controls 😀

maybe complain to adobe they do listen to customers.

it’s such a relief to be able to right click to select the source for the clone tool instead of having to locate the ALT key.

you can assign any key to a shortcut/modifier key, i set up my wacom pen so add point/delete point are on the rocker switch. no need to touch alt/ctrl.

photoshop will use all available ram because it’s faster than a scratch disk.
try turning openGL off, reducing the history states and cache this will help speed things up (i’m on mac dunno if this is the same for pc)

but it’s such old hat that it would be shocking to try to pass it off as creativity when it conforms so solidly to convention

You might as well say ‘paint is just a convention’ when talking about art. Yes, it’s traditional, but it’s what you DO with it that counts.

Likewise DOF and all the other effects you can deploy. It’s not the effect itself that you’re presenting to the viewer – it’s your USE of that effect to convey a thought.

You are showing that you REALLY don’t understand the concept of art. I don’t either, but at least I know that and try to learn 🙂

this is a particular coincidence where an artifact of optics simulates visual attention, but it’s such old hat that it would be shocking to try to pass it off as creativity when it conforms so solidly to convention. Yes, it’s an available tool, nothing more, and risks crowbarring the viewer’s attention.

As I said before when you create a photograph you throw away huge dimensions of information, including depth.

You rob your viewer of the ability to refocus on different parts of the image and the ability to judge depth by binocular vision.

Therefore it is your responsibility to select a suitable focus for them and ensure that you provide other depth cues if you require them for your composition.

Alternatively…. get yourself the new Adobe Plenoptic Lens that lets you select focus after you take the picture[/url], then rig up a video display which tracks your eye movements and automatically re-focuses the image on the bit you are looking at. Might cost a bit though 😀

You are showing that you REALLY don’t understand the concept of art.

you are showing you have no idea what I think is all 🙂 This is normal.

you can assign any key to a shortcut/modifier key, i set up my wacom pen so add point/delete point are on the rocker switch. no need to touch alt/ctrl.

ooh, thanks, I’ll try that!

photoshop will use all available ram because it’s faster than a scratch disk.

except it has a setting to tell it the maximum amount of RAM to use, which it ignores, and 3.5GB to hold zero files is excessive, particularly when I spend less than 1% of my postprocessing time loading images and I’d like that RAM for other stuff I’m doing 🙁

Molgrips, yep, agreed.

You rob your viewer of the ability to refocus on different parts of the image and the ability to judge depth by binocular vision.

good point! I’d been thinking about that but forgotten 🙂

Personally I only use manual because I can decide on the image I want to take and take it, and secondly once I decide on a particular setting, usually sutter speed, I then only have to worry about one control, making life a lot easier. I don’t think there is anything wrong with using fully auto as a viewer of the photo I niether know or want to know how it was taken, as a photographer I am often interested though.
I don’t particularly like photos that have had too much PS editing and make them look unrealistic, creativity from the camera is another thing.
From the two pictures from Elfin, the TT picture has too much movement for my tastes, I’d like to see at least a small area being clearly defined, the eyes or face for example.
The track photo is quite beautiful, not just as an image, but also it is a quite difficult image to take from a technical point of view. How many pictures were rejected from that shoot????

My two-penneth.

you are showing you have no idea what I think is all This is normal.

I’m really trying hard to figure it out mate. You are doing a terrible job getting your point across, since none of seem to be able to work it out.

and secondly once I decide on a particular setting, usually sutter speed, I then only have to worry about one control

Is that not priority mode?

In the first he has frozen the action to capture the detail of the individual water droplets, whereas in the second he allows the water to blur to convey the continuous motion of the rapids.

but the eye can do either too – you can choose to track the water movement and see the droplets or widen your attention to see the bulk flow 🙂

And I didn’t mean that settings were irrelevant, only that they don’t need to be elevated to some hallowed, faux creative status

You are doing a terrible job getting your point across, since none of seem to be able to work it out.

my working hypothesis is that they’re speed reading or fondling themselves…

my working hypothesis is that they’re speed reading or fondling themselves…

Mine is that you can’t communicate and are unable to read our reactions and react appropriately!

Is that not priority mode?

I assume the “M” signifies manual, I might be wrong though, but when I take a series of photos I don’t want to be pi55ing around with two buttons for every shot. Slow shutter speed, lots of blur and the apeture I want, then the sun disappears behind a cloud, what do I do? Change everything or just one setting?

Two buttons?

S means shutter priority meaning that you think ‘right I want to take this at 1/800s’ so you set that, and the camera keeps that shutter speed and adjusts everything else to get the exposure ok, thereby compensating for the sun going in etc.

Two buttons?

Buttons, dials whatever you want, one for shutter speed and the second for aperture, two!

My camera doesn’t have “S”. But what does the “M” mean then?

And I didn’t mean that settings were irrelevant, only that they don’t need to be elevated to some hallowed, faux creative status

And I think that they are as integral part of the creative process as composition is.

If you compose well but get the exposure all wrong then the image simply will not convey what you want it to. If you compose terribly with perfect exposure then you’ll have a technically competent but uninteresting picture.

Both composition and exposure involve creative decisions that alter your final image, as I’ve just shown you with your very own photos!

Right.. if you use M you need to adjust twice – aperture and shutter. If you use one of the priority modes then you only need one adjustment…

What camera is it? P, S, A and M are pretty much a convention I think.

My camera doesn’t have “S”. But what does the “M” mean then?

P = Program
A = Aperture priority (you set aperture size, camera selects shutter speed)
S = Shutter priority (you set shutter speed, camera selects aperture)
M = Manual (you set shutter speed and aperture)

(Canon use “Av” for aperture and “Tv” for shutter “Time”)

Then, in addition, the running man thing is sport setting, which favours high speed shutter but isn’t as rigid as S mode.. and so on. the woman in the hat I am guessing is portrait – presumably favouring narrow DOF?

EOS10d and EOS20d. But by using a priority mode you’re restricting my creativity. The sun is just one parameter, maybe from the above scenario I decide the pictures have too much blur and I want a faster shutter speed, I only need one control. There are times when multiple cahnges are needed, not a problem. Manual is, for me, much simpler and much easier to control the camera. Next purchase, hopefully will be an EOS5d MkII with non of this auto rubbish.

Then, in addition, the running man thing is sport setting, which favours high speed shutter but isn’t as rigid as S mode.. and so on. the woman in the hat I am guessing is portrait – presumably favouring narrow DOF?

Yep, “scene modes”. Basically like the “green square auto” but you give the camera a bit of a hint about the kind of picture you are trying to take.

But by using a priority mode you’re restricting my creativity.

Not really – the same thing can be achieved unless you are going for a really wild exposure.

Both composition and exposure involve creative decisions

I’m disputing the adjective “creative” for exposure as I think it’s just a technical detail to choose the compromise which captures the detail you want, in the same way you might select a particular paintbrush. Composition can be creative.

as I’ve just shown you with your very own photos!

but I was just snapping, not being creative.

The track photo is quite beautiful, not just as an image, but also it is a quite difficult image to take from a technical point of view. How many pictures were rejected from that shoot????

He’s on film, so I doubt it was many, if any at all…..

From the two pictures from Elfin, the TT picture has too much movement for my tastes, I’d like to see at least a small area being clearly defined, the eyes or face for example.

Ahh. You might like this, then? 🙂

[/url]
103[/url] by PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

I’m disputing the adjective “creative” for exposure as I think it’s just a technical detail to choose the compromise which captures the detail you want, in the same way you might select a particular paintbrush. Composition can be creative.

Yes but choosing “the compromise which captures the detail you want” is a creative decision!! You creatively decide what details go in your creation and what details are irrelevant and distract from it.

I was just snapping, not being creative

No comment 😈

Composition is Art, Photography is science.

Use cameras as you want to, they are just a means to an end.

GrahamS – Member

But by using a priority mode you’re restricting my creativity.

Not really – the same thing can be achieved unless you are going for a really wild exposure.

Of course it’s restricting, you’re only allowing me to move on one axis. Fix SSpeed and I can only play with aperture, fix aperture and I can only play with SSpeed. Fully manual and I can do what I want, when I want.

I hate those mode dials as they always manage to turn accidentally 🙁
Now I have:

where you have to hold down the mode button and spin the wheel, which is far less prone to nudging 🙂

The track photo is quite beautiful,

there’s something awry there either in exposure developing or printing.
it looks muddy so maybe under exposed and there is an area of overexposure running along the top of the frame so either lack of agitation when in the tank or a reflection off the baseboard mask when printing. it certainly doesn’t look like everything was 100% spot on in the process from exposure to print.

Ahh. You might like this, then?

sorry, rider too ugly 🙁

Yes but choosing “the compromise which captures the detail you want” is a creative decision!!

at the same level as choosing the contrast on your TV allows you to join hands with the director…

or if you like, set the camera on “bracket” and select the best rendering later…

Nice, but I prefer this, though, PP. 😉

Of course it’s restricting, you’re only allowing me to move on one axis. Fix SSpeed and I can only play with aperture, fix aperture and I can only play with SSpeed.

But you just said you “don’t want to be pi55ing around with two buttons for every shot” – which means you have to fix one?

Anyway it’s not true. I shoot Aperture priority most of the time.

I choose the overall exposure I want using the exposure compensation (e.g. I want this to be dark so I’ll dial down two stops (-2EV) from the normal exposure)

Then I am free to change the aperture as I like and the camera will balance the shutter speed to ensure I get the same overall exposure.