Molgrips – you have admitted to consuming huge amounts of sugar a week

Doesn't make what I said untrue though.

Sports drinks are maltodextrin, not sugar. Quite different. And a different effect on the brain too.

But you won't listen to me, will you? 🙂

but if one lot says have 5 pieces of fruit a day and the other says don't have any, how do we choose ?

Ah, but I think you're introducing different requirements there.

IIRC, the 5-a-day campaign was not aimed specifically at weightloss, and if I'm not mistaken, iDave has kindly giving advice that would seem to be of some use to a few on here, seeking to control/understand/reduce their weight.

Reading this thread, what has interested me, amongst other things, is the use of the word Diet

My definition of Diet is what I eat to live, and not a temporary feeding regime in order to hit a target weight. It may seem as a small distinction, but am important one, I feel.

🙂

S

Maltodextrin is suger – a mix of different ones. What do you think it is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltodextrin

what can be more important than feeding yourself properly ?
but nobody knows what that is…

Thing is, there are loads of ways to feed yourself properly, same as there are loads of ways of earning a living. What you've got to do is understand how your body works, listen to it, and then understand food.

Be your own nutritionist, it's not so difficult.

PS 5-a day was dreamt up so everyone could understand it. Should be obvious that some fruit and veg is much better for you than others, and those are the ones you would be better off eating.

2 oranges, 2 apples and some lettuce is going to do nothing for you. A portion each of broccoli, beans, cabbage, peas and tomatoes is much better – for example.

Sigh.

TJ, what's the first line in that article you linked to?

Maltodextrin is a polysaccharide.

Sports drinks are maltodextrin, not sugar. Quite different. And a different effect on the brain too.

I always thought sports drinks are usually maltodextrin and glucose.

Kev

are usually maltodextrin and glucose.

and of course maltodextrin cannot pass into the blood stream till it has been broken down into er, glucose 🙂

What you've got to do is understand how your body works

actually, you don't, it's designed to be automatic 🙂

IIRC, the 5-a-day campaign was not aimed specifically at weightloss, and if I'm not mistaken, iDave has kindly giving advice that would seem to be of some use to a few on here, seeking to control/understand/reduce their weight.

but it's no good losing weight if all your teeth fall out 🙁

Most effective way to loose weight is actually really simple. Just eat one dog dirt sandwich a day just before you go to bed. You are guaranteed to loose weight. You breath will smell though.

I always thought sports drinks are usually maltodextrin and glucose.

I buy 5kg pure maltodextrin in a tub. Trust me, it's not glucose.

actually, you don't, it's designed to be automatic

a) it's not designed at all
b) it's evolved to benefit from certain imperatives which are no longer relevant. Ie, fill your face at every opportunity.

Thing is, there are loads of ways to feed yourself properly, same as there are loads of ways of earning a living. What you've got to do is understand how your body works, listen to it, and then understand food.

Be your own nutritionist, it's not so difficult.

Very good, but for some, the message has been lost, or drowned-out by the huge marketing efforts of companies offering convinience, taste, etc, etc.

And so for these people, choosing the right food can be difficult, hence campaignes like the 5-a-day.

Guess it comes down to education and an ability to understand what works for you, within sensible parameters.

imo, iDave has offered some sensible parameters/advice. Try it, don't try it. Sup to you.

I especially like the reference to exercise too.

😉

S

Keva- usually maltodextrin and fructose but sometimes glucose or other sugars and sometimes just maltodextrin.

Maltodextrin is a mix of diffeent lengths of glucose polymers – hence polysaccharides. Maltodextrin varies from 3 – 19glucose units in length.

Do yourself a favour Molgrips – read up on this stuff.

I buy 5kg pure maltodextrin in a tub. Trust me, it's not glucose.

wiki: "Maltodextrin consists of D-glucose units connected in chains of variable length. The glucose units are primarily linked with ?(1?4) glycosidic bonds. Maltodextrin is typically composed of a mixture of chains that vary from three to nineteen glucose units long"

these molecules are too long to pass through the intestine walls and have to be chopped down into glucose to be absorbed. The advantage is the slow release compared to the blood sugar level spike obtained from eating pure sugar or glucose.

oh, and does that mean we shouldn't trust anything else you say either ?

LoL @
Most effective way to loose weight is actually really simple. Just eat one dog dirt sandwich a day just before you go to bed. You are guaranteed to loose weight. You breath will smell though.

Its DogDirt sandwiches all-round. Excellent 😉

but it's no good losing weight if all your teeth fall out

Yeah, possibly, but my dentist told me to ease off the fruit (I like the citrus stuff) as it was causing tooth enamel errosion.

Eat fruit = No teeth
Don't eat Fruit = No teeth

Aarrgh !, I can't win…. 😀

😉

S

iDave has offered some sensible parameters/advice

I find all this quite interesting after exhaustive efforts to change my other half's eating habits and I also spent many years attempting to adhere to a strict I-tal diet..

It's just a shame that iDave had to be so damned offensive cos it's gonna throw a shadow on his opinion..

Eat fruit = No teeth
Don't eat Fruit = No teeth

exactly 🙁
since no one really knows you might as well just eat nice stuff which makes you happy – but not too much…

SFB – there is also a lot of debate about how high GI maltodextrin is – most sources have it as high GI some as high as pure glucose

The problem is you don't know how long the chains are and how strong the bonds between them as it is not a single chemical but a mix. Get glucose yo have a pure single chemical. get maltodextrin you don't know what you are getting.

most sources have it as high GI some as high as pure glucose

wow, I didn't know that! So it's even more snake oil ??

there is also a lot of debate about how high GI maltodextrin is

debate ? One might have supposed this were open to measurement 🙂

SFB – its because its a mix of stuff. It can be measured but you need to know what is in your suppliers batch

from that wiki link

Maltodextrins are classified by DE (dextrose equivalent) and have a DE between 3 to 20. (The higher the DE value, the shorter the glucose chains, the higher the sweetness and the higher the solubility.) Above DE 20, the European Union's CN code calls it glucose syrup, at DE 10 or lower the customs CN code nomenclature classifies maltodextrins as dextrins.

exactly
since no one really knows you might as well just eat nice stuff which makes you happy – but not too much…

Well, teeth or no, some people think they'd like to weigh a little less, and a good bit of sensible advice might just help them.

It's just a shame that iDave had to be so damned offensive cos it's gonna throw a shadow on his opinion..

Yunki.

Well, I can't say that I've encoutered iDave on here before, but as I read it, he/she is probably a bit tired of answering the same old Qs, and even I'd be a little irritated by contributors not reading the thread properly. Which is why I've overlooked the points you make and just made note of the info I feel is useful.
🙂

And by the way, I know where you're coming from about the "other-half".
Mine seems to have been blessed with the ability to eat whatever she likes, in the knowledge that she'll never get heavy.
And she does, without gaining weight !.
As a consequence, the fridge has things in it that temp me terribly.
Things I know dont' work for me.
It aint easy out-there.
Hence why I'm hearing/reading the have one day when you eat what you want to
😉

S

Its GI is usually higher than glucose. But that is a good thing because it is a sports drink. You only drink it when you are exercising.

If I am exercising and my calorie expenditure is say 65% fat and 35% carbs, then in a few hours I'll deplete my carb stores. This will then stimulate my appetite, so I'll eat to replenish them. If I take carbs whilst riding to cover that 35%, then I'll have burned the fat but not depleted by carb stores as much, so I won't be so hungry when I get home. I'll also be able to ride for longer since I'm taking more carbs along with me both in my muscles/liver and my camelbak. So I can ride harder for say 5 hours than I would be able to without and burn more fat.

If I didn't supplement with carbs, depleted my carb stores and then forced myself not to eat to refil them, despite the hunger, then I'll a) feel rubbish and b) be in crap shape for my next ride in the following day or two.

It's worth noting that you can only absorb so much carbs per hour. So this is the maximum I will take with me – I don't always take that max tho. This is one reason recovery drink can be useful – you can get those extra carbs to replenish your supplies.

Of course there are other ways of getting carbs. You can replace recovery drink with something else fairly easily, but it has been shown that the insulin spike from something high GI post-ride helps restore muscle glycogen quickly. You can also eat normal food when riding if you like – this works, but the harder something is to digest the more blood is required by your guts so the less is available for your muscles. So you want something as easy as possible to digest ie high GI. Which is one reason why maltodextrin is popular.

You could drink glucose whilst riding, but it can irritate the stomach and the sweetness would probably make you gag. Maltodextrin doesn't taste sweet (or of anything much). This means that it doesn't press any of the sweetness buttons in your brain which could be the root of the sweetness addictions/cravings that people've mentioned on here.

Another advantage of carb supplementation is that it's pure carbs. If you say sandwiches on your ride you get some carbs but also some fat and other stuff, which you don't need. So for the same amount of carbs, which your body will be wanting, you'll get more calories.

Over the years I've become quite sensitive to the way my body feels when carb stores are high or low, and I manage this. I aim to run at a slight carb deficit, but not too much otherwise I'll get into trouble.

So you see, I'm aiming to find what works for me, my body, my brain and my riding patterns.

Molgrips – there is so much utter tripe in that I don't know where to begin. I'll just point out

If I am exercising and my calorie expenditure is say 65% fat and 35% carbs

😯 I have no idea what you are trying to say – your energy expenditure will be in calories or kilojules. and your metablism simply does not work like you seem to think it does

If I didn't supplement with carbs, depleted my carb stores and then forced myself not to eat to refil them, despite the hunger, then I'll a) feel rubbish and b) be in crap shape for my next ride in the following day or two.

You could always just eat some normal food giving you a nice mix of low medium and high gi stuff before and during

You really are fooling yourself adn you are storing up serious health problems for yourself in the future.

What % of your daily calorie intake are you having in sugers / maltodextrin?

Anyway – you clearly thing you know best and that your somewhat odd ideas and incorrect basic science are right so I will leave you too it.

I have no idea what you are trying to say – your energy expenditure will be in calories or kilojules. and your metablism simply does not work like you seem to think it does

Honestly do you really have no idea what he's trying to say?
It's pretty clear to me, and I'd suggest that if you have no idea what he's trying to say, you're not a position to comment on the correctness of it 🙂

If I am exercising and my calorie expenditure is say 65% fat and 35% carbs

Its gobbledegook. Basic physiology.

I have no idea what you are trying to say – your energy expenditure will be in calories or kilojules. and your metablism simply does not work like you seem to think it does

Right, well you burn energy in one of three ways (whilst riding I think.. there maybe more than three someone please fill me in)

PC cycle – for short sprints
Carb burning – for higher intensity
Fat burning – for lower intensity.

You can burn a certain amount of fat to produce a certain amount of energy – if you need more than this then you start burning carbs on top of the fat. So a certain percentage of your energy expenditure is being met by fat burning, and a certain percentage by carb burning. The harder you exercise the greater percentage of your energy needs are being met by carbs.

This really is very basic phisiology (and I'm sure my understanding is greatly simplified). You really don't know much, TJ, honestly. Every coach out there knows this stuff.

You could always just eat some normal food giving you a nice mix of low medium and high gi stuff before and during

I explained in my post why this wasn't ideal.

So tell me, why do you think maltodextrin is bad?

Its GI is usually higher than glucose

since all other starches and sugars are broken down into glucose and fructose I don't believe a GI above 100 (=glucose) is possible…

It can be measured but you need to know what is in your suppliers batch

you won't catch me eating that crap when I can have yummy hot cross buns or chocolate muffins with the same effect 🙂

You are right Barnes, there seems to be two scales – one on which sugar is 100 and one which useses glucose as the 100. So maltodextrin has a higher index than sugar which explains why I'd read the number 140.. but similar to glucose yes.

but similar to glucose yes.

well it would be as that's what it turns into 🙂

I'll turn YOU into glucose you smug git.

Oh wait.. I wasn't supposed to hand out threats was I? 🙂

Mars bars is the answer to all these points – loaded with maltodextrin so great for providing energy when riding.

And if you eat 6 per day and nothing else you will lose weight.

HTH 😀

I'll turn YOU into glucose you smug git.

I also contain protein :o)

Like a protein bubble?
🙂

Oh wait.. I wasn't supposed to hand out threats was I?

that's OK, it was cathartic and I didn't believe you 🙂

Oh shit – I said on the other thread I wouldn't debate this further but before I read the post.

I think maltodextrin has its place – but in the quantities you take it in and using it instead of other sources of carbs will give you insulin spikes and sugar crashes. It is linked with diabetes and obesity. I simnplyu think you are taking far too much of it and getting far too large a % of your calories.

As for metabolism. I don't recognise what you say at all.

You can burn a certain amount of fat to produce a certain amount of energy – if you need more than this then you start burning carbs on top of the fat. So a certain percentage of your energy expenditure is being met by fat burning, and a certain percentage by carb burning. The harder you exercise the greater percentage of your energy needs are being met by carbs.

Is very disputed ( at best – I believe it is utter bunkum). Often spouted but with no real evidence. Length of time of the exercise, blood sugar levels, oxygen uptake and a multitude of other factors effect this as well.

Have a look at Krebs cycle and related areas. I have ( years ago) studied this stuff to a reasonably high level from the point of view of Human physiology and biology if not from the sports point of view,

using it instead of other sources of carbs will give you insulin spikes and sugar crashes

That stuff doesn't apply when riding. The drink is sipped gradually and the stuff is consumed by your muscles, so no spikes.

Is very disputed ( at best – I believe it is utter bunkum)

I'm all ears – seriously. If I'm wrong about this I want to know! As I am sure does my coach and a lot of other people..

Of course, I was being extremely general above, but I believe the basics are correct and they seem to be borne out as I ride.

Also let me point out that I lost a lot of weight successfully in my first year of training WHILST I was taking the carbs. Nowadays my problem is consistency of training.

Molgrips – the only thing I can suggest is you learn some basic human physiology so you have the knowledge to debunk myths yourself. There is a huge amount of mythology around diet and exercise.

a quick google for fat burning zone myth gave me this amongst others
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-fitness/2009/03/03/the-fat-burning-zone-a-fitness-myth-debunked

And on that I really am not going to get involved further

I don't read the myths.

My interest in this started when I signed up to train with Matt Hart, the chap who writes in the mag.

First PARAGRAPH of that explanation:

While it is true that a higher proportion of calories burned during low-intensity exercise come from fat (about 60 percent as opposed to approximately 35 percent from high-intensity programs)

That's what I said. I wasn't proclaming any magic weight loss plan.

😆

TJ, out of interest, what qualification in Human Physiology do you have?