[Closed] Dear School-runners (a mini-rant)

the parents who drop off at my kids school are on the whole pretty good, everyone parks down in a little carpark and not outside the school. it is chorlton so its obviously all very civil, the exception is a couple of knobs that park as close as possible to the school and spoile it for everyone else.....wish bad things on the

Why not just ban schools?

It has been alluded to before, i think the key factor in this is the laziness of people. People are bone idle, probably the same people who ride round on a shop mobility scooter cos they're too lazy to walk round morrisons for 20 minutes.

People are bone idle, and have been whipped up into paedoparanoia by the media. It's not safe to let little Hermione walk the eight feet from house to school unsupervised "these days", there's a nonce on every corner.

TBH it's not the hundreds of nonces we obviously have in the Shires that worry me, it's the herberts who think the 30mph limit though the village doesnt apply to them, esp at school start/end. I wonder if we can get one of those temporary flashing 20mph signs for the road outside the school liek they do in the next village over - *wonders how easy is it to dig up road signs and relocate...*

Fortunately stoner Jr and I ride to school most days, but he's some way off being safe to be left to do it on his own, he's only five 😉

There is a kid (8 or 9 I think) who rides down the B road to school every day in all weathers. Fair play to him.

[quote=SamCooke said]Oh dear... You're one of those people
what does my homosexuality have to do with any of this?

Well your bright pink RAV4 distracts other drivers.

There's a bike lane Crouch End, it's separated from the road by an unbroken line and has a plate qualifying its hours of operation (8.30 - 9.30).

There's a family who pull in to the bike lane to drop their children off. Yesterday they actually pulled in in front of me, stopped diagonally across the lane, completely blocking my way. The doors opened.

I was able to explain to the driver that you must not cross an unbroken line and that he was breaking the law by entering the bike lane during its hours of operation. He tried not to listen. His child tried to shut the door that I was speaking to him through.

God knows how, but I didn't lose my temper. I very calmly repeated that he was parking in a bike lane.

Two months ago (same bike lane) a panda car was parked in the lane. Between then and now pizza delivery moped things (nasty, buzzy, smelly things they are) were parked perpendicular to the kerb. It is regularly used by UPS and the other delivery people to park while delivering (got their hazards on - makes it ok). There was a traffic warden. I asked him to book the driver. He said; "It's ok, he's delivering". I said: "No, it isn't ok. He's breaking the law being in a bike lane marked by blah blah during its hours of operation". Traffic warden just looked blank and refused to ticket.

Why f8888cking well bother with them then?????????

These are probably the same mouth-breathers who will then go "bloody cyclists, why don't they use the cycle lanes?!"

Why f8888cking well bother with them then?

Usually to justify road budget and meet "cycling provision" targets.

I do the school run for my two oldest two days per week. Round the front of the school is absolute carnage. Round the back of the school there are single yellow lines for which the school issues permits that allow you to park there while you're dropping kids off. Hardly anyone uses the rear of school option, so there is no problem getting a space - there is also a side gate to the school which means you are actually closer to where the kids line up. This is Tollcross in Edinburgh - so pretty close to being in the middle of a city.

My local primary has asked my wife, on several occasions, not to cycle into the school car park for 'safety reasons'.

Apparently it's safer for a 6 year old, a 3 year old and my wife (with trailer on tow containing 2 year old) to dismount on the road outside the gate which contains around 400 XC90s piloted by myopics fearing they are 5 seconds late so simply have to screech in at 40 mph.

At my nephew's school the headmaster wrote letters to all the parents asking them to walk their children to school if they lived upto 1 mile away.
The 4x4 Chelsea tractor ladies of Cheshire who are only a road or 2 away drive and the other children all walk. My nephew has a scooter which he uses most days in all weathers and he lives 2 miles away.

Why oh why do the parents insist on leaving their car engines running even in the summer?

My local primary has asked my wife, on several occasions, not to cycle into the school car park for 'safety reasons'.

Bunnyhop - the school writes one of those letters every other week. Its exactly the same here. It completely polarises people. Most walk/cycle/scoot round.

Then there are the absolutely typical 4x4 drivers who genuinely seem to have lost the use of their legs. They'd never dream of walking. They drive like maniacs, park millimetres from the gate, possibly diaganolly across the pavement, and frankly couldn't care less if they ran 10 kids over in the process

Its a cliche, but for a very good reason - all 4x4 drivers are just utter selfish ****s!!!!

I think whoever asked her that needs a slap and to be told to contact all the driving school run fraternity and tell them not to be such absolute asshats whilst dropping off their kids for "safety reasons"

That'd be the headmaster 😀

She's furious, but won't let me enter a reasoned debate for fear of reflection on the boys. As he's a big enough asshat to come up with that 'rule' I wouldn't put it past him. Even tried to explain it as a county council policy, which a quick email found wasn't the case.
I was only going to offer him the opportunity to read the CC sustainable school transport policy.. they don't even have a cycle rack. Ridiculous really but I'll raise more subtle points like that I think rather than get too conforntational. In the meantime I just ignore it and give a cheery wave - he hasn't said a word to me mysteriously.

That's just crap, brassneck.
Jr's headmistress thinks his cycling to school is brilliant and loves it when Ive also got junior jr in the trailer. Maybe that's why she thinks it's an excellent idea to take Jr out of school early to go and watch Le Tour this weekend 😉

Why oh why do the parents insist on leaving their car engines running even in the summer?

To keep the aircon running.

Do kids ever get dropped off in 2 wheel drive cars ?

all 4x4 drivers are just utter selfish *s

Learning from the Wiggins school of diplomacy there!

This thread is just evidence the whole world is full of selfish *s. You could have the same rant about lazy gits who park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket, or cyclists who chain their bikes to railings in awkward places. The list is endless.

Everyone appears to be selfish becuase inhernetly we are all selfish and when someone does something that doesn't comply with our own narrow selfish world view we get all mad.

This thread is a glorious example of this pomposity.

Shouldn't be allowed to breed.

*reports jfletch*

jfletch - Member

all 4x4 drivers are just utter selfish *s

Learning from the Wiggins school of diplomacy there!

This thread is just evidence the whole world is full of selfish *s. You could have the same rant about lazy gits who park in the parent and child spaces at the supermarket, or cyclists who chain their bikes to railings in awkward places. The list is endless.

Everyone appears to be selfish becuase inhernetly we are all selfish and when someone does something that doesn't comply with our own narrow selfish world view we get all mad.

This thread is a glorious example of this pomposity.

Most parents seem to be selfish when taking there kids to/from school be it walking or using the car

How does one walk selfishly?

Once, threads like this used to amuse me. I recall, quite vividly, a particular rant of binners' (when he used to indulge in such things) about the school-run behavious in Chorlton.

From September Baby North will be attending the playschool at one of the local primary schools.

I have never passed through the village at drop-off/collection time, but I can only imagine the carnage that must take place each morning.

So, on the rare occasions I'll take her, you can bet we'll be going by bike. And taking our lives into our own hands as a result....

It all started when people got the choice of which school their kids go to. Back in my day we walked (unsupervised) to the [b]nearest[/b] primary school and got a school bus (unsupervised) to the [b]nearest[/b] secondary school because it was 4 miles away.

Of course paedophiles and murderers hadn't been invented back then....

Round our way the volume of cars at drop-off/pick-up times seems to be exacerbated by the numbers of parents who:

a) Move into school APR to get nipper into school
b) Move out of school APR once nipper is in school
c) Rely on sibling rules regarding school admissions to allow future nippers to join elder nipper's school without requiring residency within APR

End result =
a) lots of parents living out in the 'burbs driving their cars in to drop their kids off at schools they morally shouldn't be able to go to
b) creating traffic chaos for local residents
c) preventing children who live closer to school from attending

One positive aspect is that it puts car commuters off from using the rat runs near the school 😉

Back in my day we walked (unsupervised) to the nearest primary school and got a school bus (unsupervised) to the nearest secondary school because it was 4 miles away.

Tick!

About a mile to primary school, usually taking the route across the wasteground/woods that involved jumping over the river. Same route home with time to play on the rope swing or build dams.

Bus to Secondary School (about 2 mile) or walk if we missed it or the weather was nice.

School's just broken up here, the commute is unbelievably quiet and for once faster by car.

I got abused on the school run this morning. Decided to drop my daughter off on the way to work (a rare thing in itself), and about a half mile from school so she can walk the rest, and avoiding the school run mania.

I pulled up across someone's drive, and just as I did the mother and junior-school daughter appeared out of th efront door. Given I was stopped for approx 20 seconds whils my daughter got out of the car and closed the door:
Mother appears out of front door and gives me a look.
She then runs to car, jumps in a starts up before daughter gets in.
Slams car in reverse as daughter gets in with hand on horn.
Reverses upto 3ft away from my car as my daughter jumps out of the way.
Hangs out of her car door f-ing and blinding (in front of both our kids and others walking past) saying she's got to get to work.
I pull forward and let her out.

Total delay time approx 5 seconds.

I gave her a nice wave and get the bird in return. I was fuming all the way to work, but in retrospect I find it both quite amusing and shockingly depressing that someone else is starting their day as aggresively as that. I just hope she doesn't have a customer-facing job.

If it wasn't fr the fact my daughter had already opened her door, I would have pulled forward anyway.

I'm afraid I have some sympathy for your abuser. I live (in a house provided for me by my employer - wouldn't choose the location otherwise) directly opposite a primary school on a little lane in a village. Over the years the number of selfish twonks who think it's acceptable to park across our drive and in many cases leave their car and go into the school has meant we (wife and I) have become pretty militant about all "offenders" no matter how minor. It does not bother me too much as I'm normally at work during the worst of it but my wife cops it every day on her way out on the way to work. I've occasionally got my timing wrong and tried to come home at the end of the primary school day and every time been blocked from my own drive by some asshat.

I've only once got proper annoyed and deliberately blocked them in when it was the same repeat offender abandoning their car across our drive then "lost my keys" for a few hours. She sent her husband around in the end (from where they live about 750m away the lazy ****ers) to "help me to find them". Turns out he liked to dish it out but was not too keen on the return fire! Very puerile I know but it did get me a reputation of being a bit of a loose canon and our drive was left clear for a year or two! It's probably time to loose the plot again as the new parents haven't met "mental" Convert yet 😈

Parent and child places outside supermarkets. Theres another place that Finely demonstrates the utter thoughtlessness of some people. There are 2 of those spaces clearly marked outside our local Tesco's. I did roll my eyes the other day when I saw them occupied by a Mazda MX5 and a Porsche 911. Neither appeared to have child seats. To quote Bradley: ****s!!!

On the subject of which,

Why do parent + child spaces have to be right next to the entrance? Does giving birth stop your legs from working?

Why not just stick wide bays at the back of the car park? Then parents with children, larger vehicles and BMW drivers can all have the space they require without falling out with each other, and we help tackle childhood (and middle-management) obesity rates whilst we're at it.

Does giving birth stop your legs from working?

If you've given birth quite recently.. then yes!

Why not just stick wide bays at the back of the car park?

Have you ever tried walking across a supermarket car park? It's dangerous enough on your own. With a baby in one arm and a toddler running about in front it would be a death trap.

I think the general point is to avoid young children mingling with the traffic.

Put the spaces at the back of the car park if you like, but only if you also provide a sealed impact-proof tube from there to the front door!

What he said.

Oh dear... You're one of those people
what does my homosexuality have to do with any of this?

Have you ever tried walking across a supermarket car park? It's dangerous enough on your own.

The problem there is, you're walking [i]across[/i] the car park, rather than using the pedestrian walkways provided.

I think I'd rather encourage traffic calming and road awareness. If traffic is moving slowly and carefully, and pedestrians aren't milling round in the path of said traffic with their heads in their phones like iZombies, a supermarket car park should be a comparatively safe place.

Nothing that I could see, but you raised the issue. What does it have to do with any of this?

You'll find a detailed explanation [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour ]here[/url].

How did we all manage before the invention of p&c spaces?...I'm not sure they're directly aimed at the first few days after birth, though.

I used to have my twins on reins in supermarket car parks. It was like the start of the Iditarod Race when I went shopping.

With a baby in one arm and a toddler running about in front it would be a death trap.

[img] [/img]

I used to have my twins on reins in supermarket car parks.

I used to have reins when I was a kid, seems pretty sensible to me. Why did they fall out of favour?

These days it appears that the done thing is just to let your kids run feral and make their safety everyone else's problem.

You cannot open a door wide enough to get a child in a child seat in standard bays.

When you have kids you will understand why you have to.

As for pedestrian walkway the only one at the local tesco is from the parent parking on one side and the disabled on the other.

These days it appears that the done thing is just to let your kids run feral and make their safety everyone else's problem.

You cannot open a door wide enough to get a child in a child seat in standard bays.

That explains the need for wider bays (or smaller cars), not their location.

As for pedestrian walkway the only one at the local tesco is from the parent parking on one side and the disabled on the other.

I'd complain if I were you, that sounds dangerous.

no one made you live in accy

Good point, well made. I'm fairly sure that it's not exclusively a local phenomenon though.

These days it appears that the done thing is just to let your kids run feral and make their safety everyone else's problem.

Easy Tiger (see what I did there)

I dont think this is the case however when out on my evening run i had to run in the road because a car was parked on the pavement, not with 2 wheels on the pavement but completely on the pavement. Not because the road was narrow but because many motorist see the pavement outside their house as their private parking space and whilst I am big and ugly enough to negotiate these obstacles I can be a bit clumsy!
It is a serious issue for people less able or children who have to step into the road.
Anyway I digress. Child and parent spaces are a good idea and if they exist why locate a long way from the entrance.

1. Are you suggesting small children and the disabled are not the most vulnerable on the "road"? Perhaps you think they can walk the furthest?
2. I am kaesae feel my rage 😉 [ i dont shop there but it was the only place that sold nappy washing powder]
3. Anyone know a supermarket car park with walkways then? I cannot think of one but I dont go to many?

Very good (-:

Sounds like a good opportunity for a spot of scrambling practice to me.

I once saw a car stop straddling a pedestrian crossing. A couple of lads were crossing, opened the rear passenger door, went through it and out the other side.

if they exist why locate a long way from the entrance.

Because then they get also used by the bone idle, preventing their use by legitimate users who need them. Moving them further away would discourage that. A better question is, why not?

I'm not arguing against the need for P&C bays, I'm arguing that they don't need to be right next to the doors.

1) disabled bays aren't there because disabled drivers aren't 'vulnerable', they're there because they (often) have decreased mobility and can't comfortably walk as far.

2) I'm not feeling your rage, I don't know where it's been.

3) My local Tesco has a central walkway which runs the width of the car park from the doors.

Because then they get also used by the bone idle

Because they occasionally get used by the bone idle isnt a good reason to [s]remove[/s] [edit] relocate them.

Who said anything about removing them? Not me.

Who said anything about removing them? Not me.

New here?

Thou doth protest too much!

ah its one of those "debates"

Leaves

Put the spaces at the back of the car park if you like, but only if you also provide a sealed impact-proof tube from there to the front door!

Ooh yes, like at the shark zoo. And stingrays and shit.

How did we all manage before the invention of p&c spaces?

Weren't quite so many supermarkets or cars when I was a lad.

Have you considered that perhaps they were brought in as a response to young kids getting squashed in supermarket car parks?

These days it appears that the done thing is just to let your kids run feral

A two year old running about or not being entirely road safe isn't "feral" - that's just a two year old. Even the most perfectly behaved toddler is prone to moments of complete insanity. 😀

I believe I already suggested a solution to that.

I used to have reins when I was a kid, seems pretty sensible to me. Why did they fall out of favour?

If I had a well-behaved dog prone to moments of insanity in the middle of traffic, I'd have it on a goddamn lead.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly.

There is a problem that P&C spaces aren't always available in supermarkets. This is because they're placed in a premium position and so are an attractive proposition for selfish arseholes in big cars who a) can't be arsed to walk more than ten yards and b) need more space for a large vehicle / want more space so other arseholes don't ding them with their car doors out of stupidity or spite.

By putting the P&C spaces further back and providing a clearly marked pedestrian path from there to the supermarket (backed up by traffic calming), they're no longer such a prime target for the X5 crew. This frees up more spaces whilst providing a safe route in for people who are more than capable of walking an extra twenty yards.

If you can't safely control a kid for thirty yards in a car park without danger of them being killed to death then either they're not safe to be out of the house at all or you need to re-evaluate your parenting skills. If your kids have a tendency to run into traffic and you're not a fan of natural selection, use reins.

In seriousness, I've got my tongue fairly in my cheek when typing most of this, but joking aside I genuinely thought it was a good idea.

Two kids, wet, windy, cold and miserable, need to get from car to shop as quickly as possible

Are you soluble? Buy a brolly.

I do so love getting advice from those who do not have kids about what is best to do with kids.
Bookmark this page and re read it when you have kids.
We all thought like you , to some degree, before they arrived.
I dont think you will persuade a parent about parenting from your position tbh

Anything you would like me to tell you about computers as I am as well qualified in that area as you are in parenting.

FWIW my kids dont care if it rains and nor do i

I take your point, but the thrust of what I'm getting at isn't "how to raise your kids", it's "how to improve parking for everyone." Wouldn't you welcome more available parking spaces? As you rightly point out, I'm not qualified to advise on the finer points of child-rearing.

By putting the P&C spaces further back and providing a clearly marked pedestrian path from there to the supermarket

If they could deliver on the path (by sacrificing enough parking spaces to provide it) then that would work for me.

I suspect a mum pushing a trolley with one hand, a pushchair with the other, carrying a nappy bag, and holding some reins in her teeth, may still want a place near the door though. 🙂

The Police do **** all about stupid drivers parking anywhere to drop their offspring off, they would have a field day around near me with a high school and primary opposite each other,the amount of drivers parking on pavements and double yellows driving along on the phone ignoring painted roundabouts as though they don't exist, and parking on blind bends and not giving way when parked cars on their side of the road. 😈

Why would you be carrying bags when you've got a perfectly serviceable trolley right in front of you?

There's no helping the stupid.

I dont care as i dont shop in supermarkets much and taking your kids shopping is madness. They try to persuade you to buy anything with a pic of their favourite character on .....to their credit the organic Scooby Do tri colour pasta was OK and it was amusing eating ghosts...the Dalek biscuits were not so good.

I wish they would stop building all the new schools with the pedestrian access from pavement and bus stop through a staff car park.
Sets the subliminal message 'take the car'.
IMO, the bus should stop at the school front gate, bike shed should be next to main entrance and staff and visitors park round the back.
Lost track of how many 'eco' builds this seems to apply to - schools, offices, hospitals etc.

The closest nursery we could get our kid into is 5 miles away, and in back streets with no parking at all.

I could maybe cycle it but Mrs Grips can't.

I could maybe cycle it but Mrs Grips can't.

Aren't most good schools over subscribed these day?
Just make walking to school one of the entrance requirements.....

Aren't most good schools over subscribed these day?

Are you soluble? Buy a brolly.

Thanks, but i've got enough to carry as it is.

Why would you be carrying bags when you've got a perfectly serviceable trolley right in front of you?

There's no helping the stupid.

Ok, talk me through how this works with a toddling 2 year old and a one year old.

Seriously, from door through to returning the trolley

Sam - some of us did this with a new born, toddler and 3 year old.
We often chose to walk to the supermarket (nearly a mile) with double buggy and rucsacks for shopping. Most weeks it was one of us in car, and you could not park in the kids spot more often than not. So you just do it.

Well, I can see the Nike attitude to shopping might be attractive to some. However, things could be easier.

Ok, talk me through how this works with a toddling 2 year old and a one year old.

Seriously, from door through to returning the trolley

[url= http://www.tesco.com/groceries/ ]Linky[/url]

I've been told that people went shopping with young children even before supermarkets and second cars!

Ok, talk me through how this works with a toddling 2 year old and a one year old.

Seriously, from door through to returning the trolley

Must admit many of the posts on this thread ring a bell, the absolute worst bit of my commute is past a primary school, normally I'm early enough that there is no-one about but on occasional days when I'm late or coming home very early its no fun.

The school has a combination of yellow barriers, yellow bollards, signage about not killing children, indicative speed warning signs and creepy-as-hell concrete child statues lining the roadsides as well as a lollypop man, lights controlled crossing and speed bumps. Its also got a cycle lane in the road next to the main gate that forms the main link for a safe route avoiding two major roads into town. I should stress that despite the road safety kit its not a busy road outside of school hours

Unfortunately the school was expanded a couple of years back so the car park is now home to new classrooms, parents have responded by [s]making a concerted effort to walk the kids to school noting its a small primary with a limited catchment and parking only in designated bays in the local area[/s] putting their hazards on, parking on the pavement, parking in the cycle lane, reversing down the road at speed to grab a prime spot on the pavement by the gates, performing 37 point turns in traffic and generally acting like utter pr**ks. The really fun part is the combination of child safety barriers and other pavement features like the bollards with morons pulling into the cycle lane to drop off their kids - you can't do much other than slam on the brakes and hope as you can't go right (back end of 4x4/people carrier parked at an angle in way), can't go left (leering face of concrete kiddie and/or neon barrier) and straight ahead puts you into the passenger seat of the vehicle, fun times.

taking your kids shopping is madness

But leaving them at home on their own is frowned upon for some reason 😉

I wish they would stop building all the new schools with the pedestrian access from pavement and bus stop through a staff car park.

Here here. At my office there is NO pedestrian access, despite being well served by public transport. You can only access the door by walking up the ramp to the car park. Approaching on foot from the south (where all the bus stops are) you have to either walk around three sides of the building to the car park ramp or scramble over the fence.

We often chose to walk to the supermarket (nearly a mile)...

Do-able if you have a supermarket less than a mile away, have a rucksack big enough to fit the bi-monthly shop in it, and you are strong enough to carry a full trolley load on your back whilst pushing a pram and pulling a toddler.

Sadly that narrows the target audience to roughly 1 in 6 million (you) 😀

I've been told that people went shopping with young children even before supermarkets and second cars!

True. My mums generation used to leave all the babies outside in prams while they did their shopping! 😯

Cougar - P&C child spaces are at the front of supermarkets as the people who use them spend the most money. Ergo the supermarkets want to incentivise these people to shop at their store. It's just economics.

My fave was the Audi driver (worse than BMWs these days) who decided to use the last space at my tesco to sit and wait for his bimbo mrs. After waiting patiently for him to realise people did actually want use the space the look on his face when I knocked on his window and asked him to move screamed "I'm a massive bell".

As Bradley would say. ****s

*shows off the guns*

We were fortunate, but it is amazing how much you can fit under a double buggy and in a 65lt rucsac. For some reason though we kept wearing buggy wheels out... 😕

Thanks, but i've got enough to carry as it is.
...
Ok, talk me through how this works with a toddling 2 year old and a one year old.

Coats? Bags on the trolley hooks? Home delivery? Reins? Child seats in trolleys? Weekly shopping at weekends when there's two of you to share the load, or one to shop and one to childmind at home?

But really, it's not my place to be working out your practicalities here. Are you really arguing that you'd rather have unavailable P&C parking bays next to the store rather than available ones farther away?

Ok, talk me through how this works with a toddling 2 year old and a one year old.

Seriously, from door through to returning the trolley

Easy I do it once a week when I take my two, aged 3 and nearly 2 to Morrisons-it's their treat when it's pishing down and too wet to go to the playground.Morrison trolleys are two seaters.
1)Park car near trolley park if no Pand C spaces available.
2) Get trolley by inserting coin in slot.Return to car and apply trolley brake.
3)Put kids in trolley.Release brake and off we go

What's so hard about that?

+1 for Scooby Doo coloured pasta shapes

Scrolled back a bit. Re parent and child spaces, anyone been to Sainsburys in Farnham?

Loads of P&Cs all along the front of the shop, going away form the entrance. So they are not attractive to the lazy people being not right by the door, but there's tons of room and a dry walkway under the roof of the shop. And funnily enough, we found a space every time.

If it's such a huge problem manoeuvring all that baggage across a car park, how on earth do you fare in the store? Anyway.

he told you reins ...obviously he knows about how careful you need to be with reins and when they fall you need to be able to lift up as well to swing them away from danger and he can do this for two kids whilst steering the trolley through the carpark

I had reins and I don't appear to be dead. /shrug

But again, I take your point. I've no idea. I'm not a parent. But people seem to be focusing on taking my suggestion apart rather than really fielding it though. Would you not rather have to walk a bit farther if it meant that you actually got a dedicated parking space?

Playing devil's advocate, if I couldn't deal with two kids, I wouldn't have two kids. If by some twist of fate I suddenly found myself with them and thus supermarket shopping became a logistical nightmare, I'd order online and have a week's shop delivered on a Saturday afternoon.