Crashed into an out of control dog – what next?

I N R A T S but hope you heal up well Luke, and I think you are well within your rights to seek material and PI costs.

The dog owner bias in society is as strong as that of drivers. So many of them think they can do no wrong (not to mention those that hate cyclists).

According to the gov.com website linked earlier a dog which is dangerously out of control is one which has injured someone.  IANAL but I read this as the dog has physically attacked and injured someone rather than by way of causing an accident (in effect the dog did not act with intent).  We’ve had issues in nearby areas with out of control dogs (yep XL Bullys) and the police don’t want to know unless they’ve actually attacked someone (according the the curtain twitcher website).

Cycling Uk believe you could have a case, may be worth contacting them if you are intent of taking things further.  Based on reading the thread I think the dog owner pushing for vets bills is a direct consequence of you asking him for the replacement of damaged gear, I doubt he was expecting a bill for an expensive helmet and GPS (after all a helmet and cycling computer from Halfords is about £50 right?) and has responded in a way which would push you to call it quits.

Dog owner and cyclist here, live SW London so have to use a lot of busy mixed use areas for walks.  She does go off the lead on selected mixed use paths but I’m conscious of other path users (and aware of my responsibilities as a dog owner), just like I am if using the same paths on my bike.

Not all cyclists are polite and conscientious, there are a lot of idiots speeding around on bikes without due care and attention (we gets lots of food delivery riders on eeb conversions and muppets on Lime bikes round here who think they own the road/footpath) which could contribute to the clouding of judgement that you were in fact riding with due care and attention. On the other hand dog owners can be an entitled breed as well, I remember being told in no uncertain terms whilst on an Mtb ride that I shouldn’t be riding where I was (singletrack trails, not footpaths, came across her on a fire road) and that if I hit her dog I’d be in trouble, diffused that situation by telling her I had a dog too and as such am well aware of how to ride responsibly.

Get yourself checked out if you’ve had a hit to the head, and best of luck with your recovery and getting this resolved without too much aggro.

how do I know that dog will stay put? Should a passing cyclist be forced to slow down so you don’t have to put a lead on? How about other people?

Because I’ve taught him too. The cyclist should slow own as there’s pedestrian on the path.

Sue them till the pips squeak. Don’t be squeamish about the personal injury even if minor, that’s just the rules of the game and they are the ones upping the ante, you’re well justified in retaliating within the law.

We were knocked off our bikes in the USA many years ago. The state trooper who attended said three words to us. Well, he said about 9 words in total, but only three different ones. “Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer.”

The point of having dogs under control is to avoid injury to other parties isn’t it?

What other reasonable precautions could you have taken to avoid this happening? None as far as I can see

What could they owner have done? Plenty. Unless the owner has a line of sight which includes both his dogs AND both the shared use paths I don’t see how the dogs are “under his control” in a way which reasonably prevents injury to others.

I think you could reasonably predict that a dog jumping out at random on a shared use path will at some point cause harm to others. Owner sees dog and path – sees hazard approaching and calls dog to heel/sit immediately=dog under control. Anything else then owner is opening himself to a negligence claim. All IMO of course.

Dog owner here – I’d never consider letting him off lead on a shared path. There are dedicated hireable fields for that or plenty of places away from other people.

While we’re throwing out strawmen and whataboutery arguments, do we know if the intent of the dog was to attack MB and it was then dissuaded by the collision? Maybe it was after some sweet, no-fat leg meat, but copped a load of disk rotor instead. It makes you think.
On a more sensible note, please get checked for concussion. My last one was mild but still left me out of sorts for days. And I don’t know how many you’ve had in the past.

mrlebowski – thats under the dangerous dogs act.  Irrelevant here.  Its under Scots law the dog owner has a duty to keep the dog under control at all times

and they only way to guarantee ‘under control’ and remove any ambiguity is to have the dog on a lead.

Dog owner in the wrong. End of. Tell him to stick his vets bills and small claims court him/her/them if you can be bothered.

Person has a dog offlead on a shared path = ****

Person then tries coming the ab dabs with a vets bill rather than settling up = even more of a ****.

I’d like to walk away, but now he’s threatening me with vets bills I feel like I need to resist. If he tries to make me pay them, that’d be a real pain.

In your shoes, if I had 3rd party insurance, I’d probably de-esccalate by asking for his insurance details and providing yours “so they can sort it all out without wasting our time”.  Assuming the majority of people here are right and they are liable that should fall your way.  If he knows that he’s liable and either doesn’t want the premium hike or isn’t insured it might just get quickly resolved!

I hope you’ve got the head and knee checked out.  Concussion protocol is such that you could easily end up with time off work (loss of earnings?), and even without physio that knee looked like it might be “worth” more than your helmet!

It’s pretty reasonable to expect dogs & children to be running about in/out of the path and the undergrowth gave a run about.

It’s also reasonable, as many have said, to expect owners of dogs and children to keep them close at hand and under control at all times – they are not a third parties responsibility, they’re their responsibility, and if injury results as a result of their dereliction of that responsibility and duty of care to others, then they need to be made to pay up for any injuries suffered. FAAFO.

I hope you’ve got the head and knee checked out.  Concussion protocol is such that you could easily end up with time off work (loss of earnings?), and even without physio that knee looked like it might be “worth” more than your helmet!

I suffered an injury to my knee very similar to that, after my bike dumped me on the ground at about the same speed. The ultimate result being osteoarthritis in two places directly underneath the impact point on my kneecap. As proven by an x-ray several years later after my doctor just shrugged and dismissed it, and a second opinion got a lot of frowning while manipulating my knee, followed by the doctor telling me he didn’t like the way it felt at all, and promptly booked an x-ray at Bath RUH.

The impact damage to my crash helmet also showed that, had I not been wearing it, the damage to my head, just above my left eye, could have proved even more severe. As it was, I had a large graze across my left cheekbone. All that while moving at about walking speed.
That was a pure accident, due to no obvious reason I’ve ever been able to ascertain. I’ve not really ridden a bike since, because of that, I’m too lacking in confidence now, because of my lack of understanding as to the causes, nothing mechanical, or a tyre issue, I’m afraid of something similar doing even more damage and disabling me even more. I used to ride the local Sustrans routes, like the K&A Canal towpath, and even 10-12 years ago, I was having to deal with these sort of issues, I’m sure it’s probably a lot worse, because of the entitlement of ignorant dog and child owners. 😖🤬

So sorry you are dealing with the affects of the collision.  I would be glad of their reasonableness and understanding – it’s far from my experience riding with care and consideration.

Apologies – bit of a rant here.

Fairly recently, I’ve been threatened with violence when a couple walking 4 small, out of control dogs in Cannock Chase, dog ran in front of my front wheel.  I was riding with my son and my brother.

As an animal lover, the last thing I would have wanted is to injure his dog.  I was accused of riding recklessly – but was riding at less than walking pace.

As a stroke and brain injury survivor, I warned him of the likely fatal consequences of him “knocking me out” as he repeatedly threatened.  He continued to threaten me stating he didn’t care.  I’m sure without witnesses he would have attempted violence.

I don’t go looking for confrontation – but he was lucky that he didn’t encounter a younger more impetuous and healthier me.

I am glad I didn’t respond physically to his aggression, verbal abuse and complete denial of his responsibilities.

He was a thug and bully – probably with issues with his self-confidence and masculinity.  I make no apologies for telling him to knock me out as he threatened or finally telling him to **** off.

It’s been confirmed that, while I’m doing OK now, I was concussed.

I hope your experience with concussion wasn’t too bad.  It can be a miserable experience.

A poster earlier on your thread mentioned don’t be manoeuvred into paying any element of costs for injuring the dog – but they are definitely liable for costs caused to your bike, equipment or resulting from your injury.

Well, a year down the line things are still rumbling on. 

This incident left me with concussion, which led to post concussion syndrome, which led to my hours at work being reduced, depression, anger, uncontrolled emotions, massive fatigue and headaches. I have only just in the last week started being able to get out of bed easily before 9am. I’ve had counselling, I’m on medication, I’ve seen psychologists, my GP and I’m on the waiting list for various mental health services. I almost failed my probation at work until we realised I was sick.

I lost enjoyment from and motivation to ride my bike, or anything much, for a long time. I wasn’t able to do some of the races I had planned and my fitness fell off a cliff. I’ve gained about a stone in weight.

Thanks to whoever suggested Cycle Law Scotland – I’ve got a claim ongoing with them. The money isn’t the driver – what I’d like is for this guy to be able to say to his mates “you want to keep your dog under control on shared use paths, this is what happened to me”, and for them to keep their dog under control in future. Actually, what I’d really like is for the last year of my life back.

Take my story as a warning – please keep your dog under control where there’s other people around, even better on a lead. Even a cyclist going slowly can end up with some serious injuries.

I’m a dog owner. I’ve had a few experiences with irresponsible dog owners too.

That sucks Luke, that is a tough year. :(

You have my utmost sympathy. I got bitten by a dog a couple of months ago cycling to work on a shared path and the owners refused to admit it had happened to start with despite showing them my leg pissing with blood. They then  moved on to I’d been cycling too fast and came out of nowhere despite the dogs running towards me from 100yrds away. I reported it but had no way of realisticly taking it further as the owners simply walked off. Two months on it still gives me pain and there is a bit of a lump.

As I said in that thread, we have a dog fetish in this country and far too many owners just think the world should accommodate their lifestyle without question. Death, Injury, Pollution, Noise…..all acceptable collateral.

Good luck with your case

Really sorry to hear that,  nothing more useful to add, I’m afraid.

UK-FLATLANDERFull Member
Out of interest I wonder what folk’s responses would be if it had been a kid on the bike and the injury was life threatening?

I’d like to see the answer too as it was completely overlooked when posted! this very much seems like a case of, as in more and more walks of life now, people misplaced “entitlement” to ignore/unable/unwilling to take personal responsibility for their actions/inactions.

That sucks MB, hopefully you’re on the mend now and can get back to full health and get back on the bike.

As in a reply to a strawman argument about replacing an uncontrolled dog, that’s out of the owners sight, with a small child also away from their parent/guardians care?

Not sure on the relative speed & inertia of a dobermann compared to a small child, but it makes you think. Mainly that people will think up any old b*llocks to avoid accepting that dogs must be under control on shared paths.
Think of what could happen if a dog ran out into the path of a little kid and hit it. Who’s to blame then? Etc, etc.

Anyhow, hope you heal up soon @munrobiker

As always, society needs (or is going to need) people’s kids.

It doesn’t need your dogs.  Keep them under control.

Cue lots of dog owners suddenly discovering their strongly held anti-natalist beliefs:

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-49298720

Actually, what I’d really like is for the last year of my life back.

Damn, that is awful to read.

I wish you well, I hope your recovery starts speeding up soon. The weight will come off very quickly as soon as you are ready to hit the button on riding again.

And I hope that you are properly compensated for all your injuries and lost opportunities. There is a small minority of dog owners who have no clue about responsible ownership and the potential consequences of their poor attitudes.

@munrobiker Hope things are getting better.

Had the kids out on a rail trail the other day. Despite signs everywhere and HC Rule 56 most people had their dogs off the lead. Challenged one couple and they completely refused to believe they were in the wrong.

really sucks, hope you get better munrobiker!

HC Rule 56

interesting, I was unaware of this.

Yeah, except it isn’t a small minority is it. It used to be a small minority but as dog ownership has exploded and become the norm – i.e you’re walking without a dog and people are looking at you suspiciously because you haven’t got a pooch, why on earth would you be out walking otherwise….since we got to peak dog then its no longer just a few bad apples but a general level of dog owning incompetence.

HC Rule 56

Yep, most people seem oblivious to the rules; I posted the link to that section of the Highway Code earlier in this thread last year. It’s even worse since then – people just seem to think shared used paths are the absolute best place to take an animal and let it loose. Why not just take it to any of the other thousands of miles of paved footpath that we’re not allowed to ride on? Or better still, get your pristine boots muddy for once in your lives and let doggo enjoy a field or two. Safely, of course.

i.e you’re walking without a dog and people are looking at you suspiciously because you haven’t got a pooch, why on earth would you be out walking otherwise

Is this really a thing? Dog ownership does look like it’s exploded recently, with the number growing from 10 million to 11 million in the last 4 years alone (https://www.pdsa.org.uk/what-we-do/pdsa-animal-wellbeing-report/paw-report-2023/pet-populations). But that still means the majority of the population don’t have dogs and I think it’s bizarre for anyone to assume you’d only go for walks to walk the dog.

@munrobiker This whole episode really sucks, and I wish you a full recovery. You inspired me with how strong you were up those hills in the Pentlands 6 months ago, so it’s even more humbling for me to know you were far from peak form then.

HC Rule 56
Yep, most people seem oblivious to the rules;

I should imagine most pedestrians don’t realise there are rules in the Highway Code which apply to them. Why should they, has anyone ever told them?

that is a tough year. I hope your recovery picks up and is complete

I know this may sound controversial or anti-dog and doesn’t actually help, but I’m amazed that it is permitted to let dogs off of leads in public places (aside from areas that are specifically for dogs). It is very rare in my experience that an off lead dog is actually under the slightest control.

Well, according to the thread on the other forum you should be happy about the scars.

I’m sorry to hear you’re having a hard time. It really is very upsetting to hear the struggles you’ve had as a result of this incident. I hope at the very least you’re able to get some good closure from the legal side.

It’s also reasonable, as many have said, to expect owners of dogs and children to keep them close at hand and under control at all times –

Its actually a legal responsibility.  Not doing so is a criminal offense

It is very rare in my experience that an off lead dog is actually under the slightest control.

I regularly ride on a shared use path used a lot by dogwalkers.  The majority of dogs are under control – a large majority either on a lead of under the control of the owner.  Its just the out of control ones are more obvious – you do not notice the old collie just plodding along minding its own business.  You notice the one that runs at you barking

Twpo pals of mine have had well trained dogs that were never on a lead and always under control

I hope you have sued the arse off the owner.  they and you deser4v e it.  compensation for that sort of injury is a significant amount.

..

One thing that was happening before I started on the meds was every time I saw a dog on a ride I would get a genuine, deep feeling of fear, then anger for the rest of the ride. Given how many dogs you’re likely to see on a normal ride from central Edinburgh, this basically ruined every ride for me. It was no way to get through life.

Even now I definitely react to dogs more strongly, and I would say on an average ride along the Water of Leith from Slateford to Balerno only about a quarter of the dogs are on leads or properly at heel. I notice every single one – my body goes tense and I get a flutter of fear every time I see a dog.

I ended up cycling on a busy A road to get where I wanted to be instead – despite it being much more dangerous when looked at rationally, my brain just could not take using shared use paths and getting fully stressed out about it. Fortunately now I’m able to manage my reactions better and use the shared paths again.

That’s actually pretty reasonable. Your brain and body relate dogs to what happened, of course it will want to avoid them.

I had a dog rush out on me on a local tootle last night. Scared the crap out of me as it was hidden by a hedge, and it got damn close to being a fall/hitting the thing. Owner was 50m up the road and unaware. Apparently ‘the dog never does that’….

I know this may sound controversial or anti-dog and doesn’t actually help, but I’m amazed that it is permitted to let dogs off of leads in public places (aside from areas that are specifically for dogs).

AFAIK over here (Sweden) it’s illegal to be off the leash in most built up areas/within most city and town limits except in a dedicated area like a dog park or enclosed private garden (not sure of the exact wording, i don’t have a dog).
And during the spring and summer (March to August ish) it’s illegal for them to be off the leash in the countryside as well. Unless they are hunting dogs, actually on a hunt (Again, not 100% sure on wording).

No one seems to complain, except those who don’t really want to look after their dog. And probably shouldn’t have one.

What I would advise is , start your discussions with the dog owners in a friendly manner, if you go in  claiming their dog was out of control etc etc , it is likely to make them defensive and you are then in a situation where they dig in and refuse to co operate .

Luke – get some counseling and add that to the bill you are suing them for.

Your head injury is serious and worth a lot in compensation.  Many thousands into some tens of thousands.