Crashed into an out of control dog – what next?

I was riding along a shared used path on the way to the Pentlands today. It’s an old railway line with a new tarmac surface in a tunnel of trees. A dobermann type dog ran out from another path on my left so I slowed, moved over to the right and then another dashed out from the vegetation on my left. I hit it side on at 4.8mph according to Strava, went straight over the bars and hit the deck tangled up in my bike.

Fortunately the owners stopped and I have their name, phone number and email. They seemed pretty reasonable all things considered.

The damage runs to a banged up knee, which has a tiny cut but is very sore but at the moment. I don’t think it’s any worse than a hard slam into the stem, and a scraped hip which is pretty raw. I have had a similar knee injury in the past on my other knee that needed physio but I hope this will die down in a day or two.

IMG_20230912_100916 by Luke Bradley[/url], on Flickr

IMG_20230912_100851 by Luke Bradley[/url], on Flickr

It’s also killed my GPS – scraped the screen really badly, some of the screen is now permanently black, the tabs for the mount snapped and once I took it out of my pocket when I got home I found it wouldn’t turn on.

Finally, there’s some scuffs on my helmet – they’re light, but they culminate in a bulge at the rear right edge of the top of the helmet that isn’t on the other side.

IMG_20230912_102405 by Luke Bradley[/url], on Flickr

IMG_20230912_102413 by Luke Bradley[/url], on Flickr

Other than that, and the shakes, I’m alright. Could’ve been much worse – it was exactly the type of crash that snaps collarbones.

I don’t want to wage war on the owners, or screw them over. What should I reasonably expect here, given the damage is probably not sufficient to go to insurance? Finally, what should I be keeping an eye on and recording? I’ve not had an accident that’s led to injury of any kind before that was someone else’s fault (car, bike or otherwise) so it’d be good to know the next steps.

I remember that the Association of British Insurers assumes the dog owner is liable in situations where a vehicle hits an out of control dog, unless the vehicle driver can be proved negligent, but I can’t find that information online at the one time I could do with it!

If they have pet insurance then they should have 3rd party liability cover. It’s absolutely NOT in their interests to go down that route so if you feel you’re due something I’d speak to them first and give them the opportunity to make things right.

By the sound of it they are reasonable folk since they left details so hopefully you get a decent outcome.

Presume you mean the WOL walkway?

It’s a busy shared use path used by kids, horses and dog walkers. It’s pretty reasonable to expect dogs & children to be running about in/out of the path and the undergrowth gave a run about.

I’d be inclined to say it’s just one of these things tbh.

I think at the very least you could ask that pay to replace your helmet and GPS. If you have cover; I would speak with your insurance company for legal advice about the injuries.

Difficult one. I’d be tempted to ask the owner to stump up for a new helmet and GPS, but I wouldn’t be sure they’ll pay up. If they don’t, I’d not pursue further unless there are independent witnesses.

<span style=”color: #ffffff; font-family: Roboto, ‘Helvetica Neue’, Arial, ‘Noto Sans’, sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, ‘Segoe UI’, ‘Apple Color Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Symbol’, ‘Noto Color Emoji’; background-color: #595959;”>It’s pretty reasonable to expect dogs & children to be running about in/out of the path and the undergrowth gave a run about.</span>

No it isn’t. It’s reasonable to expect dogs to be under control where there might be cyclists and kids around on a shared use path. It’s not a park. It’s the main cycling commuter route from Balerno and Currie to the city. It’s not like I was going fast. And even so, if a dog runs out from vegetation where you can’t see it a tiny distance in front of you, what are you supposed to do? Imagine if it were the same situation on a road with a dog. I definitely won’t be letting it go as “one of those things”.

My mate broke his arm after hitting an out of control dog and claimed off their insurance

you are absolutely entitled to be compensated for the damage caused

was the dog ok?

What scruff9252 said except, the owners sound ok so I would approach them and show them the photos you have.
They may replace things or at least meet you halfway or something.

Still, 6-8 pages and a suggestion of punching a dog in the face for revenge.

It’s pretty reasonable to expect dogs & children to be running about in/out of the path and the undergrowth

No it isn’t. It’s reasonable to expect dogs to be under control

Both of these things are true. There are a lot of things in life that it is reasonable to expect, but sadly, it just isn’t reality.

Terrible for you to get injured and damage your things. I’d talk to the owners definitely.

GPS and helmet to be replaced. Folk need to control their bloody precious mutts, especially where other ‘users’ are concerned.  Very nearly got side swiped last week by two dogs chasing each other (one had a ball) – I wasn’t going fast (slowed to walking pace), and one dog wasn’t looking where it was going. Owners, not to be seen. This was in a massive park, with loads of grassland – dogs off the lead by the large shared use path – throw the bloody ball away from paths.

 It’s pretty reasonable to expect dogs & children to be running about in/out of the path and the undergrowth

While I sort of agree to an extent, it’s also not unreasonable to expect that owners of dogs at least take some responsibility when that ‘live and let live’  attitude ends in an accident that was caused directly by their decision to not really control their dogs well enough.  I mean most of the time, it’s cool, everyone just gets on with it, but this is what insurance is for, and it’s for the owners to step up.

I live within a few 100m of the WoL and so know it very well.

It’s the problem in a nutshell of the concept of shared use paths; You see it as a main cycling corridor, others see it as the principle place to walk and exercise their dogs, others see it where they ride their horse and leave massive piles of dung behind and others see it as as a place to go for a walk…

I’d contact them about the damage to your property, as for personal injury that’s up to yourself. I’d happily mention the injuries but not sure I would go much further for minor damage.

Next time it could a be child’s face. Kick the dog and the owner. Dog shut be put down. Helmets can cause rotational injuries. You were just making progress.

That should cover it.

Yeah there are sections of the TPT between Carrington Moss and Lymm that are like that. It’s shared by everyone and you have to keep your wits about you. That’s fair enough, On a bike your normally the fastest moving thing and you bear most responsibility for avoiding everyone else, but it has it’s limits and  when dogs come at you from the undergrowth, or they dive the wrong way under your front wheel there’s often nothing you can do.

In those situations it’s fair to say to dog owners “You decided to let the dog off the lead, you take responsibility for it afterwards”

I own a dog and understand my responsibilities to the rest of the public. If my dog had been involved in this incident I’d stump up the replacement costs for the op without question. Hope it gets resolved appropriately OP

From the description in the OP I’d say ask for cash to cover a new helmet and GPS (at realistic prices if they are well used). Be happy if they offer go halves. Be a bit disappointed but probably not push it if they don’t want to pay.

I’m with Del on this. I’d be claiming third party on my pet insurance for your GPS and helmet, and possibly reasonable physio as needed (although it sounds like a minor off). It’s what you have insurance for. Were it reversed and I’d caused damage or injury, I’d be leaning on my British Cycling third party insurance.

Hmm, I wouldn’t claim, personally. Unless it’s a “bikes only” or a “no dogs” area, or even “dogs must be kept on a lead” it’s just an accident. They happen (though personally, if I see walkers, or dog walkers I’ll slow to a stop rather than hit anything)(not saying the OP should’ve done, I wasn’t there so I don’t know. Just know I’ve never hit a dog).
A dog wandering about in a dog walking area isn’t “out of control” any more than a cyclist who doesn’t stop is.
But hey ho, others disagree, so carry on.

If the injuries stay as they are, I’m not concerned about them or claiming for them. I was concerned about the knee because it felt so similar to an injury that took me out of riding properly for three months and needed two physio sessions but it’s already calming down after a hot shower.

If they are a bit funny about it, I’d be happy to talk to my insurers to pursue it with their pet insurer. I don’t have their address, only name, phone number and email – is that enough or will I need their address too?

The WoL is so many things – commuting corridor (on bike and on foot), place for recreation, a nice place to be. But in all those situations I’d put the dog at the bottom of the pecking order – people at the top (including those on horses), wildlife in the middle (a squirrel will run away from you, a dog will see you as a friend and come toward you), dogs at the bottom. I don’t see it as primarily a cycling route but it’s not a safe place for dogs to run about, there’s too much going on.

Were the owners in your line of sight? Could they see you? Did they know you approaching? Did you ring a bell?

If they had reasonable advance awareness of your approach, did they take steps to control their dogs? If they did, and the dogs didn’t respond, then the dogs were out of control. If they didn’t attempt to get them under control, then they are negligent.

I ride 16 miles on a multiuser path each day, and incidents like this sadly are a case of when, not if.

Loose dogs and headphone wearers are the worst, along with people caught up having a chat so they don’t hear multiple bell rings.

Whatever you decide OP, good luck. I hope you heal quickly with no long term effects. It looks like the helmet did its job!

As a cyclist with insurance and dog owner with insurance I think you are well within your rights to pursue any claim for your lid and GPS. That’s what insurance is for.
Shared use paths are a really bad place to exercise a dog when open parkland is much safer for off lead running about. Fine if you’re going from A to B with doggy on a lead.

@TroutWrestler – the shared use track runs in a cutting, with a singletrack footpath on the left, hidden behind the bank and that’s where the owners were. The paths join at the end of the cutting. I couldn’t see the owners at all so didn’t ring my bell (I do have one). In fact, I couldn’t see them until I’d been on the floor a little while – I was initially a bit stumped at who the owners could be, they were a long way away.

In that case the “owners”, or “supervisors” of the dogs are negligent, especially as it is reasonably foreseeable that a cyclist could be using the main path.

Ironically they may have chosen to go on the single-track to avoid cyclists, but once the dogs were out of sight, they were out of mind.

Fortunately the owners stopped and I have their name, phone number and email. They seemed pretty reasonable all things considered.

beware people who seem reasonable can suddenly be less so when presented with a bill!  Did they own both dogs?

I definitely won’t be letting it go as “one of those things”.

my initial gut feel was that you were barking up the wrong tree (sorry for the pun!) and that I’d probably “let it go” but on the other hand, I <span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>live next to a very similar path – the dog walkers are so bad I no longer cycle on it at certain times.  Perhaps there needs to be a clear message to all the people that bought dogs in lockdown and seem to have no idea how to train them that there is a risk/cost associated with it.

I wouldn’t be surprised though if both insurerers get in a squabble and you are accused of riding too fast for the conditions, and a counterclaim for a vet bill and you end up going 50/50</span>

Personal liability section of their home insurance may cover them.

Presume the same “dogs must be under control in a public place” rules apply in Scotland.

Just know I’ve never hit a dog

I’ve come very very close a few times. Like, tyres touching. The problem with shared use paths is that most pedestrians don’t consider bikes at all so they wander around, let their dogs run, kids play on them, they stand around, take up the whole path etc. Of course, as cyclists we also need to moderate our behaviour (Bristol-Bath users I’m looking at you here) but they need to meet us half way.

Of course, as cyclists we also need to moderate our behaviour (Bristol-Bath users I’m looking at you here) but they need to meet us half way.

That’s kind of the point on a shared path! Sound very much like the Chester to Connah’s Quay one I use. Happy to share and accommodate other users, inc. friendly dogs, (even when they don’t have great recall or the sense to just stand still) but the owners who don’t GAS or have earbuds on with no perception of what’s happening around them boil my piss.

I am playing devil advocate here….

If you present the owners with a bill for your bits, what would your reaction be if they present you with a Vets bill to cover the injuries the dog may have sustained? Due to a potential ‘out of control’ cyclist.

But hey, dont get me wrong, i feel your pain of dogs on the loose, doing their own thing and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. On my commute to work i always reduce speed and am very aware.

I do hope your injuries heal and you get a satisfactory outcome from this all tho.

As others were saying I would suggest asking the owners to replace helmet and GPS.

The speed you slowed down to is jogging pace and so when combined with the ‘avoiding dog no.1’ manoeuvre I think you have dispensed your duty of care on a shared path.
The dog owners have not in allowing dogs to run around off the lead and between bushes etc where it would be reasonable to expect cyclists, children, runners and similar to use the space.

Shared use path – in my option it sounds like you were both in the wrong. You couldn’t stop in time for an unexpected hazard, and the dogs should be on a short lead. I would put it in the life’s too short box and move on.

My dog is frequently off lead but I will always call her to heel if I see a bike approaching or a cyclists lets me know they are there (bell, shout etc).

As the heaviest/fastest moving thing on a shared use path I think cyclists have a greater responsibility in the same way a 40t lorry has a greater responsibility than a bike on a road.

If a child had run out the bushes and you had hit them you would be doing same claiming the parents had failed to exercise reasonable control over their child?

As others have said I would expect the owners to pay. If they can’t control their dog put it on a lead unless in open space.

As others say, drop them a line, see if they are willing to offer something towards the damaged goods, unfortunately you’re now post accident without much proof i’m guessing, so it’ll be down to their character if they offer anything now. People can seem reasonable until they get hit with 300 quid demands.

Personally, if a dogs off the leash, or even on an extended one i just stop and put a foot down until they’re out the way, had too many ‘he’s usually good….’ moments in the past, or the classic one i got last year about how the dog just doesn’t seem to like cyclists, whilst she’s got him off the lead on a cycle path 😂

I hit it side on at 4.8mph according to Strava, went straight over the bars and hit the deck tangled up in my bike.

I bet the dog was doing more than that so I’d be asking for a contribution to the helmet / gps and if the dog is injured as it seems to be the cause of the incident, the owners own the vet bill.

wow thats a surprising amount of damage / injury from a slow falling off.   personally I’d just chalk it up to bad luck and move on.  but thats just me.

In those situations it’s fair to say to dog owners “You decided to let the dog off the lead, you take responsibility for it afterwards”

+1

Whenever I’ve been walking our dog(s) on shared use paths they’re either on the lead (not a retractable one), or the ones with perfect recall are under close control (either at heel or sniffing about). Dashing in/out of vegetation putting themselves or others at risk they’re definitely not.

Some dog owners just don’t seem to GAS. Previously we briefly looked after a dog with some pretty serious behavioral issues, he was fine as long as strangers stayed out of his personal space. Someone’s black lab comes bounding out of the undergrowth and over to him, so I tell him to sit and distract him with chicken strips whilst shouting for the owner to recall their dog. “It’s fine, he’s friendly”, until the inevitable happens and the untrained Labrador and it’s owner gets a valuable lesson in why not let their dog with crap recall approach other dogs.

On the other side of the fence I’ve ploughed into a spaniel that was running loose at Swinley. Felt sorry for the dog, and as a former spaniel owner I happily let it run riot in the woods, but a trail center (even, or especially, one that attracts a large contingent of other forest users) isn’t the place for that.

What constitutes “out of control”? Just wondering… because it sounds like the mutt just ran into the path as dogs (and kids and adults and cats etc) could well tend to do if they weren’t aware of an approaching (near) silent bike. “Out of control” is what I’d class that dog that mauled the 11 year old at the weekend and then bit 2 blokes who tried to get it off her. This just sounds like an accident.

Dog owners with their animals off their leads on shared use paths are sociopaths, or cyclepaths. It’s one of those, I’m sure.

This just sounds like an accident.

exactly why you have insurance?

What constitutes “out of control”? Just wondering… because it sounds like the mutt just ran into the path

Sure, but ‘not under control’ isn’t the same as ‘out of control’ Like you, for me an out of control dog is one that’s attacking people randomly in the park, but walking along a shared path with a dog off the lead that will just shoot out of the undergrowth isn’t really ‘under control’ either.

generally I don’t mind if dogs are off the lead as I approach them, most will just stand there, some of the really well behaved ones will be under control from owners and do what they’re told (and I always thank the owners) some I’ll stop and  give a wee chuckle under their chins, it’s the “Don’t be a Dick” school of social behaviour. But if people do behave like dicks (either on their bikes or walking their dogs) then they should be prepared for the consequences of that.

I don’t take my dog to areas where I know there will be lots of people on bikes, walking or small children. If it’s unavoidable, she stays on a lead.

Hopefully they will be ok with paying for one or both of the items.

Glad you OK ish. This is going to happen soon (if it hasn’t already) in the park where I walk my dog most mornings.  Hopefully it’ll be a cyclist / dog collision and not a cyclist / child collision.