[Closed] Cracking the 20mph average barrier....

too quick for me...

do you ever go out with chain gangs? or are you a lone type ?

time trials ?

I should add, I have a hidden additional agenda. I road ride solo so I am secretly trying to work out where I am in the massive ladder of fast/average/slow road riding..... 🙂

I get my averages up by ignoring red traffic lights

Ride out into a good strong wind, reset your comp and head back home

piece of piss 🙂

think you'll find its horses for courses, them that like eyeball out rivet racing , and then the more relaxed ctc types and all sorts in between.

Join a club and get out in a chain gang, or get a mate and do some motor pacing....why the fixation with average speed?

I road ride solo so I am secretly trying to work out where I am in the massive ladder of fast/average/slow road riding.....

Ride somewhere flatter?

I'm a lowly 15mph average on most rides but can up that by 20%+ by keeping to the lower ground.

Dont know...still trying to crack the 10mph average.... 😯

I dropped my handlebars and my average went up noticeably.

lazybike - Member
Join a club and get out in a chain gang, or get a mate and do some motor pacing....why the fixation with average speed?

I guess a measure of "how good I am", plus I'd like to do a sportive and be placed well. I've used it for MTB events - set a percieved achievable average for the ride and stick to it. Not the most scientific but its got me top 5 on 4 events of 6 I've entered.

I've a competitive nature...

intervals or something probably. Try riding at 25 for as far as you can get, then short rest and do it again, and again ?

I'd like to do a sportive and be placed well

you do know sportives aren't races?

why not race if you want to race?

If it's a relatively flat route then losing weight won't make a big difference and aero gains are pretty marginal on a regular road bike.

My suggestion would be to try and include some strength training over the winter as that's what has made a big difference for me in terms of the average speeds I can maintain.

You could try gym work or squats but I find regular hill intervals with low cadence pushing a hardish gear worked best for building my power.

Well ok, maybe a road race or two then.

You'll be fine in the medium fast group in our club (Av. is 19-21 mph). Go and join one. It's much easier in a group.

I'm 45, ride regularly and get dropped by the fast group on Saturdays. But if you aren't trying you aren't improving.

you could always get in touch with lance..... he seems to know how to go quicker than everyone

riding compact? Maybe going for a 52/53 upfront will stop 20mph being such a gurn inducing strain. Also, dare I say it, Strava, then look at which sections of the ride you are dipping below 20 at and compensate as appropriate. knowing where speed is easy to gain and what sort of speed you need to carry uphill to maintain your average (unless you are talking modal average?).

Something else to try that helped me a lot was ignoring the speedo and focussing on heart rate. Using 220-age (30) I set a max heart rte of 190, riding at level 2-3 meant riding anywhere from 120-155 bpm. This is "normal ride" for me, working hard up hill, cruising a bit, being able to chat, not getting dropped but also not dropping slower mates etc etc. By upping my solo rides to staying between 140-165 (zone 3+) I'm keeping the pressure on for a whole ride. Not killing myself, woking normal hardness up hills (maybe a little harder) but also pushing hard on the flats and downhills, quite a bit harder than I expected. If anything I found I took it a bit easier on hills as it was easier to get the HR up so I could rest a little, whilst flat and downhill was proper hard work.

One session a week like this (when I was riding 3 1.5 hour sessions a week and a big ride on sundays) improved my overall speed and fitness no end.

Training for next seasons TT's I shall be doing more riding like this for 45-60 mins rather than longer rides at level 2-3 (due to lack of time/light and weather!)

Good luck

From experience, you'll gain 3-4mph if you get into a similarly paced group in a sportive. That means your 17-18mph will get you to 20mph.

chain gang

I got stuck at 20mph last year. This year I changed:
training properly (being coached - so sessions were to HR, working on my weaknesses, very structured)
riding chaingangs that were at first well out of my 'comfort' zone ie average of 22mph door to door but chaingang sections significantly faster
ride lots. my training plan was between 10-13hr per week and i had no time/energy for anything other than training or resting.
race lots. at least once or twice a month at the start of the season, once a week when i was peaking in july and august.
fuelling well on and off the bike.
resting well
new wheels (50m deep sections that roll so much faster than anything i've used before - don't under estimate how much difference wheels will make!)

Interesting i didn't do much bike training over winter, yet was in my best form ever this summer and went from cat 4 to cat 2 in one season.

I'm not so sure about the Z2 type riding....i know some advocate it, but i read some joe friel stuff that suggested if you "only" have 6-12 hrs per week to train that Z2 detrains athletes and there's nothing wrong with Z3/higher intensity stuff. But if you have 20hrs per week, Z2 seems to be the norm. Personally, i'm going for sticking with the fast chaingang for as long as i can over winter time (being a girl i suffer more than the blokes i ride with in a headwind) so i can step my racing up another level, 2 x more social continential chaingangs ie around 16-18mph, 2 x weights and if i can fit it in, 1 session on the rollers working on cadence / one leg drills.

I'd second the above about strength training.

You need to get stronger so you can spin a higher gear. Hill intervals seated at average cadence with a heavy camelback on (say 5x a 4min + hill, do 2-3 sets once a week as part of a block, finish with a few runs up a really steep one), SSing, riding a loaded bike more often, pushing bigger gears for as far as you can (long intervals in effect) etc, anything like that where there's extended and higher resistance has made a difference for me.

Dunno about thresholds and zones much tbh, never found it did a lot for my long-term fitness, i'm just not good at it ) Great for adding some pep before a big ride, but for me it's too complex and ride-passion-killing to use long-term unless you really understand what works for you and/or are primarily motivated by racing.

Going from 18mph av over a few hours to 20 is quite a jump though, one of my ride-motivators is to ride for 2-3 hrs at whatever pace I could do that day, then try to raise my average a few 10ths in the last hour or so. Not easy at all.

personally, if you cant crack 20mph average on a 20 mile route now there is no way in life you can up that to an avg of 24mph by next year

training wise, everybody works differently so it might not work for you.

Also, stop talking in km's and start in miles.

racing helps but you will be found out if your not upto scratch. sportives are also brilliant ways of doing good times without the fierceness of racing, especially if riding them solo.

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

Here's 2 solo rides i done last year for reference

[url= http://connect.garmin.com/activity/220635882 ]road ride 1[/url]

[url= http://connect.garmin.com/activity/204491560 ]road ride 2[/url]

So many variables but...

Join a club is the first tip.
You'll improve no end, you will probably get dropped in a really fast group, but that will improve your riding. Riding with better people does make you quicker, or at least it worked for me.

Do some TTs - either races or your own TT routes (Strava will help here)

Use Strava, good way of getting an indication how quick you are. Obviously not all riders use it, but a good percentage do, certainly on the road.

Do you grease yourself before you go out?

Greased ferrets are noticeably faster up drainpipes

bad binners 😆

i don't race/don't ride chaingangs etc so this is a very untechnical approach, but there's a few things i think are useful..

get good at climbing hard (get strava..) - i don't think it's the best way to get a fast overall speed, but when you do those hills at a more measured pace later, it seems a lot easier to recover if you're used to being totally shagged at the top.

don't finish the effort up a hill until you're back to your target speed (i.e. 20mph) then recover at that

in the same way, don't let yourself go under that speed on the flat unless you're into a very strong wind or something.

but basically just go hard all the time is my main advice.

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

*is sad*

I'm using strava (Garmin 500) already and have 2 KOM's and "generally" in my local area hover around the top third of the "league tables"

I'm strength training at the moment, I've picked a 40k, sorry 25 mile route with 3 x Cat 4's and am pumping out the rest as hard as I can - fastest is 1:19 at the moment.

Interested in your comments DirtyGirl, I interpreted Joe Friel for the Z2's, and with Job and kids 6hrs a week riding is all I can manage so I try for 2 x "fast & short" rides and 1 longer Sunday ride - which would be my Z2 effort. I'd better re-read it (although I have the MTB Training bible not the road one).

Here's 2 solo rides i done last year for reference

road ride 1

road ride 2

Blimey!

2 KOM ? - are you trolling really??

If you can average 18mph for 100km I guarantee you that you're physically capable of breaking 20mph over a shorter distance, say 35km. You just need to learn to suffer a bit more.

It never gets easier. You just get faster.

Seriously though the biggest barrier you're facing right now is psychological not physical.

I sort of use my ~12.5 mile commute as a good indicator of overall "average performance"...

The morning ride in: 12.5 mile East to West along a largely flat road, I seem to average out about 16 Mph.

Evening is the same route in reverse I seem to Average between about 17.5 Mph, looking at the weather online does suggest the wind is normally heading easterly as indicated by my averages, so totting them up and dividing by 2; for a flat 25miles ride half into the wind and half with it I should manage ~16.75 Mph Average in theory (not sure if reality matches that though)...

I still think many of the 20+ MPH average claims on STW come from people basing it mostly on chaingang or club rides and either don't do, or don't count many solo performances...

"Average" performance is a bit conditional surely?
If I always/mostly rode with a group I'm sure I'd have faster average speeds, but riding solo I'm probably expending more energy for lower average speeds, it's one rather arbitrary measurement of a more complex picture...

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

*is sad*

No need to be.. plenty of people are faster than him, and slower than you!

I'm lactic threshold training at the moment before I lapse into Z2 distance training October to Feb, back on the LTR March...

I have no idea what this means and prob as a consequence never get any faster at the races I do.

Are the average speeds talked about above on flat or hilly rides? On my own I can ave ~18mph on a 45mile ride with ~2.75k feet climb and get in top 10% strava for some of the long hills. But seeing the speeds of some of the guys at the local races I'd need a MX bike to keep up. Very humbling.

I'm not trolling, this is a genuine ask.

geetee1972 - Member
If you can average 18mph for 100km I guarantee you that you're physically capable of breaking 20mph over a shorter distance, say 35km. You just need to learn to suffer a bit more.

It never gets easier. You just get faster.

Seriously though the biggest barrier you're facing right now is psychological not physical.

You may have a point here, so a question for others: Personally, I "back off" making my legs suffer in the early half of a ride, saving myself for the latter stages, i I tend to go hard in the last 10 miles.

Is it better then to work hard / suffer from the off so to speak? ie don't back off on the first hill of 3, but really go for it and learn to suffer on the last one a bit more? I guess this appraoch would stretch my reserves and if I have to stop and coast the last few miles then that becomes just a different way of challenging myself?

personally, if you cant crack 20mph average on a 20 mile route now there is no way in life you can up that to an avg of 24mph by next year

mauja - Member
If it's a relatively flat route then losing weight won't make a big difference and aero gains are pretty marginal on a regular road bike.

My suggestion would be to try and include some strength training over the winter as that's what has made a big difference for me in terms of the average speeds I can maintain.

You could try gym work or squats but I find regular hill intervals with low cadence pushing a hardish gear worked best for building my power.

+1 for gym work. I got out on my bike very little last winter, but i did semi-regular lifting. I kept the same pace despite not riding very much. Stiff legged deadlifts are my favourite and work your hamstrings hard.

All that said, i average about 15mph on my bike...

Papa_Lazarou - Member

Are the average speeds talked about above on flat or hilly rides?

Here's some recent examples:

[url= http://app.strava.com/rides/21997069 ]short ride[/url]

[url= http://app.strava.com/rides/20599513 ]Long ride[/url]

Only thing I can add to the above is have you had a proper bike fit?

I'm in a similar situation, 5 months into road riding, 1000 miles under the belt. Looking to up my averages on my local (flat but usually windy) loops. If I really push I can average 18.5 over 2 hours but it hurts me.

I am also usually in the top 10 or so of the strava runs in my local area. Somehow there are people who can *average* 28mph up signficant hills here....

I'm looking to get a retul fit to check my setup as even now I still don't feel the position is perfect, fiddling with seat angles, fore and aft position etc...

i I tend to go hard in the last 10 miles.

Warm up, go hard, warm down. Finishing a ride with legs fiull of lactic won't help recovery and recovery is just as important than the training.
Maybe less focus on zones and intervals and more old-school 'learn how to flog yourself to vomit point up some hills' plus some basics on rest and recovery / maximising the benefit of your efforts is the way forward )
Riders were going very fast well before training plans and interval zones came along. Knowing your reaction to efforts and how you feel on a day / how to ride yourself fit is worth a lot - training plans can be better for riders who are already quite fit ie have less room for improvement and need to tailor the training to specific aims.

+1 for gym work. I got out on my bike very little last winter, but i did semi-regular lifting. I kept the same pace despite not riding very much. Stiff legged deadlifts are my favourite and work your hamstrings hard.

All that said, i average about 15mph on my bike...

What are you on about?

Just ride your bike more.

Struggle on a mountain bike but piece of p155 on a road bike!

Just put a larger wheel circumfrence in your bike computer, you'll hit 20 no probs..

Average speed pretty meaningless as a measure against the masses, too many variables!
But to get faster, ride with faster people.. nothing like giving your old redline a nudge upwards, when chasing down an attack!

Interval sessions will help, i found increasing cadence also helped with sustained speed efforts - but BY FAR the best way to increase speed is to get out on a club ride, you will find that the quick guys will average 20+ without too much haste and although initially it will be painful you will get there in superquick time (no pun intended)

Chris Boardman – 45.57 on 29th May 1993 – Course: H25/13 Average Speed = 32.644mph

25mile time trial. that's nuts i can't really get my head round that, i know what it's like to sit in a group at 22mph and even go solo for 24mph for a short period of time but those kind of times are beyond comprehension.

Chris Boardman – 45.57 on 29th May 1993 – Course: H25/13 Average Speed = 32.644mph

25mile time trial. that's nuts i can't really get my head round that, i know what it's like to sit in a group at 22mph and even go solo for 24mph for a short period of time but those kind of times are beyond comprehension.

Bare in mind, while top TT'ers are very fast, those times are usually done on stupidly dangerous roads with very heavy traffic (H23/13 was shut down for being to dangerous!), it was also a 2 mile downhill start!

MrSmith - Member
Chris Boardman – 45.57 on 29th May 1993 – Course: H25/13 Average Speed = 32.644mph

25mile time trial. that's nuts i can't really get my head round that, i know what it's like to sit in a group at 22mph and even go solo for 24mph for a short period of time but those kind of times are beyond comprehension.

Hardly worth comparing with one of the best time trial bike riders ever..

Anyone who can average in the 20 for an e tended period is a fast rider. Our intermediate group in the club averages about 18-20, the fast group is 20+.

radoggair - Member

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

😥

That's it. I'm taking up gardening.

It's hard, solo. I managed 33.6kph on my commute in Germany which was 18 miles. I had about a mile of suburban with a couple of junctions, then miles of flat with one small ish hill at the end. I was zipping along at 38kph on the flat to get that average.

Try 3 sets of 6 or 8x30s max sprints with 30s rest and 5 mins between sets. That'll get you quicker, and teach you about pain 🙂

Oh and dismiss those talking about club rides being fast. They are, but 20+mph in a group is a totally different ball game to doing it solo! That reminds me, I must test myself sometime. I may try a 25 miler, although I am not sure about a course that will flatter.

To be fair though, average speeds dont mean much on there own.

Your routes look pretty flat really so a 20mph average should be achievable.

Have a go at the Fred Whitton challenge, even Radoggair or anyone cant average 20mph on that!

My riding time last year was about 6 hours 50mins, absolutely shit average. Fair enough, the weather was poor and I didnt ride it so hard that I collapsed at the end. But I bet I couldnt have gone more than 10 minutes quicker.

Eeking out a couple of extra miles per hour will take serious training I'd imagine. I dont do that, I tend to just ride my bike. I havent got any faster in years. But then I dont race either.

Join a club and ride with people faster than you. It'll get you out of your comfort zone. Also your legs will get used to ticking over faster and this will translate to solo rides. Do a few club ten mile tt's you'll easily crack 20 mph.

Funny enough 20MPH is also my target for my commute this year, only managed it once, averaged 20.1MPH on a 20mile commute.

HR was well up in the Z3 and above at times, since then though seem to have dropped to below 19MPH for some reason. 🙁

I must admit the weather and conditions affect my times significantly.

Quite good info from dirtygirlonabike, about training in different zones depending how much you ride.

I may look more into that.

Get in a club, you won't need to join right away.
Our fast group does between 19 and 23 mph average. Weather and issues have a massive impact.
I also lead 100km rides for people wanting to do a sporting 100km for the first time. They end up being about 18mph +
I do very little training and join both rides.

I'm a 52 year old vet racer. My flat crits are about 25mph + over an hour and five laps.
My last 25 mile TT was a long 57 without tri-bars.

But my solo rides are usually 100km/62 miles at 18mph +. I always sit up on descents rather than use them to up my average as they have no value.

You need to get in a group and do some turns.

Thanks for the suggestions. Something I haven't mentioned is a time limit - where about have our second kid....

But anyway, I'll roll out my KettleBells and weights for the winter, it fairly easy to squeeze in a 45 minutes workout with a new baby.

I'll next ride on Saturday morning, so I'm going to really try to max it. I'm usually riding out to Essex / Herts from North London so plenty of lights to negotiate but the 25m short ride I posted earlier only has two sets of lights and one difficult give-way on it. My times are record on a Garmin 500 with Auto-pause on.

Regarding clubs, with one 3.5yr old and 1 o the way very very soon, its hard to commit to a regular Sunday ride that means I'm away most of the useable day. Usually I ride early Sat morning to leave the rest of the day available for the family.

[quote=Kryton57 ]My times are record on a Garmin 500 [b]with Auto-pause on[/b].
🙄 I doubt everyone else would be using autopause to work out their average speed.

What, they ^^ are all clocking 18, 19 & 20mph averages including waiting at lights and junctions? C'mon, really?

What, they ^^ are all clocking 18, 19 & 20mph averages including waiting at lights and junctions? C'mon, really?

Yep. Benefits of living in the countryside.

Yep. Benefits of living in the countryside.

There you go. I have to stop every five minutes. Perhaps if I didn't....

Anyone fancy inviting me for a ride in the county? 😉

Possibly.
I'm in Leighton Buzzard, a mate often comes up from NW9.
Another from StAlbans
Sometimes I ride with some Ilford Crest guys.

We have cross commitments now, so the fast group will be on the lean side.

Where do you live?

The countryside is generally free to access, although you may find more hills 🙂

oldgit - Member

Where do you live?

Enfield, north, near the m25 so not far from you. I have some longer routes which venture to Hertford, or Chelmsford via the various villages.

for reference, if your doing 17-18mph for 60 miles ( which in road terms isn't alot) then your pretty far off a good rider

I'd disagree. 17-18mph on your own on an average 60 mile road ride is pretty decent, it's about what I'd average. Surprisingly, it's remained reasonably consistent even from the days when I was racing 1st Cat (10 years ago) to now when I only do occasional races (mostly crits) just for fun, I'll still turn out rides of anywhere between 16.5 and 19mph (depending on terrain/weather).

I can still sit in a crit race and average 28mph for an hour.

Average speed is often pretty meaningless anyway. Variation in terrain, weather, road/traffic conditions, computer settings (does it auto-pause or not) can add up to massive differences and riding in a good group can easily add up to 5mph to the speed that you'd do alone.

Sometimes I go back to NW9. As a kid I used to train through Barnet and out into the Herts/Essex borders. My route memory might be a bit rusty though,

I love these average speed threads. I know its a flawed measurement but it's been invaluable for me to monitor my training since I got back into cycling 6 weeks ago.
I've got two there-and-back 20 mile routes that I use, one hilly and one with a big climb at the beginning before becoming pretty flat. I'm training on my old GT mtb on 1.95 mud tyres because thats all I've got 😉
My first ever time out on the flatter route, I averaged 12.5mph. Now, i'm disappointed if I dip below a 16mph average.
Used within it's limitations, average speed is a great tool for a noobie to push themselves harder. The other night for example, there was a stiff headwind for the return leg. When I reached the halfway point, my average was just shy of 18 so I knew I was going to face difficulties on the way back 😉 Sure enough, it was torture and soon my average was back to 15.8. Then, it was just a case of wringing every last ounce of strength out of myself to stay above 16. The final downhill added a bit more and I was relieved to get home with a 16.3.
Its not for everyone and only a fair comparison with someone riding solo two minutes behind or in front of you but chasing up that average is what is dragging my sorry butt out on a regular basis now the event I trained for has passed.
I'm wondering if I can hit 20mph average over 20miles on my mtb???

[url= http://connect.garmin.com/activity/204491560 ]Ride 2[/url]

radoggair

Where did you go 200 feet below sea level in Scotland 😯

The countryside is generally free to access

Except for Wales. £6 to get in now.

My commute when I was 17 was 15 miles each way with a few small hills at the start and then the last half was floodplain.

Over a summer, doing the same ride every morning/evening and my only concept of training was to try and sit 0.1mph higher than yesterdays average every day (so usually that meant blowing up, especially with he hilly first half, so the average crept up slower than 0.1/day).

That was on 36spoke OEM wheels and cheep tyres, none of this aero malarkey!

Over a summer I went from 16.5mph to 22mph.

So either simply flogging yourself twice a day every day and eating every carb you can get your hands on is an effective training regime. Or adding significant chunks to your average speed is attainable over a 'season'.

These days I'm lucky to average anywhere near that so this winter I've promised myself that I'm going to bin all the expensive electrikery*, supplements and training plans and go back to flogging my guts out on the commute and a couple of group rides (there's nothing more motivating than making people you used to be slower than really suffer on a climb, or just dropping them entirely). Just the bike, 1 hour each way (a 1 mile circuit near each end to keep the time consistent) and a simple computer.

*cheap GPS logger will stay though as it's a) cheap, b)easier than a training diary

Hmmm, perhaps I'll going to try the group I rode with once before, perhaps they won't mind if I can't turn up every week.....

Autopause... never used it. Our club medium average was 19 mph last night over 20 miles of suburban mix. Stopped at a lot of lights on the A316 and home stretch. That was on my fixed wheel.

Join a club.

get a turbo trainer?

For timetriallists the goal is to break the hour for 25 miles or at least break 24 minutes for 10 miles .I missed it by 2 seconds on Saturday and did 24.01 for a ten in my first race for 4 years.Using a compact set up is fine the gearing is plenty high enough

Interesting split in opinon as to whether 20mph is quick, average or slow over the day...

Night!

Average speed was always distance traveled divided by time out the house.

If we went on autopause data then ive done several 300k audaxs at 20mph ave.

If you really want to break the 20mph barrier go do a time trial, i always find something extra when im racing.

Amaizing what a wee wager with an old hand does for your 25 time ....even on a compact.

Tip, turn off the speedo get a cadence monitor - aim for 90-100 rpm and push the hardest gear you can sustain at that rpm.

Club group rides do not count!

Unless you sat on the front the whole ride 🙂

My 15.5 mile each way work commute with laden pannier sees me average 18.9 mph. I don't seem to get over 20 unless in a group; rarely ride in one but last time was 87 miles in 4h20.

I've just got a Suunto Ambit to delve further into my performance and fitness; might be good to see where I can improve.

I just like trying to better my times as a personal challenge; I only race off road and then just for fun.

I doubt everyone else would be using autopause to work out their average speed.

It seems those epic rides by Radoggair did, as do the local club I rode with nice - the unmistakable chorus of beeping computers/GPS units gave it away.

I did the wiggle n.downs road ride this year. It was at the beginning of the season and I averaged 17mph for the first 60 miles. After that, it went a big style t1ts up. And no f*cker on that sportive would let you hang onto their wheel over any distance.

I've been doing solo road rides of near 20mph but short rides over rolling hilly countryside. I don't see 20mph as a huge barrier to break. More of a challenge would be taking on a TT or a club road race.

Have a go at the Fred Whitton challenge, even Radoggair or anyone cant average 20mph on that!

your right on that one, thats one ride where you wont hit 20mph average. Think i hit just under 18 avg this year for it, which got 3rd quickest behind the Jebb meister. Next year, hopefully get about 19 avg if its not too windy !!

Club rides don't count? you lot sound like me.
In a fast group you will slip out of you're comfort zone and onto the front. So chances are you'll be doing stints at well over 25. And I'm telling you that it will improve you're solo speed. Even if it's just because you're pushing it and having to recover in a group.