Cotic BFE – fork travel 150 mm or 160 mm?

@phatstanley – Do you have any photos?

will dig some up fer ya…

bfe
bfe2
bfe3

i’m 6 ft, with a roughly 32″ inseam.
kinda gorilla-armed, though.
it’s a large.

@phatstanley – Tyvm for these! 150mm looks fine on the front. Are you running a double chainring on the front? Also nice to see a Cotic BFe not in green for a change 🙂

I have short arms…I think.

not read all of this but I run a bfe with uturn coil lyriks (115-160mm) and anything between 120 and full travel is fine. I run 1×10 and it’s set up fairly beefy and not light but I love it.

ja…double chain ring mit schtinger chain device.
those forks are 160’s, btw.
though…having just measured them for the first time, there’s 170 mm of stanchion showing…go figure.

though…having just measured them for the first time, there’s 170 mm of stanchion showing…go figure.

Thats because at full compression there will be 10mm of stantion still showing

Bfe 150mm Revs here.

1×10 with clutch mech and RF wide/narrow chainring. 34t front and 11-36 rear. Haven’t found anything I can’t ride up and down yet!

120mm is best on a BFe imo. Even 140mm felt too long – raises the BB and front end too much.

Thats because at full compression there will be 10mm of stantion still showing

yet another example of something that i probably/maybe/possibly knew once, but managed to forget. 🙂

Jack,

I’d take the advice of many on here with a pinch of salt. There’s alot of bitter folk out there using long travel forks on their hardtails because they are to poor to be able to afford a full sus.

It wasn’t that long ago when worldcup downhill races were being won on bikes with 150mm of travel. Yet nowadays, some people seem to think it’s a good idea to use this much travel on a hardtail for trail centre riding.

Have you ever watched a 4x race? Some of those tracks are pretty gnarly yet the riders arent using long forks on their bikes, oh no, they just use about 100mm set up pretty stiff, yet they still go really quick.

You see, long travel forks not only make the handling a bit odd, the bike also reacts funny on jumps and it just makes it harder to manoeuvre in general.

And after you’ve specced your long travel forks for ploughing through rocks with, you’ll also need to add a load more strength and weight to your bike to enable it to cope with the abuse. Think dual ply tyres, heavy wheels and downhill cranks. Fine for downhill, but it looks liek your after a bit more than that.

Look at it this way:

What do the pros use? Long travel full sussers for downhill and enduro. Short travel full sussers and hardtails for xc/4x/dirt jumps.

Where are the long travel hardtails I hear you ask? No where – cos they’re shit.

Which riding discipline would you ever want one for? Exactly, none! The only reason for them is if you’re to poor to afford a full sus.

For the riding you describe in your post, it sounds like the Bfe would be a good choice but built like a traditional hardtail – light, snappy, manoeuvrable etc. Then you can go round corners, jump jumps, drop drops, and ride over rocks rather than through them.

I hope this helps.

Davidtayforth, I’m afraid I disagree with almost everything you’ve just said.

Most folks I know who ride long travel hardtails ride them as second bikes to their full sussers, and love the way they feel so playful and fun. My Blur has been hanging on my wall for a year now – I only ride my two LTHT’s. I find that I can ride anything on my ht that I can ride on my 150mm Enduro – but not as fast obviously. It maybe slightly slower, but it certainly feels more involving.

I’ve owned 80-100mm hardtails before, but I’d never want to buy one again unless I was planning to slim down and enter some races. For me (and more real world mountain bikers I know) a slacker head angle and longer fork just makes hooning downhill and jumping off stuff sooo much more fun.

There’s alot of bitter folk out there using long travel forks on their hardtails because they are to poor to be able to afford a full sus.

And then there’s people who can’t express their opinion without discrediting everyone else’s in some way.

People who ride rigid bikes must just be really skint then 😉
Nothing to do with the fact that fastest bike to get up/ down a hill is not what everyone wants, if your not racing then surely fun is the most important thing?

wiggles – Member
People who ride rigid bikes must just be really skint then
Nothing to do with the fact that fastest bike to get up/ down a hill is not what everyone wants, if your not racing then surely fun is the most important thing?

😀 I usually just walk these days.

I agree, having fun is important. Which is where I’m struggling with the long travel hardtail thing.

I did have one, and it was good fun in the alps. Although I think I’d have had just as much, if not more fun on a downhill bike.

Over here, it was just to much weight and travel to be much fun. I mean hardtails are good for bombing round the woods on and riding trail centres etc. But for that, short travel is what you’re after.

And then there’s people who can’t express their opinion without discrediting everyone else’s in some way.

Sporry, it was meant to be tongue in cheek! I couldnt give a toss what bikes people ride. Although sometimes it is to easy to wind up the long travel hardtail riders.

Mr taylforth’s style may not be everyone’s cup of tea (including me a lot of the time), but he has valid points to make about sticking massive forks on a hardtail. I run 130mm forks on my 456 evo and they are easily long enough to cope with being straight lined through stuff that would be best avoided.

I remember drooling over the Orange subzero from about 2008 as it had 7 inch forks on a burly ht frame. I still do lust after that bike, but only as an idea. I wouldn’t like to lug that around in the riding that 90% of British do 90% of the time. It was always described as an Alpine Guide’s favourite. Probably because it was a ‘big’ bike that would get ridden down big mountains day in day out. It wouldn’t need to be too quick as a lot of the riders being guided would not be able to out run a guide who knew the trails. So as a partly compromised workhorse, it would be an awesome bike for a season in the alps.

But that is not what we are talking about here! Too long a fork on a hardtail will compromise many aspects of the ride. The bike will pivot on the rear contact patch, hence braking will radically steepen the head angle, typically just before a crux corner or section. To make up for this you either accept getting dragged over the front of the bike, or you set the front up so high that cornering, climbing and pedalling are a chore.

A high quality 120 or even 100mm of travel will always be better than a cheaper 160mm of travel as well. Also consider the possibility and impact of sticking a big tyre on the front, this will slacken the bike and add some travel as well, often people forget to factor in tyre height into geometry and handling.

Good luck, the BFE looks a beaut of a frame in any case!

Sporry, it was meant to be tongue in cheek! I couldnt give a toss what bikes people ride. Although sometimes it is to easy to wind up the long travel hardtail riders.

That’s okay, it’s just that I’d like to think that I can decide for myself if I’m having fun or not while riding a bike no matter my financial situation.

exactly danny! I also think the 456 looks like it would work better than most hardtails with a long fork! Or at least better than the cotic does anyway.

This was posted on here the other day, prime hardtail riding. It’s what they’re best at. 100mm forks btw

That’s okay, it’s just that I’d like to think that I can decide for myself if I’m having fun or not while riding a bike even if I might happen to be poor.

😀

I’m poor, I only have two rigid singlespeeds!

Ha yes. I love that section of that DVD, until the dirt jumping anyway!

Seeing Peaty giving it the ‘stubbing a fag out with the front tyre’ whilst the back end slides around is quality. There are no wallowing forks in the section with him a Nigel Page, just snappy handling loveliness.

Anyway, peaty would never get into mbr on that bike, the bars aren’t a metre wide for a start!

And that’s a whole different ‘fashion versus function’ argument that we don’t need to rekindle here!

Where are the long travel hardtails I hear you ask? No where – cos they’re shit.

man…you’re a funny guy. 😆

You see, long travel forks not only make the handling a bit odd, the bike also reacts funny on jumps and it just makes it harder to manoeuvre in general.

not noticed that at all. and i am a big fan of leaving the ground AND having control when in contact with it.

What do the pros use?

and that’s just the way the marketeers want the avg. weekend warrior to look at it, so they end up buying a *stable* of bikes with different weight wheelsets and tyres so they can be perfectly matched to the terrain/conditions/wind direction etc..

but like you mentioned, being “to(sic) poor” certainly comes into it.
i need one bike that can do it all, basically, cuz that’s all i can afford.

I mean hardtails are good for bombing round the woods on and riding trail centres etc. But for that, short travel is what you’re after.

again, a gem of an assertion. i guess -as so often is the case on this forum- the main riding habitat of the bike in question is highly pertinent. “bombing around the woods” on a short travel bike is all well and good when it ain’t too steep, but i sure find that the travel gets eaten up a lot quicker when the gradient gets a bit more difficult to ignore. 😉

Although sometimes it is to easy to wind up the long travel hardtail riders.

and there we have it: i fell into your damn trap!!!! 😳 😀

I’m poor, I only have two rigid singlespeeds!

Fair enough 🙂

and that’s just the way the marketeers want the avg. weekend warrior to look at it, so they end up buying a *stable* of bikes with different weight wheelsets and tyres so they can be perfectly matched to the terrain/conditions/wind direction etc..

Not at all. If long travel hardtails were any good for anything, then the pro’s would use them.

not noticed that at all. and i am a big fan of leaving the ground AND having control when in contact with it.

Have a go on a bmx, a world apart from having to move through 160mm of travel on the front of your bike when you want to do a jump.

These days, with suspension bikes being so affordable and sorted, a fun hater with anything more and 100mm or so seems pointless to me. 150mm is madness and I reckon people are only doing it because they like the feel of the slacker head angle. Someone needs to make a fun hater with a 67 HA built with a 100mm forks A to C. Jacking up BB’s with big forks is defeating the object IMO.

But that is not what we are talking about here! Too long a fork on a hardtail will compromise many aspects of the ride. The bike will pivot on the rear contact patch, hence braking will radically steepen the head angle, typically just before a crux corner or section. To make up for this you either accept getting dragged over the front of the bike, or you set the front up so high that cornering, climbing and pedalling are a chore.

If you’re getting ‘dragged over the front of the bike’ when you brake heavily then you aren’t riding it right. You drive your weight through the BB when braking and as the front dips you let your arms straighten – your centre of gravity should either stay centred (if you’re immediately entering a corner) or shift rearwards. Getting pulled over the front only happens if you’re leaning on the bars when you brake, which is never a good idea on any MTB.

The quality of suspension matters more than the travel but 100mm of travel only gives you at best 75mm of positive travel before bottoming out. It’s really not that much. 30-50mm more fork makes it much easier to set up suspension to work right in more variable conditions without bottoming out – which always happens at the worst possible time!

The caveat is that big forks increase in A-C even more than the travel increase over smaller forks, and get heavier. Too much and they’ll unbalance a light hardtail frame (a BFe weighs less than most gnarlier carbon FS frames) and some riders really don’t like higher BBs (lower isn’t better in every way!)

My final-ish point is only an idiot would choose a long travel hardtail to try to win races. 4X is the most obvious example – a longer fork will cost you snap out of the gate and pump everywhere and thus be slower but easier to ride. Easier doesn’t win races – quicker does. They are however great if you’re cheap/lazy and like chasing mates on FS bikes without the bike feeling out of its depth half the time.

IME they’re ideal for local riding but not so great for trips away where you’re doing consecutive big days of riding because if you’re riding hard a good FS will beat you up much less. Depends on how tough you are – I’m not tough enough hence I’m FS hunting but the LTHT will remain the local weapon of choice when the weather is doing its usual thing…

CGG, happily taking the bait to keep DT amused. 😉

😀

My final-ish point is only an idiot would choose a long travel hardtail to try to win races. 4X is the most obvious example – a longer fork will cost you snap out of the gate and pump everywhere and thus be slower but easier to ride. Easier doesn’t win races – quicker does. They are however great if you’re cheap/lazy and like chasing mates on FS bikes without the bike feeling out of its depth half the time.

I always found a long fork on a hradtail harder to ride over jumps as the front end would compress so much without the rear doing the same.

Why are people trying so hard to discredit others bikes? I ride a 160mm hardtail and it’s brilliant! So utterly smooth, you can barrel through stuff faster than you can on a 100mm bike, no doubt at all. I don’t fall off due to pivot points, just my own bad riding!

Someone mentioned a bigger fork not taking the sting out of a 2ft drop… if you think a 2ft drop stings maybe that just shows the difference in riding styles many people have. The guys who can’t ride big rough trails seem to be the ones nay saying 150 forks. Figures.

No trying to discredit others bikes here. A ‘trail’ hardtail is my only bike, and probably always will be as I just love everything about it!

The point is that no one should be suckered by everything that is pushed on us by the trendsetters. In my opinion, if you want to ride up, along, then down most things in the uk then a bike that is bang in the middle of every range of geometry, weight etc, will be the best option. If you want to lug or grunt a dual crown beast up a climb to absolutely vapourise a descent then go for it! If you want to red-line up every climb on a carbon 80mm bike with a 110mm stem, then pick your way down the other side then go for it!

I just don’t buy into the whole ‘this is the only way’ line that is pushed a lot of the time. It doesn’t help that ‘niche’ riders love being niche, and get all punchy at the first opportunity. And yes, I am guilty of being a bit niche sometimes myself as I do like trying to bag full-suss riders on rocky descents!

Anyhow, check out the sunsets on the other thread if you need to calm down. That is what we all share in common – enjoying an outdoor sport that you can do whatever the weather at any time of day or night, summer or winter.

Well, it is a Sunday after all, so if I feel like delivering a sermon, I will.

Someone mentioned a bigger fork not taking the sting out of a 2ft drop..

yeah.. 😆

It was the reference to the previous posters lecture on technique, given the embarrassing video that he had posted of himself comically wiping out on a two foot drop a few months back..

I was riding predominently very steep, rocky, rooty trails on my 456 with 120mm forks
I wondered if the longer forks that were becoming fashionable would bring something else to my riding..

I tried it out and it was a joke.. On steep, rocky technical trails the extra travel either chucks you over the front under braking, or leaves the front unweighted and vague, or you’re battling to stay in between the two..
None of these are good attributes or even safe, for riding steep technical trails at speed IME

I guess this might not apply if you have some super gorilla arms or are riding mincey FOD trails..? 😉

People are strange.

[/url] Shan[/url] by nickcummins1[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Just to add to your issues redmeat… 😉

Kelvin, Indeed…

@readmeat – by the way your thread has now adopted classic STW, starts with a simple question, a few different answers (generally recommending whatever the poster owns) then within a few posts descends into an argument which consumes double the space of the original question.

@david – “pros don’t ride long travel hardtails” that’s just irrelevant.

Yunki, it felt higher than 2′ when I eventually hit the ground and the signage would suggest the trail builders agree, seeing as it was on a FOD black DH run and still had warning signs. Whatever, I’m sure it would have felt even higher if I’d ridden it with rigid forks and a massive chip on my shoulder! 😛

And here’s how you do it properly:

http://mtbtrailtales.wordpress.com/2012/08/28/forest-of-dean-new-dh-trail-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly/

1 min 10 seconds in.

Anyway, I know I’m alright at riding a bike and anyone who knows me knows that. I’m not good with big drops or gaps because I get scared and when I get scared my skills tend to go out of the window. But I’m perfectly well qualified to comment on good or bad riding technique, mine is far from perfect but at least I have some idea of what’s wrong with it and know that I do get a fair bit right when I’m riding well.

I don’t think I’ve ridden as badly as on that video for a long time but it’s been interesting to note that since I had a massive and quite out of character crash (from which I’m still not fully recovered) everyone I ride with has been staying a lot safer on rides but not going slower or smaller. One idiot moment can **** up your whole life – that one came horribly close but I dodged a bullet and it’s changed my perspective on bigger features. If I feel it, I do it, if I don’t, I leave it.

lol etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX5GZeL2GD8

But why wouldn’t you buy an old Pitch or Reign for the same money?

aaaaahh.. I’m sorry CGG, I was only pulling your leg..

I just didn’t ever gel with a long fork on my 456 for riding the steep boulder fields of East Dartmoor, there just didn’t seem to be enough control over the front end for that kind of work.. I sold my fork after a couple of rides, but I can accept that it may just be my technique that was at fault..

FWIW I now ride a rigid bike too now (cos I’m poor) but I have a small collection of rice crispies on my shoulder rather than a chip.. 😀

Well, I went for single ring (34 teeth), 150 mm on the front and a small frame. I’ll let you know what I think in a week or so 🙂

@ taylforth…you’re full of shit and your opinions are only that.

one jumps bmx style doubles on a bmx made for that style of riding not a LTHT. You probably won’t, however, win any bmx races on those bmx bikes you’ll need a bmx that has a race spec. You also won’t succesfully jump jumps made for a LTHT on a BMX. It’s all horses for courses.. If these bmx, 4x riders wanted a day in the mountains and had a choice of a BMX, a stiff as **** framed 80 – 100mm hardtail with a steep head-angle, or a LTHT I’m pretty sure they would choose the latter.

I have ( prefer ) my BFe at 160. It’s a hoot..I laugh when I point it downhill. If this makes me poor I guess I’ll always be richer than you!

Be good if STW got a ‘like’ button