Coppers / legal beagles – dog fouling on private property

What can I do here?

My business premises is a converted house, with a patch of land to the front of it which we have to maintain as part of the tenancy agreement.

The gardener cum cleaning lady (local husband and wife) are now refusing to do the garden because the locals let their dogs crap on it and don’t clear up. A bit of googling suggests because it’s not a ‘public’ place that council byelaws, etc. don’t apply and it’s a matter between us and the locals. So what offence is being committed, other than i suppose trespass, which has no teeth as far as I can tell because what losses are being sustained?

If I see a dog on there i go out but mysteriously owners clear up when I’m present, it’s evenings and weekends. I’ve just been out again and cleaned up and there were 15 piles of shit, in one weekend.

I’m leafleting the local houses, again, but it won’t make a difference. Short of a stake out to find out exactly who’s doing it and then posting it back through their doors, what can i do legally. Would the police / PCSOs be at all interested?

Fence?

Or CCTV? I’m sure its an offence catch them at it?

Not practical – and far too expensive (it’s quite a large area to fence, and in a conservation area so chain link etc, would be out)

Or CCTV? I’m sure its an offence catch them at it?

That was the question (in the OP). As far as i can tell because it’s not public land there isn’t a specific offence other than trespass, and that’s F’all use.

Electric fence? Covert video surveillance? Private prosecution. Not really going to be practical sadly, it’s just the way of disgusting animals. And their pets.

Install highly visible CCTV cameras and signage both warning of the CCTV and instructing folks to scoop the poop or face prosecution / fines / bombers / pissy flip-flops.

Or get a sheep.
If the dog comes into the garden you can then shoot it for worrying your sheep.

Signs up telling people its private property and asking them to smile as they’re on CCTV (and poss install fake CCTV).

As for fencing in a conservation area, might as well ask for forgiveness than for permission.

Is the poor gardener lady also employed to clean up your sticky deposits? 🙂
Ambiguous job title in OP.

In Brighton, on a small triangle of public grass, someone had put a a small, bright pink flag on every pile of dog shite. There were probably a hundred flags! The idea being, I suppose, to shame the dog owners.

Put up posters advertising the first annual ‘Kick A Dog To Death Day’ where you’re dog is automatically entered if it craps on your driveway. Easy to mock up a fancy poster based on travelling circus adverts.

A bit of googling suggests because it’s not a ‘public’ place that council byelaws, etc. don’t apply and it’s a matter between us and the locals.

not sure what the rules are in England, but north of the border, the rules on what constitutes a public space in this context are pretty broad [in simple terms if the public are there by right or implied invitation then it is public]. That doesn’t mean the council will see it that way, or as a priority.

other than i suppose trespass, which has no teeth as far as I can tell because what losses are being sustained?

I think you can clearly define a loss: (i) You are paying staff who can’t work for “health and safety reasons”; (ii) You are having to pay someone else to clear up the mess.

Would the police / PCSOs be at all interested?

probably not. CCTV is pretty cheap. The council might be more interested if you have CCTV and that helps identify the owner. The dog owner may be less likely to allow it if the CCTV is overt. You stand a reasonable chance of identifying the correct owner to “explain your concerns to”.

Good fake CCTV camera pointing at the area, and a sign asking people to clean up after their dog, and that they’re on CCTV.

They’ll be local people, so won’t like the idea of being caught in the act, even if you’re not actually filming.

It could quite possibly be construed as a ‘public place’ under the legal definition, regardless of public/private ownership, because, clearly, it’s a strip of land to which the public have an implied right of access (no fences/gates).

Speak to your local council = many of them have dog fouling teams which may offer some advice.

Easiest option is for you to pick it up before the gardener comes. Not ideal, but a solution along with the signs.

Have you spoke to your landlords?

It’s the gardener…

He is hopeing you will pay for an extra hour at double-time to allow for him to clear it up before cutting the grass.

Plant some pyrocanthus around the perimeter, or put up a low fence. You say it’s not practical, but it’s probably a sight more practical than taking the culprits to court, which is your other option.

For the owner, not he dog. Though it is likely that after being covered in a pink, sticky mix of former-owner the dog isn’t going to be pointing anything target-shaped in your direction for some time.

Sprinkler linked to a PIR detector

cum cleaning lady

Perhaps the gardeners have just got fed up of cleaning up your man juice?

it’s probably a sight more practical than taking the culprits to court, which is your other option.

Except (go back and read the OP) – as far as i can tell from googling and talking to the council, there is no offence of allowing your dog to foul PRIVATE land, only public. So if i decided to take someone to court – on what grounds?

It might in theory be easier to fence it, but I’d gain immense pleasure in prosecuting someone for it if i could.

BB gun?

Except (go back and read the OP) – as far as i can tell from googling and talking to the council, there is no offence of allowing your dog to foul PRIVATE land, only public. So if i decided to take someone to court – on what grounds?

On the grounds of Trespass, a civil matter so the OP will be picking up the tab. Plod will not be interested.

Get an injunction for each and every dog owner who allows his mut to shit on his land. If they break the injunction I believe it becomes a police matter.
Do-able but financially crippling. Hence the fence/spikey plants are cheaper.

Hire a rent a cop for a couple of weekends on minimum wage.

If you fit CCTV then you can erect a Wall of Shame with huge pictures of the offenders and their dunghounds.

I had this when I lived in a house where a public footbath crossed between my house and my garden. I would sit on the bench at the front of my house and watch dog owners allowing their mutts to wander round my garden.

“Can you get your dog out of my garden please” and “You’re dog’s just done a shit on my lawn” were met with either indifference, excuses or (sometimes) hostility. Never apology.

Me and the neighbours put up signs. It made no difference. Some people are just indescribably entitled. And filthy.

You would need to catch each individual offender in the act, photograph them, make a massive fuss and shame them… then the next day there’ll still be another steaming turd on your lawn.

perchypanther – Member

If you fit CCTV then you can erect a Wall of Shame with huge pictures of the offenders and their dunghounds.

This was going to be my suggestion. CCTV & then print out pics of the perpetrators & make a weekly wall of shame.

Follow them home and return their belongings through the letterbox? :p

It doesn’t happen during work hours, and while a Gareth Keenan style stake out sounds like fun, I have better things to do with my weekend evenings.

There is a possible culprit, based on me seeing him/her* and this very friendly chocolate lab in the garden a few times, but of course when approached they agree it’s disgraceful and they always make sure they clean up.

* sometimes a man, sometimes a woman with the dog, not that the dog’s owner is some sort of haemaphrodite

You could try an ultrasonic dog repeller

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KEMO-POWER-ULTRASONIC-ANIMAL-REPELLER/dp/B005ERFXL0

Some people are just indescribably entitled.

Yup – having just got a puppy I am now discovering both the joys of walking around the neighbourhood on paths I have never explored before and the sight of dog shit everywhere. Why on earth can’t people clean up after them? And surely if they are walking their dogs there then they would want the area to remain clean?

There is one prolific dog/owner that craps on the same part of the same path all the time – I have no idea what dog it is but if I produced a turd of the size this beast deposits then I couldn’t sit for a week.

Wall of shame. Remember to state on your sign that owners who walk their dogs on the area agree for their image to be used in such a way.

What about an electric fence similar to those farmers use for livestock, just spiked in so easily removable?

” warning rodent control in progress . The land owners do not accept liability for loss or injury resulting from exposure to products used on this land . If you or your pet show any cause for concern within 48 hours of exposure please seek urgent medical or vetinary attention “
Should make a lovely sign if that does not work add blue food dye on dog busicuits and scatter them around .

I caught a Middle Aged middle class woman let her dog shit on my drive last week.. She had a roll of dog shit bags in her hands but made no effort to scoop it. I confronted her as my wife and I wheel the kids buggy, walk to work, ride our bikes through that area daily. She turned to me and said “oh, it’s only a little weeper (wtf?) and it’s hardly a massive pile is it” I explained that it is still dog shit and was on my drive and she reluctantly picked it up and flounced off tutting that I was being unreasonable. What are people like these days.