Home Forums Chat Forum Conservative coalition with DUP…..

Viewing 40 posts - 241 through 280 (of 461 total)
  • Conservative coalition with DUP…..
  • scud
    Free Member

    Sv, i kept seeing this ridiculous argument that Corbyn backs the IRA or similar, he held open talks with Sinn Fein, not the IRA, there is an actual difference.

    What the mainstream UK media seems to have forgotten in the run up to the GE is their own reporting of the Conservatives numerous dealings and negotiations with the IRA/Sinn Fein including a Tory peer laundering money for them:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/2601875.stm

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-16366413

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/oct/16/northernireland.thatcher

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-secret-ira-meetings-revelation-body-blow-to-major-premiers-authority-damaged-by-his-risky-1507416.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/mar/18/northernireland.past

    And a Tory peer that laundered money for the IRA

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lords-stunned-by-tory-peers-ira-funding-claim-2126723.html

    Why is OK for one and not the other?

    sv
    Free Member

    Your implication is that he quietly supports/supported IRA violence, isn’t it? Thats what you’re insinuating?

    Not insinuating anything, it would appear in the eighties he chose to support the Nationalist/Republican agenda, certainly didn’t support the pro unionists (you know the ones that are fellow British citizens with the English/Scottish/Welsh).

    He certainly would be a compromised PM on any NI affairs in the future.

    codybrennan
    Free Member

    sv

    He certainly would be a compromised PM on any NI affairs in the future.

    Yeah? He wouldn’t be alone….

    sv
    Free Member

    So it’s fine to have Corbyn but not May borrowing 10 votes from Foster?

    Democracy eh

    jimjam
    Free Member

    sv
    it would appear in the eighties he chose to support the Nationalist/Republican agenda, certainly didn’t support the pro unionists (you know the ones that are fellow British citizens with the English/Scottish/Welsh).

    I would just point out that Nationalists/Republicans are also British Citizens.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    See if you can find a single person on here who thinks it’s ok for any mainstream party to be propped up by either the DUP or SF.

    I’d be very surprised if you can.

    If so, please crack on.
    If not, I can see no point in raking up the past.

    aracer
    Free Member

    Yes, congratulations on finally working out the difference.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    Well, that’s me told.
    🙂

    Klunk
    Free Member

    I would just point out that Nationalists/Republicans are also British Citizens Satan Worshipers.

    fify

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Klunk – Member

    I would just point out that Nationalists/Republicans are also British Citizens Satan Worshipers.

    fify

    Ah yes, I had completely forgotten that they do literally worship the anti-christ. Which means they have no souls, so it’s no sin to kill them. If only they could be rounded up into camps and somehow disposed of like DUP MP Sammy Wilson would advocate.

    oldracer
    Free Member

    Not insinuating anything, it would appear in the eighties he chose to support the Nationalist/Republican agenda, certainly didn’t support the pro unionists (you know the ones that are fellow British citizens with the English/Scottish/Welsh)

    I think you need some perspective..

    Corbyn spoke to the them yes….but what about the ex-terrorist in the Tory ranks?

    I don’t see you getting your knickers in a twist over that?

    Maria Gatland

    Now, you tell me……which one broke the fing law??

    Any criticism of Corbyn HAS TO BE SEEN bearing her past in mind.

    oldracer
    Free Member

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    [Tinfoil hat]

    Is May more cunning than we think? Perhaps she can see the potential for a bit of terrorist activity by stirring up the Irish situation.

    If you can’t have a war to boost the govt’s position, a terrorist threat that you can monitor must be the next best thing…

    [/Tinfoil hat]

    mcmoonter
    Free Member

    For some reason I’m getting ads for paramilitary apparel and night vision goggles 😯

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Ads you say? Hang on, let me check my phone. Yes, I’m getting intruder alarms.

    zokes
    Free Member

    Voting is indeed pointless

    Sure, that’s why so many seats were decided by a few hundred votes or less. 🙄

    As others have said: do crack on. It’s funny to watch ch, but don’t be under the illusion that you’re being taken seriously.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    epicyclo – Member
    [Tinfoil hat]

    Is May more cunning than we think? Perhaps she can see the potential for a bit of terrorist activity by stirring up the Irish situation.

    If you can’t have a war to boost the govt’s position, a terrorist threat that you can monitor must be the next best thing…

    [/Tinfoil hat]

    You’re accrediting them with a plan. 😆

    ninfan
    Free Member

    See if you can find a single person on here who thinks it’s ok for any mainstream party to be propped up by either the DUP or SF.

    Yes, absolutely, I do

    You lot still don’t seem to get that there’s a difference between before the ceasefire and after.

    Once Can’t believe it’s Not IRA and the Red hand Gang, and the rest of them, renounced and permanently abandoned violence as a means to an end they became legitimate politicians*, because that’s the only way a peace process is ever going to work, see South Africa as another example

    The DUP, as elected politicians have as much right to participate in the UK government as they do in NI government, the same as SF have a perfect right to be in government in NI, or here if they chose to take their seats in Westminster.

    some of they may well have been odious bastards that I wouldn’t shed a tear for their passing, as I said about McGuinness when he died “I have to give him credit for changing his ways, and being instrumental in the success of the peace process, the common ground, and indeed friendship, he seems to have found in his work with Ian Paisley is nothing short of remarkable. Despite this I don’t think a thousand lifetimes in hell will make up for the misery he caused in the past.” – my objection to Corbyn is that he, and Abbott, didn’t just speak to (on a partisan basis) but publically supported and repeatedly gave a public stage to PIRA-SF whilst they were engaged in armed struggle against the Democratically elected government, Abbott even saying it herself, “is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.” – Corbyn entirely rejected the will of the people of NI, claimin that a United ireland was the only means to a peaceful outcome, incidentally, something that the UK & Irish governments, the armed groups and the people of NI have ultimately proved him wrong in.

    aracer
    Free Member

    We knew we could rely on you, ninfan

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    ninfan – Member
    See if you can find a single person on here who thinks it’s ok for any mainstream party to be propped up by either the DUP or SF.

    The latter is impossible. But aye, why not, politics needs some hilarity! 😆

    ninfan
    Free Member

    Shame I could rely on you to whinge about me rather than actually come forward with a coherent argument against any of the points I made though, eh aracer?

    The latter is impossible.

    Oh dear, Joseph failed to read on as far as the bit where I point out that SF could easily choose to take up their westminster seats if they wished

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    ninfan – Member
    Yes, absolutely, I do

    You lot still don’t seem to get that there’s a difference between before the ceasefire and after.

    Once Can’t believe it’s Not IRA and the Red hand Gang, and the rest of them, renounced and permanently abandoned violence as a means to an end they became legitimate politicians*, because that’s the only way a peace process is ever going to work, see South Africa as another example

    The DUP, as elected politicians have as much right to participate in the UK government as they do in NI government, the same as SF have a perfect right to be in government in NI, or here if they chose to take their seats in Westminster.

    some of they may well have been odious bastards that I wouldn’t shed a tear for their passing, as I said about McGuinness when he died “I have to give him credit for changing his ways, and being instrumental in the success of the peace process, the common ground, and indeed friendship, he seems to have found in his work with Ian Paisley is nothing short of remarkable. Despite this I don’t think a thousand lifetimes in hell will make up for the misery he caused in the past.” – my objection to Corbyn is that he, and Abbott, didn’t just speak to (on a partisan basis) but publically supported and repeatedly gave a public stage to PIRA-SF whilst they were engaged in armed struggle against the Democratically elected government, Abbott even saying it herself, “is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.” – Corbyn entirely rejected the will of the people of NI, claimin that a United ireland was the only means to a peaceful outcome, incidentally, something that the UK & Irish governments, the armed groups and the people of NI have ultimately proved him wrong in.

    It’s extremely funny watching ninfan twist himself in knots. 😆

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    ninfan – Member

    Oh dear, Joseph failed to read on as far as the bit where I point out that SF could easily choose to take up their westminster seats if they wished

    They could but they won’t, ever. Ergo, impossible.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    They could but

    Thanks for agreeing with me, and destroying your own argument that it’s impossible 😆

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    Describe to me the circumstances where Sinn Fein would take up seats in the UK parliament?

    These knots should be funny, go on! 😆

    aracer
    Free Member

    You appear to misunderstand ninfan’s argument – clearly it’s no more impossible for SF to take their seats at Westminster than for ninfan to vote Labour.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    Well, one situation might be where the alternative was letting the DUP get their own way, but by taking up their seats they could team together with a certain old ally to defeat them

    clearly it’s no more impossible for SF to take their seats at Westminster than for ninfan to vote Labour.

    You mean like I did in ’97 ?

    (aracer runs up to the ball… he shoots, and he misses 😆 )

    Cougar
    Full Member

    If you can’t have a war to boost the govt’s position, a terrorist threat that you can monitor must be the next best thing…

    We already have one of those, just not enough people to do the monitoring. (So clearly, what we need is a load more suspected terrorists to keep an eye on.)

    Cougar
    Full Member

    You mean like I did in ’97 ?

    Weren’t we just holding Corbyn to account today for his politics in the 80s not half a breath ago?

    theotherjonv
    Free Member

    I’m going to agree with Ninfan here, that the past is the past and while there may be issues with siding with one part of the NI ‘divide’ leading to problems over impartiality when it comes to the GFA and resolving the Stormont impasse currently, working with people who now renounce violence despite their past is technically OK. Even if I’d be watching like a hawk that the say-do ratio remains appropriately balanced.

    Still doesn’t satisfactorily answer why it’s OK to work with a party that has their views on other matters such as sexuality, religion, etc.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    ninfan – Member
    Well, one situation might be where the alternative was letting the DUP get their own way, but by taking up their seats they could team together with a certain old ally to defeat them

    still wouldn’t happen. next scenario?

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    theotherjonv – Member
    I’m going to agree with Ninfan here, that the past is the past

    twist and shout, twist and shout! 😆 Could have taken that stance, pre-election, no? 😆

    btw the past ain’t in the past, you’ve still got the small matter of the DUP’s utterly odious current world view, but as I say crack on. Going to great watching the tories infect themselves with it.

    Klunk
    Free Member

    queens speech delayed! negotiations not going well ?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    theotherjonv – Member
    I’m going to agree with Ninfan here, that the past is the past

    Which is exactly why he spent hours trying to post pics of jc meeting people and bringing it up at every opportunity as a reason not to vote for him.

    Still doesn’t satisfactorily answer why it’s OK to work with a party that has their views on other matters such as sexuality, religion, etc.

    Still waiting for their core voter to arrive

    ninfan
    Free Member

    Could have taken that stance, pre-election, no?

    The stance that I, and I am sure many other people, took both before and after the election, is that you can’t trust the judgement of someone who allied himself with numerous terrorist groups (not just spoke to, allied himself with, categorically and publically aligning himself with their stated aims) whilst they were still engaged in a campaign of violence – Rather than anything to do with his relationship with those people after they had renounced violence, which is where, as part of the peace process, you have to accept that the past is the past.

    seosamh77
    Free Member

    You’ll be hammering the tories for talking to sinn fein pre decommissioning/pre ceasefires? Do you even have a scooby as to the timeline of decommissioning/ceasefires?

    If everyone took your, quite ridiculous, stance. We’d still be stuck in the 1980s.

    Dialog is the only way forward.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    allied himself with numerous terrorist groups (not just spoke to, allied himself with, categorically and publically aligning himself with their stated aims) whilst they were still engaged in a campaign of violence

    You’re talking about Corbyn? He supported Irish unification through violence?

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    ….which is where, as part of the peace process, you have to accept that the past is the past.

    If members of all parties waited for a ceasefire on all sides before talking to all the groups involved, we’d still be waiting now.

    How many more murders would have occurred in the past 30 years if we’d not tried?

    ninfan
    Free Member

    i) Talking to and negotiating with all sides, privately, in an official capacity as elected government, in order to achieve peace

    Ii) publically aligning yourself, in an unofficial capacity, and openly supporting the stated aims of one single side of the conflict, repeatedly giving a public stage and publicity to their aims and onjectives, including opposing steps towards achieving a bipartisan agreement to achieve a peaceable outcome by the respective governments.

    You don’t see the difference?

    If Corbyn had been talking to and working, impartially, as a go between or facilitator between both republicans and unionists, it might be different – He wasn’t, and both his own, and his bedfellow’s (arf!) statements from the time prove this

Viewing 40 posts - 241 through 280 (of 461 total)

The topic ‘Conservative coalition with DUP…..’ is closed to new replies.