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Does the queens speech have to be voted through?
Im off to email my MP....
Oh good grief, now it's Clinton's emails 😆
Just to remind anyone who's not paying attention, the current Labour leader is not Gordon Brown. It's this chap Corbyn, who retired former leader, ex-MP Gordon Brown keeps slagging off. So if "Gordon Brown sorta nearly did something similar but didn't" is the best response you have, then you have less than nowt.
Does the queens speech have to be voted through?
Yes, hence why they've delayed it as they've got to remove some of the more unpalatable items from their manifesto to try and get it to pass.
chakaping - Member
Anyone else wondering, if the DUP are such objectionable ****, why do they have more MPs than anyone else in NI?
more numbers, and that NI politics has polarized much like the rest of the uk.
Does the queens speech have to be voted through?Im off to email my MP....
No, is the simple answer, Usually the larger party votes for it as it is in their interests. If there is no party with an overall majority it is possible for it to lose the vote. Hence the horse trading with the DUP to ensure it goes through.
Edit!
[quote=kimbers ]Does the queens speech have to be voted through?
That's kind of the whole point. The vote on the Queen's speech is an endorsement of the government. The protocol as I understand it (though we're into hypothetical's here) is that if the vote isn't passed then the PM heads to the Queen to tender their resignation.
Does the queens speech have to be voted through?
Somebody is unclear on the concept of "monarchy".
Sectarian headcount.Trimble's (more moderate in some ways) UUP fell apart after the Orange Order withdrew its support when it looked like peace was on the cards. Orangemen eh?
Rubbish, it was the failure to reach an agreement on decommissioning. To infer that the Orange Order didn't want peace is insensitive DD.
But the Northern Irish party reportedly wants Farage to be brought into Brexit negotiations.
wonderful, the DUP/tories/Farage! Got to be great for the tories long term prospects! 😆
Somebody is unclear on the concept of "monarchy".
Someone is unclear on the concept of 'constitutional monarchy' 🙂
You mean like I did in '97 ?
Why, out of interest?
(Other than to win arguments on the Internet in 20 years' time 🙂 )
Why, out of interest?
interesting question there
The Conservative party at the time was stagnant, they no longer stood for anything other than clinging on to power* and we needed change, at the time I voted based on Blairs proven ability to cast off the worst of the historic Labour party dogma and lead us towards an economically successful** centrist vision of the future.
At the time I thought he had been more successful than he actually was in killing off the left wing loons, and as we saw it was only a matter of time before Gordon not only abandoned prudence, but subsequently beat her to death with a shovel and ran away claiming it was nothing to do with him***.
You could possibly argue that I'm naturally inclined towards transformative politicians as being the most effective in improving things (theory of constant revolution?).
* See also Labour after about 2006
**e.g.. [i]‘I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery.’[/i]
*** See quotes from 'Blair - A Journey' and Lord Turnbull interviews [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/question-for-those-who-voted-conservative/page/2 ]here[/url]
Anyone else wondering, if the DUP are such objectionable ****, why do they have more MPs than anyone else in NI?
A nice group of people informed voters it would be bad to vote for anyone else...... 🙄
they've delayed it as they've got to remove some of the more unpalatable items from their manifesto to try and get it to pass.
there's not going to be much of it left, is there? 😆
There wasn't THAT much to start with.
The shortest political suicide note in history?
How has the queen's speech voting worked in the past?
Historically does every opposition MP vote against it? So therefore we only need 3 tory or DUP rebels to see the whole sham collapse?
EDIT: Sorry, just saw it's been answered above
Come on you rebels!
While I'd love to see TM fail to put a government together, I think the best we can hope for is a short and humiliating term in which plenty of legislation gets blocked - then another GE.
Just to remind anyone who's not paying attention, the current Labour leader is not Gordon Brown. It's this chap Corbyn, who retired former leader, ex-MP Gordon Brown keeps slagging off. So if "Gordon Brown sorta nearly did something similar but didn't" is the best response you have, then you have less than nowt.
To be fair, with chewkw' endless nonsensical drivel going beyond tedious, watching ninfan clutching at any straw is getting funnier with every post.
A nice group of people informed voters it would be bad to vote for anyone else......
I love how people who don't like a democratic decision come out with carp like this!
I'm a Conservative supporter, and I agree that this is a complete clusterfunk, but what worries me more than a Con/DUP arrangement is the thinly veiled threats of a 'return to violence' that have started to crop up. Fear of violence is what defined the Troubles, and made peace in Ireland so difficult to achieve.
I find it appalling that Labour supporters are effectively using a terror threat to try and undermine our democratically elected government.
[quote=ninfan ]The Conservative party at the time was stagnant, they no longer stood for anything other than clinging on to power*
* See also Labour after about 2006
& Tory party circa 2017
You could possibly argue that I'm naturally inclined towards transformative politicians as being the most effective in improving things (theory of constant revolution?).
So you did vote for Corbyn? 😯
[quote=Skankin_giant ]A nice group of people informed voters it would be bad to vote for anyone else......
I'm sure all they said was that they hoped voters would make the right choice.
The Conservative party at the time was stagnant, they no longer stood for anything other than clinging on to power
Hate it when someone else beats me to the obvious conclusion.
I find it appalling that Labour supporters are effectively using a terror threat to try and undermine our democratically elected government.
Have you got any examples of labour supporters using a terror threat?
As opposed to pointing out it is a risk if the tory government is so desperate to cling to power that they get into bed bed with this bunch of religious fundamentalists.
BigButSlimmerBloke - Member
To be fair, with chewkw' endless nonsensical drivel going beyond tedious, watching ninfan clutching at any straw is getting funnier with every post.
Nonsensical? You know you have reached to the point of no return don't you? My opinions are at least free which cost you nothing but when Labour proposed free this and that then that's nonsensical. Get it? Yes? 😆
Me work mate considers those voting against the govt in support of the EU bureaucratic system as The gullible ... The gullible. I thought he was referring to book about the Gullible Travels or is that Oliver's Travels? 😆
Anyway, it looks like the oppositions are trying to wreak havoc on the entire population. Oppositions can't form the govt so wreak havoc as an excuse to persuade the gullible to support them ... 😆
Free everything anyone? It's free ... I have money trees. 😆
edit: I have been busy so do not expect me to reply every time you invoke me name ... coz I need to work you know unlike you middle class lefties with loads of money. 🙄
I find it appalling that Labour supporters are effectively using a terror threat to try and undermine our democratically elected government.
I think Tory Boi must have forgotten his Ritalin today!
To infer that the Orange Order didn't want peace is insensitive DD.
😆
Funniest thing I've read in ages. Thanks for that.
[quote=councilof10 ]I find it appalling that Labour supporters are effectively using a terror threat to try and undermine our democratically elected government.
cite
In the same way Murdoch only said he 'hoped' Gove would be bought back into the cabinet.
I was thinking more of a different orange man 😉
I'm pretty sure Enda Kenny also has warned May about any tie up with DUP could nullify the GFA. Not that he has any interest in matters of course.... 🙄
Enda Kenny? What would he know about what's going on in Ireland compared to a Home Counties Tory?
It's all part of the Deep conspiracy: Irish gov/IRA/some bearded geezer with no hope of ever making it big in politics....
I think to be fair to councilof10, it has been suggested that the DUP have some significant terrorist connections in their past, and for the Tories to be cosying up to such people after suggesting Corbyn is a danger to us all because he disapproved of all terror not just the IRA is at best hypocritical and a little distasteful, and at worse risks the GFA - I don't think anyone has said yet that if the GFA breaks down the armed campaign starts up again the day after.
metalheart - Member
I'm pretty sure Enda Kenny also has warned May about any tie up with DUP could nullify the GFA. Not that he has any interest in matters of course....
Why do people have so much interest there out of a sudden? 🙄
@aracer.
There's a lot of orange fellas about at the moment….
Murdoch was in the room when [the pasty faced but orange hearted] Gove interviewed Trump, DUP want that other orange chap, Farage bought into brexit talks .
Here's a lovely coincidence…..
'In the paper, entitled 'Northern Ireland the Price of Peace', Mr Gove wrote that he believed the IRA could have been defeated and the Good Friday Agreement was a capitulation to them by Tony Blair.
Mr Gove also wrote at the time that he believed the SAS and other undercover killers should have been allowed to continue in Ireland and could have defeated the IRA.'
And there's me thinking that May was bringing Gove back in a belated attempt to appeal to the youth vote.
Marching season coming up too. I expect a few extra flags, some extra wide sashes and a bit of volume on the flutes from the ultra-pro-peace-process Orangemen. 😀
Beards, metalheart, that's what the conspiracy is based on. Of course. 😉
And I've just looked in the mirror and realised I'm part of it!
Beards, metalheart, that's what the conspiracy is based on. Of course.And I've just looked in the mirror and realised I'm part of it!
Ye gods, me too! It's deeper than I dared thought!!! 😆
chewkw - Member
metalheart - Member
I'm pretty sure Enda Kenny also has warned May about any tie up with DUP could nullify the GFA. Not that he has any interest in matters of course....
Why do people have so much interest there out of a sudden?
Because people remember what the troubles meant, and whether it's a major risk or not, they are glad to have those days behind them.
Have you got any examples of labour supporters using a terror threat?
Do you use social media? There's an unhealthy focus on an "inevitable" return to violence. To use scaremongering as a means of undermining the government makes me very uneasy.
It's threads like these...
[img] 
[/img]
Those days are behind them so why do you lot keep stirring up the hornet's nest? 🙄igm - Member
chewkw - Member
Why do people have so much interest there out of a sudden?
Because people remember what the troubles meant, and whether it's a major risk or not, they are glad to have those days behind them.
I understand you want to bring down the govt no surprise there but you should let that region be. 🙄
Edit:
deadlydarcy - Member
It's threads like these...
How come my post is missing from that quote? 😆
molgrips - Member
Somebody is unclear on the concept of "monarchy".
Someone is unclear on the concept of 'constitutional monarchy'
And someone need to take a look at what happened in Australia in 1975. That was monarchy, not constitutional monarchy.
@igm: please, don't feed the troll. It'll just spout more shite to get attention.
Fair point.
Anyhow, to change the direction a wee bit, the flip side of all this is that Labour does now have a decent chance to getting somethings through parliament if they play it right. Probably should be a thread of that on it´s own, but i´m no starting it. 😆 What opportunities does this all open up for Labour..
Those days are behind them so why do you lot keep stirring up the hornet's nest?
I don't know..
Ask the Torys maybe??
Talking flip sides. Most of the DUP manifesto would appeal to a Labour voter.
But it so happens there's a few indigestible lumps in there.
seosamh77 - Member
Anyhow, to change the direction a wee bit, the flip side of all this is that Labour does now have a decent chance to getting somethings through parliament if they play it right. Probably should be a thread of that on it´s own, but i´m no starting it. What opportunities does this all open up for Labour..
They actually believe they can govern and to turn back clock for Brexit. 😛
Another point of view, is the DUP aren't the only group that now have power. Loads of tory factions now, Ruth Davidson and her 13 MPs being able to out vote the DUP aswell is the first that springs to mind. So interesting dynamic there. What other factions are likely to emmerge within the tory party, any obvious?
Go away.chewkw - MemberThey actually believe they can govern and to turn back clock for Brexit.
If we look at the tories as the England football side they have just scraped a 1 nil win against San Marino and have been knocked out of the world cup qualifiers.
Would we say what a fantastic manager we have and I'm sure we will do well in the Euros?
No ,we would want the manager strung up from the nearest lamp post.
Tory boys, she is making you look shit. She has no laurels to rest on. She has always been shit ,why are you defending her?
You should want to get rid of her more than us normal people.
Do you use social media?
I asked for examples. So have you actually got any?
To use scaremongering as a means of undermining the government makes me very uneasy.
Whereas using scaremongering to attack the opposition seems to be fine for you to do?
Davidson appears to be threatening wielding the 13 scots tories as a block in Scortlands interests - whatever that means to her. She is pro European and could easily make common ground with Sturgeon over europe
Tory boys, she is making you look shit. She has no laurels to rest on. She has always been shit ,why are you defending her?
Agreed, she presided over a series of errors as home secretary, some of which we are still dealing with the fallout from today.
She has certain appealing qualities for the right wingers: she's a bit thatchery and she doesn't like immigrants.
So even in the face of her recent humiliation of her party and the country, she still tickles their fancy in some ways
Most of the DUP manifesto would appeal to a Labour voter.But it so happens there's a few indigestible lumps in there.
This struck me as an issue before the election and the DUP situation.
All the parties have some decent policies (even Lord Buckethead's 3 day weekend) but it's like going into a restaurant and looking at the set menus and then being told you can't swap stuff. So if I want the scallops to start with I have to have stuffed aubergine for main. And if I want steak for main I have to have parsnip soup to start. Now, I'd love scallops and steak, but I can't ****ing stand parsnips or aubergines.
And because I'm basically unhappy about that situation, I'm not getting ANY pudding either.
Why can't we have collaborative politics, rather than always confrontation?
if she's smart she should insist on a crossparty brexit talks/group in/coming from scotland. Tbh if davidson plays it right she could have sturgeon in her back pocket and cement the tory vote in scotland.tjagain - Member
Davidson appears to be threatening wielding the 13 scots tories as a block in Scortlands interests - whatever that means to her. She is pro European and could easily make common ground with Sturgeon over europe
What opportunities does this all open up for Labour..
I'm sticking with "Sit back and let it unfold." In the same way that '74 was a good election for the Tories to lose, this one has been good for Labour. There's a resurgence. But we're at the arse of an economic cycle, while the Eurozone is on the up. (Probably both due to QE, but at different times.)
She faces a negotiation that can [i]only[/i] lead to a bad economic outcome for the UK. She's at the mercy of factions within factions. In the old days, she'd have been given the tip on the shoulder and told to go quietly, for the good of the party. For whatever reason, there's a dearth of "talent" on the Tory front bench, and what talent there is is politically aware enough to know that now would be a disastrous time to launch a leadership challenge. Boris withstanding, I can't see anybody who's going to have a go.
Let Mummy cobble together this hubristic agreement. FFS, she's been [i]forced[/i] to apologise to her ex-MPs and activists. It's like getting a toddler to say sorry, and staying up till ten at night to finally hear it. I never thought she was a "safe pair of hands" but even I have been surprised at quite how incapable she was. I think it was that footage of her picking furiously at her hands when under slight pressure that shone a light for me. She's a disaster.
Ask yourself, what would Napoleon do in this situation...he wouldn't interfere while an enemy is [i]busy destroying itself[/i].
Theotherjonv
~The best thing the rest of the political groups could do right now is agree an anti tory pact for one five year term and introduce proportional representation. Each stands down in 50 seats the other chooses as best target means the tories get humped in any election. PR means no more tory governments and forces parties to co operate and seek consensus. Holyrood works well on this basis
It would seem to me Sinn Fein have little interest in making the process work currently, we cN't be too far from direct rule anyway as they won't work with the dup to form a government since McGuinesses death
It would seem to me
😆
I love that May is taking her party back to the nasty days, just as the progressive youth are becoming engaged
Cameron had done so much to bring them into the modern era, since of the most ardent Tory fans I know are gay, one of them was also a staunch European so Brexit had left him with a dilemma as he couldn't stomach Corbyn, another stuck with the Tories thru everything and was always defending them on facebook but has now gone silent as all his mates are asking him about the DUP deal.
Keep it up Maybot!
TJ you have no idea where PR would lead. It could just as easily end up with a Tory / UKIP style coalition. Labour will never agree to it anyway, now they think they have a real chance at winning a majority
fair points, dd.
Not sure about that TJ..
[url= https://www.indy100.com/article/uk-election-map-proportional-representation-system-2017-conservative-labour-7784956 ]Indy100 - PR[/url]
Napoleon will indeed play the sit back and throw some fuel on the fire game, sure he'll offer an amendment to the tory version and both will have to go to the house for approval or otherwise .......
Corbyn has played a blinder without scheming , just being consistent , belief in his cause , and not buckling to anyone , it's a real sign of a leader . The inadvertent prime minister ??
councilof10I find it appalling that Labour supporters are effectively using a terror threat to try and undermine our democratically elected government.
It's not Labour supporters, anyone with a concern for peace and stability in Ireland should be alarmed by the situation. Do you really think people would be using a "terror threat" as you put it if the Tories had proposed a coalition with any other party?
Of course not. Other than the completely implausible scenario of the Tories forming a coalition with Sinn Fein this conversation wouldn't be happening. And it's happening because it has the potential to jeapordise the GFA (which the DUP opposed). To compound matters the DUP were the only pro Brexit party in Northern Ireland and it's entirely plausible that a post Brexit hard border in Ireland could also re-ignite the troubles.
Wonderful.
flegs jamba, flegs. 😆jambalaya - Member
It would seem to me Sinn Fein have little interest in making the process work currently, we cN't be too far from direct rule anyway as they won't work with the dup to form a government since McGuinesses death
The inadvertent prime minister ??
It is a well known axiom that those who most desire power are the least suitable for it...
I agree. 😛molgrips - Member
It is a well known axiom that those who most desire power are the least suitable for it...
The Maybot ought to resign & back to another election imo
Gordon Brown sought a pact with the DUP in 2010 according to leaked Hilary Clinton emails
Did that earlier Jamba.
what does that prove anyhow, there's a democratic right for it to happen, no one is arguing against that, just saying it'll end tears.
oink1 - Member
The Maybot ought to resign & back to another election imo
I don't agree. 😛
Immediately no, few years later perhaps yes (election). 😆
When do you think is the right time? 😀
You just don't get it do you Jamba. Corbyn doesn't play your stupid little games. Your shite is as about as relevant as saying Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler. All the shots you Tories chucked about coalition of chaos, associating with terrorist sympathisers, relying on parties from 'another country' to form a coalition to rule... And surprise surprise everything you cast up you've had to scrape the bottom of the barrel for. It's called hoist by your petard. Well and ****ing truly sunshine.
And it looks exactly how it looks. Hypocritical. So, keep throwing yer shite, it's all worked out splendidly for you all so far!
Crikey ... 😯
Immediately no, few years later perhaps yes
oh absolutely
May is so gloriously incompetent and compromised with her minority government that its going just going to be interesting to see just how badly they can screw up
the longer she stays in the lower the Torys popularity will get
kimbers - Member
Immediately no, few years later perhaps yes
oh absolutely
May is so gloriously incompetent and compromised with her minority government that its going just going to be interesting to see just how badly they can screw up
Yes, to election.
However, what if Conservatives win again and PM May still the PM?
Another election of course ... 😆
The answer is simple, everyone just has to wait for the term to end no need to hurry.
the longer she stays in the lower the Torys popularity will get
I suspect the govt should take advice from the opposition in appointing the PM, coz the opposition is very concern about the person leading them. 😆
It is the other away round, the longer she stays the better she gets because people will see the stability in place after all she has just been a PM for short time.
Opposition will be in great joy if they see turmoil in the govt especially the change of leadership. I can predict that. 😆
Remember, look at Corbyn sticking two fingers up to the Labour own internal opposition ... yes, he won. 😆
Now the lesson learned. The simple rules is this hammer the opposition internally and externally just like Corbyn did. 😛