“Comfort Rating of -5deg” (Sleepingbagtrackworld)

Oldest spawn is going on a trip to the Balkans in the summer. She apparently needs a sleeping bag with a comfort rating of -5 degrees.

I’d assumed a bag that was good enough for her DofE expedition would be fine (e.g. Vango Nitestar Alpha 250) but this seems to have comfort rating of 2 degrees.

Anyone got any advice/suggestions? Thanks!

I’m assuming the organiser has good reason for a better bag being needed.

You can boost ratings through liners. One of mine has one of these, used it lots to warm a lighter Vango bag.
https://bananafingers.co.uk/sea-to-summit-thermolite-reactor-extreme-mummy-liner?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAl4a6BhBqEiwAqvrqulWpupiZJHMGKvcXSlaiHjHjlGwmiGNM828zoPFYhcV9pE9EMGOXpxoCf_kQAvD_BwE

As Matt says a liner is a good idea and adds versatility

Fwiw, good quality sleeping bags will last many many years if correctly looked after and stored properly. Paying a bit more can often be the better value option over time

A comfort of -5c would for me imply 4-season – seems a bit overkill for a Balkan summer, as in at least 2 seasons too many.

Ask them high how high they’ll be camping.

Look for a higher R value mat maybe and add in a cotton/silk liner (and as always worse case, wear clothes too).

FWIW I’ve both 2 and 3 season bags; the 2 is definitely not comfortable below 5c whereas the 3 is fine to freezing and slightly below.

I’m curious about a recommendation for a -5c bag for a Balkan summer. Seems awful warm.

I’ve emailed them to check, seemed a bit odd to me too.

The ratings are really person specific though.

One person could be chilly on a cold night in a -10 bag,  while another fine in a 2 season.

If she has a bag then would suggest doing more nights in that then see how she gets on.

With that rating of bag needed I can only imagine they might be camping high up.  But that could still be pretty warm

I’m assuming the organiser has good reason for a better bag being needed

I suspect the good reason is that it’s safer to over-spec than under-spec the requirement, and they’re not the ones paying for a possibly unnecessary additional bag. I’d be inclined to just get a liner and if the worst of a Balkan summer rears its chilly head, wear some clothes.

If I know I’m pushing my luck with the sleeping bag then I’ll pack powerstretch leggings, spare top and socks for sleeping that will Def be dry.

At the very least I’m always using a silk liner to help keep the bag itself clean, plus it reduces drafts. Oh and a hat for sleeping in. Then there’s your puffa jacket etc etc

You’ve probably packed all that anyway, but it would definitely extend the bag range.

The vango bag you have looks like a reasonable bit of kit from the specs. It is quite long so if miss is shorter, you can tie off the bottom with a cord which would mean less space to keep warm in proper chilly weather. Make use of the neck baffle , they really help on my one.

I suspect the good reason is that it’s safer to over-spec than under-spec the requirement, and they’re not the ones paying for a possibly unnecessary additional bag.

Thank you, I was trying to hint, without experience of mountains in that part of the world, it feels a rather high warmth spec. That said, I’ve frozen in a -5*c bag bag in Scotland in July before…..

Can you borrow?

If not, go with decent bag but make above freezing level, plus good mat (makes a huge difference), liner and some nice merino thermals to sleep in…

Some bargains to be had at Mountain Warehouse at the mo, eg

https://www.mountainwarehouse.com/lightweight-down-winter-sleeping-bag-p14347.aspx

I’m not being a dick on purpose, but that mountin warehouse bag sucks balls. its not very warm and it’s very heavy for the temp rating. Also every bit of gear I’ve ever had frm MW (e.g kids’ clothes and shoes) has been utter garbage and fallen to bits very quickly.

My eldest lad has the lighter weight (400g fill) version of this and for the money it’s a decent enough starter bag

https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/2396132

I’m also intrigued by requirement for -5 comfort bag for balkan summer.

Fair enough ^^^ worth knowing.

Some bargains to be had at Mountain Warehouse at the mo, eg

My experience of MW stuff is that it’s utter tosh, particularly sleeping bags. I was given two for the DofE store – they were so thin and cold we actually binned them.

Vango offer good value and much more reliable performance in my experience – we’ve three in the family both down and synthetic and they are good.

I got one of these a couple of years ago, comfort rating down to -5 and quite packable

https://www.outdoorgb.com/p/snugpak_elite_3_sleeping_bag/

Fwiw

If they are not hiking buy an army surplus artic sleeping bag, probs too much but also ace for hammocks and dirt cheap.

How long are they going for ? weekend ? Week ? Longer ?

For shorter trips in colder conditions I like to pack a number of air activated heatpacks. The type you get for aches and pains.

One in the foot area acts as a hot water bottle all night and one about the middle..

[piemonster]

piemonster

Free Member

I’m curious about a recommendation for a -5c bag for a Balkan summer. Seems awful warm.

Summer can be 30c why on earth would they need a bag that can do -5?

Get an ex-army bag. Bloody bargains. For those temps a light weight and a liner will do the job nicely.

I’m curious about a recommendation for a -5c bag for a Balkan summer. Seems awful warm.

Summer can be 30c why on earth would they need a bag that can do -5?

Get an ex-army bag. Bloody bargains. For those temps a light weight and a liner will do the job nicely.

The ratings are based on lab testing of a heated mannequin in a bag with an insulated mat. As above, in the real world, it’s quite person specific as some people sleep warmer or cooler than others and women, in particular, tend to sleep cooler than men, but also lose heat from different areas – there are women’s specific bags out there, for example, with warmer toe-box area etc.

This is Rab’s explanation of what the different ratings mean:

https://rab.equipment/uk/rab-lab/sleeping-bag-temperature-ratings-explained

I’d be doing some basic research on expected temperatures in the areas she’ll be visiting and take it from there. Alpkit is a good compromise brand when it comes to sleeping bags btw. One thing I would say, is that I’d always rather have a bag that’s too warm than one that’s too cool and I suspect that’s where all this is coming from. There’s also a difference in ratings between ‘comfort’ and ‘limit of comfort’, the latter is the temperature that someone who sleeps cool – notionally a woman – will be comfortable for eight hours sleep.

To be honest, your daughter will be better off with a bag – plus a decent mat – that’s slightly warmer than might be needed, than the other way round. I suspect the organiser has also factored in the possibility of a random, ‘worst case’ cold snap rather than a best case scenario, which seems fair enough and better than tent-fulls of shivering, complaining kids.

@Saccades They are hiking.

@dyna-ti I should know this but I think it’s ten days.

@aphex_2k The thought of an army surplus bag did cross my mind, where from these days, and how small do they pack down?

Check out the surplus places.

I know Go Army has the full kits or separate bags (liner, light weight + medium weight – combine all three is your arctic set up. Add a goretex bivvy bag and you’re good for everything). Another one is Strikeforce Army Supplies (Go Army is in Scotland, Strikeforce is down South).

I have the medium weight. It came with a compression bag but they don’t always have stock. It doesn’t compress down a lot, it’s big, hollowfibre, comfy and warm. It’s almost identical to the Carinithia Defence 4 which is probably on the bad side of 250 quid new. Super or Grade 1 ex army – the whole system (liner / light / medium) combined is 80 quid +/- and combine all three you have your Arctic sleep system.

The light weight packs down much smaller – there’s a few YouTube review vids just look for Current British Army Sleep System

Sleep systems:

Cheap, warm, light (and packable)

Pick any 2

@el_boufadour ‘Twas ever thus though, and so -5 comfort rated sleeping bags are either immense or spendy.

If hiking definitely don’t get an artic ex-army sleeping bag. It weighs more than my road bike.

[Saccades]

Saccades

Free Member

If hiking definitely don’t get an artic ex-army sleeping bag. It weighs more than my road bike.

Which army / bag are you talking about?

British army: medium bag, medium length is 4kg comfort -20 to extreme -32

light bag, medium length is 1.2kg -5 comfort

So yeah the medium isn’t light but I don”t think your road bike is sub 4kg is it now? 😛

I’m assuming you’re talking about the old style soldier 95 (iirc) down bag which was a chonky bag but superb value for money and made a great bag for night fishing over winter!

I still reckon the light weight with a liner will more than suffice

If hiking definitely don’t get an artic ex-army sleeping bag. It weighs more than my road bike.

Which army / bag are you talking about?

British army: medium bag, medium length is 4kg comfort -20 to extreme -32

light bag, medium length is 1.2kg -5 comfort

Read up on what comfort rating means. Maybe alpkit was where I saw a good article?

One persons comfortable may not be anothers. It also depends on what they are sleeping in. I assume tents, not bivvies. What is underneath them. Nice inflating mat or cheap foam thing? My wife has a colder rated bag than me for the same tent. She gets colder.

I guess the organiser has gone cautious as it’s easier to cool down and unzip the bag than deal with a cold person.

If it was me I’d take the 2C one. Buy a silk liner and be prepared to sleep in some clothes if needed. That’s been my approach on walking trips where one cold night was included amongst  many warm ones (normally one camp high up).

Cloud Peak 300

ON offer at the moment. I have it and used in pretty chilly environs… its ace. and compfy.

IMO the sleeping matt is just as, if not more important.

A comfort of -5c would for me imply 4-season – seems a bit overkill for a Balkan summer, as in at least 2 seasons too many.

No, most decent bags rated down to that only describe themselves as three season. The first on the list of Alpkit’s bags, for example:

Cloud Peak 300

My own old bag is rated to -6. I’m naked in it during a normal UK summer, in a tent. I froze my bits off it at 2000m in the Atlas mountains, without tent. I’ve never been, and not googled,, but seem to remember that the Balkans is quite mountainous – I’d not be taking a two season supermarket bag, as a friend did to the Kenyan Highlands in summer. I was cosy, he was uncomfortable.

Apart from anything else, one potential downside of an army surplus bag – or any other full-sized, sleeping bags for that matter – is that your daughter, unless she’s quite tall and broad, will be carrying unnecessary weight and bulk around and the excess space inside the bag will make it less efficient in use. Think draughts, additional air space to heat up etc.

It’s worth getting a bag that’s designed for women / shorter people for this reason alone. Some women’s-specific bags are zoned to match the areas where women are more prone than men to lose heat as well, feet. But whatever the nuances, shorter folk are better off with bags that fit them.

No, most decent bags rated down to that only describe themselves as three season. The first on the list of Alpkit’s bags, for example:

Cloud Peak 300

Except the “comfort rating” is 0c.

[BadlyWiredDog]

BadlyWiredDog

Full Member

Apart from anything else, one potential downside of an army surplus bag – or any other full-sized, sleeping bags for that matter – is that your daughter, unless she’s quite tall and broad, will be carrying unnecessary weight and bulk around and the excess space inside the bag will make it less efficient in use

But, as I mentioned, the army bags are part of a system. Meaning you have 2 bags (light and medium) and a liner. The light bag is 1.2kg and rated to -5. Of course, you could spend a sht tonne more and save a couple of hundred grams.  Considering it appears the camping is in summer where it’s potentially 30c + the campers will be carrying summer clothing. And often these things are planned so sleeping bags and big items are chucked in the back of transport and hauled to camps ahead of the campers.

Apart from anything else, one potential downside of an army surplus bag – or any other full-sized, sleeping bags for that matter – is that your daughter, unless she’s quite tall and broad, will be carrying unnecessary weight and bulk around and the excess space inside the bag will make it less efficient in use

But, as I mentioned, the army bags are part of a system. Meaning you have 2 bags (light and medium) and a liner. The light bag is 1.2kg and rated to -5. Of course, you could spend a sht tonne more and save a couple of hundred grams.  Considering it appears the camping is in summer where it’s potentially 30c + the campers will be carrying summer clothing. And often these things are planned so sleeping bags and big items are chucked in the back of transport and hauled to camps ahead of the campers.

Asked school and the answer suggests they don’t really know (teacher suggested a bag with a limit of -5 rather than comfort rating, but thought that would be fine).

Not sure about buying s/h even with a liner…