Colorado – 'too much' tax from marijuana

Colorado’s marijuana experiment has been an empirically rousing success thus far, with crime down and tourism up, and now the state has collected so much money in tax from sales of pot that it might be legally obliged to give some back.

…

Coloradans may be asked to vote on making marijuana exempt from the tax cap – the money instead being ploughed into more drug education and police training to spot stoned drivers, as marijuana legalisation is designed to pay for itself without dipping into general taxes.

Last month, a Denver police chief confirmed that a year after legalisation “everything is fine”, crime has continued to drop and police are going about their business as usual.

That’s got to be a big nail in the coffin of prohibition, surely?

Edit – wrong forum, for shame.

Lifer – Member

That’s got to be a big nail in the coffin of prohibition, surely?

Evidence and facts have little to do with it 🙁 Reefer madness.

Yeah but $$$ talk!

Last month, a Denver police chief confirmed that a year after legalisation “everything is fine”, crime has continued to drop and police are going about their business as usual.

This made me snigger. Al that’s missing is a dude or a man.

I’ve said in court (previously…when i used to grow hydroponically – not any more) that i’d quite happily pay 60% tax on possible proceeds, i worked out that once i had paid for the equipment i was able to produce an oz for the sum of £3.27, that’s taking into account electricity costs/hydroponic nutrients but not the amount of labour involved, and to do it well it does take a lot of time caring for the plants.

One crop of 10 plants = 72 oz x 4 crops a year (if you have it set up correctly) = 288 oz or 8kg give or take a few grams.

Sold at £200/oz = £57,600, at 60% tax rate thats £34,560 given in tax to the government.

Back when i was doing it i gave 50% to the MMC (Medical Marijuana Co-Op) to distribute to patients and kept some for myself, some sold to mates for £120.

So the government are missing out on hundreds of millions in possible tax revenues from home growers, not to mention the absolute fortune they could make from small scale commercial grows.

I have a couple of mates who moved over to Colorado a few years ago to get involved and they are doing rather well for themselves out there, i’ve also a mate who moved to Attalens, Switzerland to grow – must pay them a visit sometime 😀

i gave 50% to the MMC (Medical Marijuana Co-Op) to distribute to patients

Never heard of that, is it a local initiative? Great idea, speaking from experience of a friend with MS.

Could you get a US work permit on the basis of having weed growing skills? Interesting idea.

brassneck : It was a nationwide support system that enabled patients with a genuine need (MS, Glaucoma, Muscle spasms/Parkinson’s, spinal cord/bladder control/nerve pain, chemotherapy, anorexia, etc..etc) for the product to get it free of charge through a sympathetic doctors referral, some patients preferred just the bud to some/ingest as they needed (a single puff or suchlike is still the most effective/quick way to get relief for many folk), others preferred the bud to be turned into very high grade oil extract so a single drop could be used in a fatty drink/product such as a glass of milk or yoghurt (cannabinoids are fat soluble), others preferred the pure hash produced using the water extraction/bubble bag method. Advice was also given on the various methods of ingestion to new patients, i.e. the use of vaporisers etc.

Unfortunately the entire organisation/growers were ritually hounded/followed everywhere and prosecuted by the police until it became impossible to function due to continual arrests/ house raids/removal of computers/records/equipment, I’ve been out of it for over 10 years now but i’m sure it still goes on under the radar – i guess the original organisation was a victim of it’s own success as once the national papers got a whiff of the story that signalled the death of it.

One of my friends is a Crohn’s sufferer, and after a few years of prescribed drugs with nasty side effects, an operation to remove a large section of his gut and getting down to 8 stone (5’10”) he found the Mary Jane controlled his symptoms. Hasn’t had pharma for 5 odd years and is back to normal weight. He’s a big player in the social club scene that has got popular in the last couple of years along with a mate with MS who’s been on TV a few times, and they both campaign for legalisation. His major gripe at the moment is the hypocrisy of Sativex, it’s okay to grow if you’re a big corporation but have a few plants at home and you’re a criminal.

For him it’s a matter of health, I’ve seen him at times where supply is low and it’s horrible. He’s also got into a lot of dodgy situations, as prohibition puts it in the hands of criminals, and he likes to buy ‘in bulk’ so he knows he’s going to be able to function for a while at a time.

He spent 6 months in the US and Canada researching the dispensary model over there, and if the situation doesn’t change here soon I think he’ll be moving.

Are they sure that they haven’t got halfway through counting it, stopped for a spliff, and then started from the beginning again?

I tried to read this thread but kind of lost track, I’ll do it tomorrow. Pass the skins…

Ho ho ho 🙄

Are we not negating the fact that the use of marajuana whilst being smoked or vapourized causes a sharp increase in lung conditions and mental health conditions also.

Ho ho ho 🙄

So uptight, you should have a smoke and chill out.

I’m all for legalization by the way. Go Colorado.

singlesteed – Member

Are we not negating the fact that the use of marajuana whilst being smoked or vapourized causes a sharp increase in lung conditions and mental health conditions also.

No link between cannabis and lung cancer – unless smoked with tobacco.

No link between cannabis and non-predisposed mental health issues. Use at an early age shows problems however.

Lifer – Member

No link between cannabis and non-predisposed mental health issues.

Which isn’t so reassuring when you consider the spread of mental health issues… Not to be negative, weed’s far less linked to mental health issues than the demon drink.

Can you vape weed? That seems like a perfect smoky storm.

Can you vape weed?

http://www.hightimes.com/read/high-times-2014-vape-pen-buyer%E2%80%99s-guide

Soma,would your skills help someone with fibromyalgia?

Northwind – Member

Lifer – Member

No link between cannabis and non-predisposed mental health issues.

Which isn’t so reassuring when you consider the spread of mental health issues… Not to be negative, weed’s far less linked to mental health issues than the demon drink.

Sure, it’s just the knee-jerk reaction is tiresome.

Can you vape weed? That seems like a perfect smoky storm.

You certainly can. There are a lot of ‘how to’ guides on the internet which show how to made a tincture to use in e-cigs but they’re all quite involved.

But on that note

research shows vaping not as safe as advertised

“E-cigarette vapour alone produced mild effects on the lungs, including inflammation and protein damage.

“However, when this exposure was followed by a bacterial or viral infection, the harmful effects of e-cigarette exposure became even more pronounced.

“The e-cigarette exposure inhibited the ability of mice to clear the bacteria from their lungs, and the viral infection led to increased weight loss and death, indicative of an impaired immune response.”

the use of marajuana whilst being smoked or vapourized causes a sharp increase in lung conditions and mental health conditions also.

yes because cigarettes and alcohol are so healthy for you

So uptight, you should have a smoke and chill out.
I’m all for legalization by the way. Go Colorado.

agree on both of those!

No link between cannabis and lung cancer – unless smoked with tobacco.

No link between cannabis and non-predisposed mental health issues. Use at an early age shows problems however.

disagree on both of those.

carcinogens are carcinogens, they are simply chemicals, whether the source of them is tobacco or ganja or daisies is irrelevant. you’d have to be playing daft buggers to pretend smoking weed does not produce carcinogenic chemicals and that it is somehow magically safe. vaporisers are probably better though. I’m not sure if street weed is often still treated with bulking agents like those tiny glass beads that were being sprayed on a few years ago, but there is probably all kinds of horrible stuff on the stuff the kids buy on the street. cheap resin is cut with plastic and used to stink of petrol.

mental health, again just not very much research. the typical horrible skunk your kids are buying off dodgy people is really pretty nasty stuff though. I know a lot of people who smoke a lot of weed, and some of them have had real problems. There used to be a music forum called DOA that had a massive drug culture, there some very interesting, honest threads about heavy smokers and how they developed paranoia and other mental issues. It isn’t hard to imagine that something that changes your brain chemistry is over time going to cause collateral damage.

as a reference, I was a massive caner for years, and still indulge occasionally.

Are we not negating the fact that the use of marajuana whilst being smoked or vapourized causes a sharp increase in lung conditions and mental health conditions also.

you seem to be negating the fact that it also helps millions of mental health sufferers worldwide.

All Products

If it’s good enough for snoop…..

As a non-user, I’ve watched this with interest. Millions have been wasted in the war on drugs and it hasn’t worked. Thousands of users have been criminalised as a result, yet medical use by companies is encouraged.

Seems self defeating in this age of austerity. Legalisation seems to he the pragmatic approach, then some element of control of supy and quality can be done. Taxescraised and savings in the crime bill could help with education and treatment for those who do have mental health issues.

Of course, you then enter the “thin end of the wedge” as far as other drugs go.

Still, if the two lads I passed on my commute home last night are under the canal bridge again tonight creating a haze of passive smoking joy, I shall ask their views on it!

The Age of the Herb is nearly upon us.

Irie Ites.

Fair enough bigjim, but I chose my words carefully and at the moment there is no provable link – I didn’t say it was safe!

Mental health wise I think that there are people are attracted to drugs because of their mental health issues, I’ve known a few, hence the ‘pre-disposed’ caveat.

This is another problem with prohibition though, how many more people would respond to studies if the careers/relationships weren’t on the line if they were outed as ‘users’?

As such it’s quite a self-selecting group – those that are attracted to drugs in the first place and then those that respond to studies/are studied due to being in the system already.

Yeah, I just think that, uh… You know… I mean, uh…. As far as… What?

bigjim – Member

you’d have to be playing daft buggers to pretend smoking weed does not produce carcinogenic chemicals

Is there evidence to suggest that it does? Reports I’ve seen say otherwise. (or at least- no more carcinogenic than burning any less amusing hydrocarbon)

Totally agree about the issue of being cut/bulked or getting soapbar made of tarmac and tyres but then that’s a direct result of prohibition. (it’d still exist in a post-prohibition world due to blackmarketing of course, same as dodgy cigarettes exist, but that’d be a choice).

Edit – wrong forum, for shame.

I’d have thought a dope thread would be quite at home on the bike forum

I’m a massive libertarian when it comes to drugs, if people want to indulge they should be free to do so and i cant believe the government passes up the opportunity to collect massive amounts of tax on legalised regulated drugs…

….that said i’m also for coming down hard on idiots who indulge and get behind the wheel, its no different to drink driving and i detest that too.

However, even as someone who has played around with most drugs i hate the denial from cannabis devotees that their pastime has any kind of negative effects…a lot of the time rather than partake in a rational discussion they throw out the old ‘alcohol and tobacco is bad for you too’ line…well yes, we know that but lets talk about the negative effects of cannabis because its not all sunshine and rainbows despite what some people would like you to think.

This is a good comment:

carcinogens are carcinogens, they are simply chemicals, whether the source of them is tobacco or ganja or daisies is irrelevant. you’d have to be playing daft buggers to pretend smoking weed does not produce carcinogenic chemicals and that it is somehow magically safe. vaporisers are probably better though. I’m not sure if street weed is often still treated with bulking agents like those tiny glass beads that were being sprayed on a few years ago, but there is probably all kinds of horrible stuff on the stuff the kids buy on the street. cheap resin is cut with plastic and used to stink of petrol.

mental health, again just not very much research. the typical horrible skunk your kids are buying off dodgy people is really pretty nasty stuff though. I know a lot of people who smoke a lot of weed, and some of them have had real problems. There used to be a music forum called DOA that had a massive drug culture, there some very interesting, honest threads about heavy smokers and how they developed paranoia and other mental issues. It isn’t hard to imagine that something that changes your brain chemistry is over time going to cause collateral damage.

deviant – Member
However, even as someone who has played around with most drugs i hate the denial from cannabis devotees that their pastime has any kind of negative effects…a lot of the time rather than partake in a rational discussion they throw out the old ‘alcohol and tobacco is bad for you too’ line…well yes, we know that but lets talk about the negative effects of cannabis because its not all sunshine and rainbows despite what some people would like you to think.

I think I’ve explained myself pretty well.

Prohibition doesn’t work for harm reduction. I am sure most people who support the decriminalization of drugs would acknowledge that they are not the best for you.

Is there evidence to suggest that it does? Reports I’ve seen say otherwise. (or at least- no more carcinogenic than burning any less amusing hydrocarbon)

Totally agree about the issue of being cut/bulked or getting soapbar made of tarmac and tyres but then that’s a direct result of prohibition. (it’d still exist in a post-prohibition world due to blackmarketing of course, same as dodgy cigarettes exist, but that’d be a choice).

I don’t know, I’ve never looked, but I think slow combustion of organic material generally produces some pretty exciting hydrocarbons as part of the deal. People that smoke pipes with no tobacco still get horrible build up of tar and stuff in the pipe, even vaporisers need goop cleaning out.

I think the potential ill effects of weed must not be ignored and must be made aware to everyone buying, legal or not. However if I ever have kids I would far, far prefer them to buy it from a legal, regulated, traceable source, rather than some horrible cut plastic junk from some criminal who would love to sell them a range of other far more damaging drugs too.

As I said they should be researched, but the potential penalty to long-term ‘white collar’ users means that IMO the results of any study are skewed because there is a sizable part of the user base who do it in complete secrecy.

Yeah, the slow legalisation seen in the states and things like this http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/americas-top-doctor-admits-cannabis-can-be-good-for-you-10027140.html might change that eventually though.

The stigma around drugs like cannabis or mdma stopping them from even being considered for medical use is the very height of infuriating human stupidity, imho.

deviant – Member

a lot of the time rather than partake in a rational discussion they throw out the old ‘alcohol and tobacco is bad for you too’ line…

It is a reasonable point though, because the majority of people who are in favour of prohibition will drink alcohol, and would be up in arms were it to be banned- and would make the exact same arguments for keeping it legal. If I wanted to be argumentative I’d say it’s hypocrisy, but instead I’ll just say it’s a bit of cognitive dissonance that shows up the weakness of the arguments.

(and in a similiar vein, most pro-prohibition arguments will include contamination, lack of regulation, and fraternising with criminals as ill effects of weed, rather than ill effects of prohibition. It’s like putting poison in a biscuit and tying it to a rottweiler and saying biscuits are dangerous.

Put it out Mr Woppit you’ve had enough.

Legalise is the only realistic answer. If you think the so called war on drugs has been effective in any way what so ever you are a moron.
Millions of tax is being lost and millions in tax is being wasted on trying to stop people smoking pot.
I used to smoke a lot and the fact it is illegal just makes getting it a hassle sometimes but never ever never puts anyone off from buying it. All that’s happening is serious criminal gangs are now growing huge amounts in the UK and are moving into legal businesses to launder the money quite easily and effectively. They make Amazon’s tax evasion look like loose change. Really we all need to grow up and have a realistic debate and follow Colorado.
Yes weed has a negative side of course but you will never stop people smoking.

Clearly any drug has a negative side affect however two important points

1. its less than prohibition

2. its less than tobacco and alcohol

Legalising or decriminalising will happen one day

Soma,would your skills help someone with fibromyalgia?

@ zippykona – could you make contact with me please, e-mail in profile.