Clean shaven Polis

Crazy – we need more diversity in our police and this isn’t going to help.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65482560

There will be exemptions for religious, cultural, disability or medical reasons. In these circumstances, the force is seeking to introduce an alternative type of respiratory protection.

I’ve got a beard, I’ve previously worked jobs where shaving it off was a requirement to wear a face mask. Seems reasonable that working in the Police you’re probably reasonably likely to come across situations where wearing a mask is necessary?

It’s in Scotland, who recently have a reputation for implementing poorly thought through policies recently.

Same as TINAS. I generally have a beard but have had to shave it to work on sites where I may have to wear a mask/get a face fit test.

I currently work in a role where I need to be clean shaven for RPE so excuse me if I have limited sympathy.

If you have to potentially respond to chemical incidents and wear the appropriate PPE then thems the breaks, better that than another casualty.

Seems a perfectly reasonable policy to me, for the reasons above.

A load of fuzz over nothing?

Strange then how no other police force has introduced this measure, indeed PSNI tried and had to pay out and revoke it.

Can’t really see civilian staff in frontline roles (gaolers? desk staff?) dealing with chemical incidents either

I’m going for Pieface’s theory.

Unsurprisingly the Federation are angry about this, it is their job to be angry about stuff.  But, it seems to me that if the force said, we won’t issue FFP3 masks so you’ll just have to take your chances at fire/chemical/traffic/terror type incidents with unknown hazards flying around that the Federation would also be angry.

Seems reasonable that working in the Police you’re probably reasonably likely to come across situations where wearing a mask is necessary?

Why though do you get a pass for religious/other reasons? It’s either necessary or not. Sounds like its just badly thought out policy being handed down to me.

There must be an opt out if you want to surely? Personal choice etc…

I cannot see a policy sticking that mandates shaving after having allowed it for so long – so I can see a new recruit with a beard who is now told to shave it off having a bit of a grievance with it all.

There are protections under various pieces of legislation for religious/cultural reasons, so I can see a few hairy polis officers self declaring as Muslim/Sikh/Mountain Biker/Lumberjack/Hipster etc…

There was an employment tridbunal in Northern Ireland about this a few years back apparently too. The PSNI lost…

OP – chapeau on the use of the Scots word Polis. Love that word.

Common place policy for numerous jobs that require some kind of mask as PPE.

Apparently some of the cops have launched legal challenges.

Pathetic.

Common place policy for numerous jobs that require some kind of mask as PPE

Whenever we see a cop appearing in court under a charge they seem more than happy to wear a face mask..

There will be exemptions for religious, cultural, disability or medical reasons. In these circumstances, the force is seeking to introduce an alternative type of respiratory protection.

If the cops are happy to hand over special PPE to people with beards, why are they saying that people need to be clean shaven to wear PPE…

I don’t think any of them look old enough to grow facial hair.

Apparently some of the cops have launched legal challenges.

Well as the law requires that an employer must provide appropriate PPE if a risk assessment has identified it as an appropriate control and that the employee must use the PPE when supplied, not sure what challenge could be made?

That’s my understanding, IANAL or HSE manager.

Why though do you get a pass for religious/other reasons? It’s either necessary or not.

If the cops are happy to hand over special PPE to people with beards, why are they saying that people need to be clean shaven to wear PPE…

Exactly my first thought. I can only assume that the ‘special PPE’ (whatever that is?) is more expensive, so they don’t want to allocate it to everyone.

My views on special treatment for religious reasons are well documented so I’m not going to poke that particular nest. I’m curious though as to what possible disability or medical issue would require someone to grow a beard? FFP3 is a pretty hardcore requirement, I wouldn’t want to be playing silly buggers in an environment which needed it.

Well as the law requires that an employer must provide appropriate PPE if a risk assessment has identified it as an appropriate control and that the employee must use the PPE when supplied, not sure what challenge could be made?

They could argue the employer hadn’t given enough thought to alternative control measures that would be effective in the risk assessment before mandating the use of PPE as PPE is the last step in the hierarchy of control.

They could argue the employer hadn’t given enough thought to alternative control measures that would be effective in the risk assessment before mandating the use of PPE as PPE is the last step in the hierarchy of control.

They could. But I would expect that the police force would have a pretty robust HIRA that would show that they have.

For those of us who have had to go through the fit test procedure regularly, you’ll know that the requirement is “freshly shaven”. You could fail a fit test 8 hours later so kind of buggers you up on a 12 hour shift.

There’s plenty of RPE that doesn’t need the wearer to shave, it’s just more expensive.

They could argue the employer hadn’t given enough thought to alternative control measures that would be effective in the risk assessment before mandating the use of PPE as PPE is the last step in the hierarchy of control.

You could argue the same about stab vests and steel toecap boots to be fair.

I’m bald and therefore consider having a beard as a necessity. Mainly because the alternative is resembling Casper the Friendly Ghost. The thing that annoys me most is that most of the ones whining have probably got piss poor not really beards. If your neck is still visible you’re simply not trying.

Oi mister, you’ve got your head on upside down.

There was an employment tridbunal in Northern Ireland about this a few years back apparently too. The PSNI lost…

you have to be careful comparing court cases, especially employment tribunal cases as they very much revolve on their own specific facts and circumstances.  From a brief read of that case the officer did have a beard but reduced it to a tache so it would not stop the mask sealing.  His tache was small enough that it was not affecting the seal. PSNI applied their strict no tache no beard rule and moved him to another role where he would not need to use a mask.  He claimed sex discrimination because they strictly applied a dress code style policy to him (with no objective evidence it affected his ability to wear a mask) but did not strictly apply other parts of the dress code policy about hair length to women.

It does not automatically follow that because PSNI made an arse of things that Police Scotland will too (although they are perfectly capable of screwing up themselves).  A carefully applied policy with sensible reviews and flexibility evenly and fairly applied could avoid the pitfalls PSNI found.