Child stealing from home and covert CCTV / spy gadgets – any tips?

@plyphon – Ok, I see your point, thanks for taking the time to clarify that. I’m curious about the right to privacy interpretation though; I respect people’s right to privacy, but I don’t think my daughter’s right to privacy extends to my wife & I’s bedroom. What about our right to privacy? I don’t like having my drawers rifled through, clothing removed and worn without asking. Mrs. B most definitely objects to that.

newrobdob – I like your thinking! lol.

The daughter is point blank refusing to admit any wrong doing. If the OP then decides to get some sort of mediation, counselling or persistently trying to coax information out of her, does this not show the daughter that the OP has absolutely no trust in what she says? I think this would be more detrimental to the relationship than getting hard evidence and then working on the issues.

For me, it’s either getting hard evidence sensitively or avoiding the issue and hoping things get better.

Not easy!

Some great advice given on this thread.

Jeepers! Its stuff like this that makes me really glad I don’t have kids

I really can’t think of any solutions without bad outcomes but my gut feeling is not covert cameras but overt ones ie tell everyone cameras are going in and put them in. Either the thefts stop ( most likely) or the proof is there.

Covert cameras would be wrong in my view because what would you do with the evidence?

Have a think about motives – is it a cry for help / attention? Is the money needed for something? Is it just a way of getting back at the second wife?

HOpe it gets sorted, sorry I can’t offer anything constructive

Thanks gonzy. Wise words. 🙂

Thank you, Pierre – savour every second, especially whilst their whole world consists of you!

Thanks surroundedbyhills – late teenagers like to think that they’re the business, but they are still very much children at that age. I wouldn’t be a teenager again. (21, now that I would consider!)

@tjagain – thanks for taking the time to consider and comment! I think you make a very good point about covert vs. overt. Overt systems tend to be a lot more expensive, invasive to install, and ugly! Then there’s the whole Big Brother thing, that I’m not overly comfortable with.

And you’re right, it’s kind of a lose / lose situation. Dammit!

Shaky legal ground made all the more shaky by

How about a camera IN the draw

It’s a drawer!!

Good luck to the OP. As a parent I’ve first hand experience of the mysterious occurrences for which no one is to blame, though all minor by comparison. I’d probably ask the older sibling to invite discussion with the younger to see if that provided any insight. I presume all is well at school and there’s no noticeable change in her social patterns/friendship circle etc that would provide a clue. Do you know any parents of friends to ask if they’re experiencing any issues of late?
I might take added security precautions but being the way I am means I’d want to find the culprit and solve the underlying cause rather than potentially pushing any thieving outside of the home.
Really tricky so again good luck!

I’ll be perfectly honest, i’ve read nearly all the comments on this it is a really hard call. I think all you can do is make it clear you have concerns, but that she is your daughter and you’re there if she has any issues and she wants to talk.

From my experience of teenagers the harder you push them, the harder they push back.

Also as the parent of a Type 1 (my daughter is just shy of 7 years old though), i am dreading her teenage years, you have to remember that insulin a hormone and that she is at a point in her life where her hormones are going mad, so the teenage years are going to three times as hard. It is a medical condition that can leave both parents and the sufferer bitter at times, and she will be seeing her friends do things that she will struggle to do, a time where bad diet and cheap cider are the norm.

overt camera need not be expensive – go pro with motion sensing would do

Haven’t read it all so this may have been mentioned earlier, and I talk from experience.
Was there a noticable change in behaviour around the time of the divorce?
Was it a messy divorce?
Is she struggling to find her place in the new family units of falling between two stools?
Is she jst calling for the attention that she may not be getting (the attention she needs and not the attention you think she needs).
A camera is very likely to blow up in your face at some time in the future, maybe not the immediate future, but it’s likely to blow.
Sounds like a cry for help from the poor girl.
Find out what she wants before wading in with accusations or cameras.
EDIT: I’ve read a bit more and see that she’s growing up with a bitter mother who argues with the father and in a world where here father doesn’t trust her. She’s screaming for attention and her actions will only get worse unitl she gets it.

I’m not sure about surveillance in this case. However, rather than cameras, what about ‘securing’ the drawer with some sort of motion sensor which could send you a text when the drawer (or room door) opens? It would allow you to determine who was in the house at the time, and if you were also around you might be able to just ‘bump into them’.

What about one of those exploding snake from a tin things wedged in the draw?

Didnt mean to be dark earlier, just that we were almost two pages into a partner/female issue and nobody had mentioned the STW standard solution.

Bombers In a booby trap which swing down when she opens the door.

Remote controlled irrigation which injects wee into her (designer) shoes if a drawer with valuables in it is opened.

Sorry to hear that – they can be such sly little buggers. How did you find out?

We’ve a squeaky floorboard in our bedroom and on this occasion Mrs Z heard it and asked what Dan was doing in the bedroom. He was caught off guard and started to deny it. Mrs Z explained how she knew and they all went upstairs and it was obvious what he’d been up to. He fessed up and also came clean to the copper who was called.

Of course by the time the solicitor got involved it was a very different story. He went to court and got a fine. Whoopee.

He stolen from others and his parents. Old habits die hard it seems.

DrawER! FFS people, we’re better than this.

Incidentally, does she know the insurance has paid out? That might legitimise the thefts, if she knows that it’s a “victimless crime” cos you’ll get the money back.

“It’s such a shame we’ve lost granny’s earrings, we had a buyer lined up and were going to put the money towards taking you to Florida / buying you a car / shoes and handbags, but we can’t afford it now.”

I’m out of particularly useful ideas in such a difficult situation.
It does seem that communication is the best solution – if challenging and torturous…

Good luck. We had hysterics last night when I informed mine she would be repaying the £45 monthly ‘fee’ taken off my credit card after she signed up for VIP membership of Fabletics. ‘But I didn’t know that would happen’, ‘It’s clearly stated in these emails they sent you’, ‘But I didn’t read them’, ‘That’s why you’re £45 poorer’. So I don’t envy you this far more complex problem. Good luck.

EVERYONE! JUST EVERYBODY!

Wow. I’m quite overwhelmed, to be honest. Thank you all SO MUCH for finding the time to read through the thread and come back with such diligent, honest and perceptive comments. It truly has been a massive, massive help.

With a situation, such as I have appealed to you, there are very few people that you can turn to; maybe a couple of closest members of family, maybe a couple of nearest and dearest trusted friends. aAside from that it’s quite ‘taboo’. This exchange of opinion and perspective within a forum of trust is something that I could never have experienced in the non-cyber world. I hope you all realise what an amazing thing this STW Forum is; a trusted community, friends and most cherished council.

Thank you all. 🙂

P.S. There’s many of you that I want to personally respond to, but that might have to wait for a bit, as life intervenes. Cheers all.

Ok, this is an off the wall suggestion, based on having been a teenage girl.

My gran used to give me things, little bits of jewellery that had been important to her. They were not valuable but somehow being given things that had been part of her life was immensely precious to me. I don’t know if everyone is the same, but my head was full of stories, and objects took on lots of significance. I suspect that I (also) pinched a few things as a child – not thinking I was stealing them but because they were parts of a story going on in my head so I needed to keep hold of them.

Anyway, why don’t you try just randomly buying her the kinds of things you think she’s stolen? Take her out and get her to choose a special lipstick. Suggest you’d like to buy her some jewellery, or give her something that you think she covets? Maybe your wife could take her out shopping?

I know it’s a bit of an odd thing to do, but perhaps she wants that connection and hasn’t got a way of asking for it? If your new marriage has more stability and general happiness than living with your ex, maybe she’s just subconsciously reaching out and trying to hold onto some of that for herself?

It might not have any effect, but it’s not really an expensive thing to do and it might give you a different conversation without going down the cameras route.

How about a camera IN the draw
It’s a drawer!

Don’t be so presumptious. He might be hiding the camera in amongst his stash

A little update.

We opted against the cctv route, on consideration, for many of the reasons outlined here and because we just didn’t really want to live in that sort of a home. However the suspicion has been slowly gnawing at us, compounded when I think I caught my daughter trying to shoplift on a family outing. A few other things have been noticed as absent (one of my wife’s dresses, etc.)

I’ve also, in the interim, been around every single cash converter type pawn shop, market trader, jewellers etc. in the region with details of the jewellery that was missing, trying to make it too hot to touch. Nothing came of that.

So, day before yesterday during a conversation with Ex/daughter’s mother, i asked if she seemed to be being a bit ‘flash with the cash’, possibly beyond her means. Yes, she has. I told Ex about the missing items, whereby she said she would look for them in daughter’s room.

I took daughter out to talk about the counselling that I had already booked regarding some of her other issues, and received a photo text from Ex saying “is this the box?”.

Yes.

Dog walk complete I take her to a cafe, and calmly confront her with the evidence.

Flat denial.

“Really? Your mother has just found this in your room. It’s got the jewellers address on the inside of the box.”

Denial.

Skip a bit, she confesses.

Subsequent conversation, she admits that she doesn’t know why she took them, despite my alerting her to the financial and sentimental value, and having given her opportunities to return the jewellery, with subtle hints, like “I hope they’ll just turn up, we’ve probably just misplaced them.”

She admitted to being a kleptomaniac, and that she wanted to return them but couldn’t. She revealed that she is having suicidal thoughts again, and that she just doesn’t want to be here. Just wanted everything to go back to how it was before 2012 (T1 diabetes diagnosis).

After suitable reassurances and that despite the proof of the crime, we still loved her, wanted her in our home (terms and conditions apply) and would do everything that we could to support her, including paying for private counselling, I drove her to her other home, whereby she retrieved and returned the earrings.

Since then, I’ve discussed the situation with at least two child counsellors and arranged family psychotherapeutic counselling, informed her school of events, informed her doctor and am due to discuss reengaging Cams (Child mental heath team) and whether she ought to be sectioned. I have informed the insurance company and repaid the monies, and notified key family members. Obviously I have discussed this with my wife and my ex, although the ex is reluctant for daughter to engage in any counselling that involves my wife and I.

I’ve not pressed charges or notified the police . . . yet.

Any thoughts?

Cheers, M

you seem to be doing what any good parent would do and have handled the difficult situation well.
I wish you luck in it all.

A criminal record will in no way help her now or in later life

My thoughts are “there should be more dads like you”.

Top man. Well done.

Tough situation.

Your daughter needs professional help, that almost seems certain.

All you can do is support her as a family should and help her to get help.

A bit of thumbs up for your ex too.

I seem to remember some negativity towards her (can’t be bothered going back to re-read) but she came good when you worked together and didn’t blindly side with your daughter.

You’re a great dad, and even your ex comes out of this far better than I expected. Your new wife sounds pretty understanding too.

Delighted you got the earings back.

I hope it all gets worked out.

OP, I hope that as a parent, I can handle difficult situations as well as you have.

@bodgy

Sounds like you handled the situation properly, well done to you and your ex.

You mentioned that your daughter is T1 and craves a simpler time, before she had to deal with the condition. FWIW, stepson two is T1 and he was diagnosed aged twelve. The diagnosis was cataclysmic for him, he had a terrible, terrible time culminating in a violent incident when he lashed out at me. A T1 diagnosis at a young age can make a teenager feel a total loss of control, especially if she’s struggling to manage blood sugars and testing regime.

First thing first, if your daughter isn’t already using an insulin pump, then perhaps you might have a talk with her about being trained to use one. You might also discuss contacting her consultant to arrange for counselling. If she can claw back some control over her life then it’ll improve the situation in the long run.

You’re doing the right thing, reassurance is key and I commend you on how you’ve dealt with this.

Well done; CAMS are ace, they will be a massive benefit. But not as much as your parenting skills.

One thought – sectioning really should be the last resort and adds to stigma. It can be useful but IMO you would be best to avoid it. You appear to have got a dialogue started so hopefully that is a step you won’t need. Do everything you can to keep her out of psychiatric hospitals

As others have said – good man for managing this well.

Thank you all.

@PJM1974 – She’s got a continuous glucose monitoring scanner, which has massively improved her willingness to test, I’ll look into the pump, but I’ve always thought that she should in control of her bloods ‘analogue’ before going ‘digital’. There’s quite lot going on at the mo! But I will look into it.

Sounds like you’ve handled it perfectly, to me.

Most importantly it sounds like you’re all rebuilding the trust with each other.

Good luck with it all, but it sounds like you handled the really hard bit with the sensitivity it required

Nice one! 😀

My two thoughts

1/ I have a nearly 13 and a nearly 11 pair of daughters. Eldest is already having teenage moments but I hope I don’t have these kinds of problems

2/ On the other hand if I do, my new mantra is ‘what would bodgy do?’ because you sound like exactly the sort of Dad I am aspiring to be.

I agree about sectioning, as I don’t think she is an imminent risk to herself, but we do have sufficient grounds should it become necessary.

Similarly, I am not pressing charges owing to the life long affects, but I don’t mind having the option as a card up my sleeve, should I need leverage. It would be a far better outcome if she were to willingly engage with the family counselling process, rather than be forced into it.

Wife and I have decided that we do need her to engage with the counselling before we can have her overnight in our house again, but the first session is booked for monday, so we’ll not have to wait long to see how it goes.

@theotherjonv – awww, shucks! This forum really helped.

Bodgy, I’m glad this has worked out in an amicable way for you all. Hopefully it will help build bridges between both yourself and your daughter as well as between you and your ex.

As long as you show the loving and level headed parenting you have done then she should be able to grow through this.

I wish you all the best of luck

4130

Yes top dad.

well done OP for dealing with the matter in the best way possible. youve done all the right things.
i agree that getting the police involved isnt the best solution but now that its out in the open hopefully your daughter can now see that help is available
keep doing what youre doing. keep talking to her…even little things like a text message to see how she is doing or feeling. make sure she knows that youre there to listen to her and also make sure that your ex and your current wife also do this. the more support your daughter has the better it will be for her.
the first step in dealing with this situation was always going to be the hardest and you’ve taken that step brilliantly…but now is when you need to build on that to safeguard your daughters mental and emotional well being.
even if your ex is uncomfortable about dealing with this with your current wife…you’ll need to get her to understand that its not about what she wants…its about your daughter…shes the priority now. your ex is going to have to put her issues with your wife to one side and the 3 of you need to work together to make sure the family support mechanisms are in place for your daughter.
TBH i think your daughter also needs to be applauded…admission to having a problem (even after the initial denials) is always the hardest step…she did well in recognising that she has a problem and admitting to it.
be strong and just be there for her and make sure she knows that…good luck buddy