Ched Evans

He is a convicted rapist on licence not an innocent man wronged in error. She didn’t even testify to the events, he was convicted on his own statement.

Should he play football at pro level again, in front of crowds of men, women and children sponsored by brands wanting to be associated with the team and the game? – Of course not.

Football is a morally bereft sport and as such, it’s hardly surprising that they would put cash (from results, I understand that he’s a decent player and would likely improve many clubs’ scorelines) ahead of any kind of morals. Luckily people in general are a little more interested in the moral aspect of hiring him and don’t like that.

Exactly. In the vast majority of occupations, try getting rehired after a rape conviction and see how far you get.

That he is even being considered to be resigned shows how money can be put before just about anything.

A mid-level manager gets convicted of rape = Enjoy cleaning toilets for a living.

A mid-level footballer gets convicted of rape = Well he is a good striker and could potentially score well for the club……….

Nine people were convicted with naming and harassing the victim, one was his cousin who also labeled her ‘a money grabbing slut’, refused to apologise and said that she didn’t want to pay her the court- mandated compensation. Another couple were friends and I think one was another professional footballer?

Then that is shameful. I’m not intimate with the case, so didn’t know that.

I think the question is, are convicted criminals rehabilitated by doing the time the courts set out for them to do, or not.

If not, our whole legal system is pointless and any convicted criminal may as well be put to death

The system cannot rehabilitate only the offender can rehabilitate themselves, it can only start once the offender has accepted their offence and start to show true remorse.

This as we all know is not going to happen with Chedders at the moment due to his appeal. If he had any tact/common sense he would have kept a very low profile after his release, got a nice quiet job somewhere and awaited the outcome of his appeal.
He hasnt done this probably because he is pretty stupid, this stupidity is revealed by his lack of understanding regarding the disgusting, misogynistic way he and his mates humiliated a young girl

Which just shows you how morally barren the sport is.

Perhaps (and I tend to agree) but it is the media that is causing the frenzy – I am quite sure he’d have done a deal before now had the media not made the sponsors of these teams think twice about their relationship with the respective clubs purely because of the media-driven backlash.

lunge – Member

So, let’s assume for the moment he is guilty, let’s also assume that as he is unrepentant he is not considered in any way rehabilitated. With that info, lets try and find a job for him that will keep the wider society safe from him re-offending.

You want a job where:
He will have minimal contact with females, non of which will be unsupervised.
His face will be well known (so people can avoid him) and he will find it very difficult to change his appearance without thousands of people noticing.
Him taking the job means his time away from work will also be closely observed.
He will earn enough that he will not be a burden on the tax payer.

You know those crews who come in at night and clean the factory after it’s closed? Something like that would fulfill your criteria. But since he’s been a professional footballer for several years at a high level, and since the dole is means tested, he it’s fair to assume he can survive off his previous earnings thus not being a burden to the taxpayer.

Like it or not pro footballers are in the public eye and are news. The kicker here is that he is unrepentant. He genuinely still believes that he did absolutely nothing wrong. That makes him a borderline psychopath in my book. So he shouldn’t be employed by a football club as a player.

If he had pleaded gullity, begged forgiveness, apologised for being young and stupid and started to behave like a changed character things would be different in my opinion. He would still be a rapist but I could live with efforts to rehabilitate him under those circumstances.

Which just shows you how morally barren the sport is.

Damn right. The level of sexism in the clubs’ boardrooms shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, but the club owners’ failure to see the supporters’/sponsors’ outrage is astonishing.
Guilty or innocent, Ched Evans has brought the game into disrepute. I’m sure the FA have bylaws about that…
maybe they don’t though. 🙄

….and of course, the club has jumped at the opportunity to release the decision to hire him on a day when the news media will be very pre-occupied.

You know those crews who come in at night and clean the factory after it’s closed? Something like that would fulfil your criteria.

Would it?
He’d be away from public view so able to change appearance and move around unchallenged.
He would also be more likely to have contact with females.

I think the guy is an absolute scum bag, a horrible, horrible person. But, assuming he will get work somewhere, the football pitch is a better place than most for him to do so

The kicker here is that he is unrepentant. He genuinely still believes that he did absolutely nothing wrong. That makes him a borderline psychopath in my book

But as others have stated this wasn’t a clear cut case – maybe he does believe hes innocent. Strikes me his life would be made a whole lot easier if he stood up and apologised, and he surely knows this. Maybe just maybe hes refusing to do this as he is adamant he didn’t rape her ?

Given the case is still up for review, what happens if it turns out hes found innocent?

unge

I think the guy is an absolute scum bag, a horrible, horrible person. But, assuming he will get work somewhere, the football pitch is a better place than most for him to do so

Why the **** does he need to work at any rate? The guy was on £20,000 a week, and incidentally he continued to be paid £20k a week by his club while in jail. If he hasn’t amassed a very large fortune then you can add idiot to his list of character traits.

The Daily Fail has published an article decrying the ‘lynch mob mentality’ that is the ‘hounding’ of Evans

Satire is now officially dead. RIP.

Served his sentence

Need consistency – agree on double standards

Let him seek to play and let clubs decide if they want to employ him

If not footie, he can always work for Jamie O

and since the dole is means tested, he it’s fair to assume he can survive off his previous earnings thus not being a burden to the taxpayer.

Not all footballers earn the same as Wayne Rooney or John Terry, you do know that don’t you? And a great deal of them do end up penniless on their exit from the game – usually due to their own ineptitude granted, but penniless all the same.

did I miss the bit where we were discussing sectarian chanting at Old Firm games and not chants in support of a convicted unrepentant rapist still serving his sentence?

You missed the point whether deliberate or not I dont know
Football fans chanting unpleasant things is the fault f football fans – though the FA may blame the club for failing to control their fans- it is not the fault of the players on the pitch.
If the internet has made up chants this is still no this fault.

Perhaps (and I tend to agree) but it is the media that is causing the frenzy

I think its the various clubs own supporters who are getting passionate about the issue, its not something dreamed up entirely by the press.

Supporters want to be able to cheer for their players.

Why the **** does he need to work at any rate? The guy was on £20,000 a week. If he hasn’t amassed a very large fortune then you can add idiot to his list of character traits.

You spend to your means, if you’re used earning £1m a year I suspect your lifestyle is based around that, so big mortgage, expensive cars, expensive tastes.

I’ll reiterate, I think he is pond life but he is pond life that will sooner or later have to find work, and football is a very good option for him when looked at objectively.

jimjam – Member

Exchange the word footballer for MP

MPs are public representatives in a position of trust, footballers aren’t. I don’t think it’s equivalent.

TBH I think anyone that considers modern footballers to be role models, should probably be locked up. Past that, it’s messy. He seems like a total shitehawk and I wouldn’t want my ticket money to go to him, and personally I wouldn’t want to work with him, but I think the basic rights and wrongs are, he still has a right to work and his job isn’t one that requires him to be a good person.

. Whereas (quite rightly) turning up after someone is too drunk to consent and having sex with them is bang out of order (to put it mildly).

She asked Evans to perform oral sex on her and he obliged , that then became intercourse . If I had been in his position I would have assumed consent was given although I would have baulked at the original request given that my mate had been there very recently .

maybe he does believe hes innocent

That’s sort of the point – he raped someone but thinks he didn’t. That’s why he’s unfit for re-integration into society.

Only way I can see is that the court were happy that buying someone a few drinks and snogging them earlier on in the night* gives some sort of consent in advance.

The girl met Evans mate outside a kebab shop, no drinks were bought, no snogging was done afaik. The girl didn’t drink more between meeting Evans mate and Evans showing up.

If I had been in his position I would have assumed consent was given

Really? I think most people here would have said “put some clothes on luv, let’s get you home”.

He can get a job in football doing all sorts of other things that don’t pay 20k a week. Like a groundsman for example.

it wasn’t that long ago historically speaking he could of been hung, the still hung rapists way in to the 20th century! o the good old days 🙂

Tpbiker – I was very briefly a semi-pro sportsman. I was around guys like this , what I read about the culture and circumstances regarding this case was so familiar from a small hardcore of guys I knew. They shamlessly used drunk and silly young women. They knew what they were doing, They knew it was on the ‘edge’ of what was right. They justified it partly because of herd mentality and partly because they were having sunshine blown up their arses as young pro rugby players. They stopped doing it after a while because it was cruel and nasty. But they didn’t get ‘caught’. He did. And what he did was wrong both morally and in the eyes of the law. And he had probably been doing it for years.

And he had probably been doing it for years.

Glad I’m not the only one who thought this, there is no way in the world this is the first time he has partaken in this kind of behaviour.

Details

https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evans

Balance of probability for me is that the room was hired for exactly the purpose it was used for.

thm, as has been pointed out multiple times, he is still serving his sentence. Do keep up.

JY, you’re missing my point – though I’m sure it’s not deliberate on your part. I’m not bothered whose fault the chants are. They wouldn’t be there if there wasn’t a convicted unrepentant rapist whose victim is arguably made to suffer more than him. That’s my issue. If it takes moral outrage to hound him from the game, then so be it. It’s the one time (that I can think if recently) in which it’s entirely justified. He’s a scumbag of the lowest order, and there are multiple reasons why he shouldn’t be on a pitch being cheered by the general public. Btw, I googled for stuff that has been sung, not what had been made up on the Internet. Not sure what your point was there.

Anyway, sectarian chants – was there a thread on that or can we stick to the persecution of poor Ched?

the guy was found guilty hes served his time. time to move on.

it wasn’t that long ago historically speaking he could of been hung, the still hung rapists way in to the 20th century! o the good old days 

Pictures are hung, people are hanged. Hanging is even more abhorrent than the crime he committed. How would that make it right.

road map to verdict

1 did the complainant consent to sex if yes not guilty
2 if no did the defendant on reasonable grounds believe the complainant consented to sex if yes not guilty.
3 only if you are sure the complainant did not consent to sex and the defendant did not on reasonable grounds believe she consented can you return a verdict of guilty.

so football man number one I met this bird took her back to the hotel she seemed up for it we had sex she was keen logical verdict not guilty even if the jury believed she was not in fact giving meaningful consent.
so football man number two my mate was shagging this bird in a hotel so me and two others sneaked round while he was doing it never met her before, never spoke to her but it was obvious she would want it cos I’m a dead famous footballer so I had her too then ran away before she sobered up . not unsurprising that the jury convict footballer number two even if they cant be sure of number ones guilt.

As to employment he has been released at the automatic half way point there has been no risk assessment . If his release was discretionary he would have been assessed as unsuitable for release as he was not acknowledging guilt or expressing remorse the system views someone who refuses to accept their proven acts to be wrong as a continuing danger. He ought to be employed it would be beneficial but he has no right to be employed in any particular profession and indeed many professions including football would bar him from certain roles .

It is entirely understandable that some one seeking employment in a “public” role will be subject to public scrutiny and debate and that some employers will not want that sort of publicity.

His supporters website and their actions are beneath contempt .

hes served his time

That’s true, modulo the ‘released on licence’ thang, but that doesn’t mean he has the right to walk right back into his old life.

It was not deliberate DD and I, now, understand your view.
One of those if you feel this strongly, and I see why, you need to campaign for a change in law.

You are right it wont be pretty when he plays and he is a scumbag but even scumbags are allowed to work.

That’s sort of the point – he raped someone but thinks he didn’t. That’s why he’s unfit for re-integration into society.

Or think of it another way, he didn’t rape her and in her shame of what she allowed to happen she decided to say it was rape. He still believes this to be the case and therefore remains unrepentant.

Or think of it another way

Well, anyone can invent a scenario, but it seems a bit pointless. The best we know about the case is what the court decided, based on evidence including Evans’s account.

I was being devil’s advocate there. Only three people really know what happened and people are rightly/wrongly convicted all the time. No-one can assume he was guilty simply based on the assumption that he’s a bit of a **** footballer.

so football man number two my mate was shagging this bird in a hotel so me and two others sneaked round while he was doing it never met her before, never spoke to her but it was obvious she would want it cos I’m a dead famous footballer so I had her too then ran away before she sobered up . not unsurprising that the jury convict footballer number two even if they cant be sure of number ones guilt.

That’s not quite correct (or at least not what was stated in court) – both the footballers say she consented with Evans and I don’t thing there was any strong dispute of that (as the victim says she can’t remember anything). The jury (and the judge) said that it should have been obvious to Evans that she couldn’t consent. Evans view (and the recollection of McDonald) is that she consented and actively participated. A hotel member who was listening outside(!) thought the sex sounded consentual as well.

It’s a confused situation though because effectively what the jury found is that at the moment Evans walked into the room McDonald and the victim were engaged in consentual sex, but on Evans asking if he could have sex with her too (and getting told yes) that sex was non consentual and therefore rape.

He has been released and should be free to play football again. However I dont want to pay to watch him do it and I’m not alone in this.

You are right it wont be pretty when he plays and he is a scumbag but even scumbags are allowed to work.

I don’t disagree. I don’t feel he is entitled to work on a football field (ok he can cut the grass while nobody’s there). (And I do feel that the fact that his job was being a footballer is a special case, yes.)

As I (think) I said earlier, I couldn’t give two hoots about the law in this case…I’m happy for public outrage (and it is the public and sponsors, not the media) to cause what needs to be done to be done. I won’t be campaigning for a change – maybe the outrage will lead to something. Clearly, this case is showing that there are nuances not previously examined.