cartridge bearings better than well maintained ball bearings?

Cynic al – once a cup an cone wears it can never be 100% no matter how you adjust it, Wear is wear. These bearings have hardened surfaces

Anyone who claims as you did that a rough and pitted bearing will wear smooth shows your lack of mechanical sympathy.

TandemJeremy – Member
Cynic al – once a cup an cone wears it can never be 100% no matter how you adjust it, Wear is wear. These bearings have hardened surfaces

Anyone who claims as you did that a rough and pitted bearing will wear smooth shows your lack of mechanical sympathy.

I don’t see how wear itself (rather than corrosion and pitting) has any effect – you adjust to compensate. However you barely see any significant wear – it’s 99% corrosion and pitting….which I HAVE SEEN WITH MY OWN EYES wear smooth again.

Shame you have to make this personal and say I have “no mechanical sympathy” (whatever that means – and I did ask you not to get personal). For me the hub has to rotate in a reliable and low friction manner. I don’t need the innards to stand up to microscopic inspection or have hermetically sealed hygiene – what on earth is the point in spending money on that? Just so you can say you have “mechanical sympathy”? Your “mechanically sympathetic” hubs are doing their job no better, you’ve just spent more money on them.

I guess I am the only one old enough to remember servicing cup and cone BBS with screw in cups and a lockring.

My Dawes Super Galaxy tandem has two such BBs. I serviced them at about 20 years. And needn’t have bothered. They are soooo smooth, far better than the indestructible UN71s.

I also much prefer servicing cup and cone hubs. All you need is a decent set of cone spanners and a little mechanical sympathy.

My experience of any kind of ball-bearing bearing wear is that it isnt even, you get that rollercoaster effect. Why is that?

djaustin – no way on mtbs, they require too much servicing.

sugdenr I don’t know what you mean…unless it’s the cone wear you are talking about?

I guess I am the only one old enough to remember servicing cup and cone BBS with screw in cups and a lockring.

I had a similar bb on my first Rockhopper. I managed to strip the thread on my crank so I couldn’t get at it to service it and I kept in running for a very long time by pouring oil down the seat tube.

A wheel built on an XTR hub will spin fantastically for a long time.
A wheel built on a DT240 will spin pretty well for a while
A wheel built on a Pro 2 will do a few revolutions and stop

What is the criteria for ‘better’?

They roll better and smoother. They are heavier and there is potential to do more catastrophic damage. Yes you can replace cups from a donor hub, but if you do that on an XTR hub (or need to do it on some Dura Ace wheels as a friend did) then that’s a lot more expensive than some cartridge bearings.

Cartridge bearing are idiot proof, generally less maintanence, lighter, but don’t roll as well.

On balance I’d choose cartridge bearing, but wouldn’t shy away from decent cup and cone at all.

I have spent most of this week seriving peoples rough and losse hubs. New balls of grade 25 or better, good quality grease such as rock n rolls super web or similiar and they run smooth again. Some customers just do not reliase how bad they have become. However any pitting on the cones means they must be replaced. Any pitting on the hub means a new hub but hubs only pit/brinel if poor quality bearing are used or they are left to run dry and riden. Weldite bearings for example are grade 1000 I believe, utterly pointless in an engineering application.

I have cartidge bearings in my hope hubs and loose ball in my shimano hubs. Boths run smoothly. When I service even cheap hubs they all run smooth by the time I am finished with them, the more expensives one can be made super smooth. I like them.

Any pitting on the hub means a new hub

Not necessarily true – you can knock the cone out of a donor hub and press it into an old one. Shimano say you can’t, but you can. Dunno about other brands of hub.

I think njee20 as summed my feeling up on this debate. Cup and cone bearings roll a lot better on the bike, I have had 20 or more sets of wheels mainly with Hope hubs. XC, Bulb the newer Pro2 and DT swiss hubs too. Some cheaper brands DMR revolvers, On One—-

I have also had maybe the same amount of wheels with cup and cones over the years.

Wheels with cup and cones spin better just try it on the bike. When they are set up correctly with the cones adjusted to perfection and not too much grease in them, they will spin forever a day. This as got to equate to less drag than cartridge bearings! All my cartridge bearing wheels have never spun as free as the cup and cone ones, by quite some way in the case of some of the hubs. Hope hubs seem to have more drag than any other I have used especially the older XC models.

You can’t get away from the fact Shimano wheels have terrible freehub bodys, which should be taken into account with this argument! They don’t last a year with me riding them in mud 17 stone rider. They are expensive and Shimano are always making subtle changes and you will not be able to get them after a few years due to this. You cant service them too unlike Hope or other cartridge bearing hubs.

Shimano Hubs are heavier in the mid range Deore, SLX and XT. The newer lighter XT M775 hubs are lighter than there predecessors but are really fiddly to set up and freehubs on those are even worse than any other Shimano hub ever made!

Hope freehubs last for ages and can be made to run like new with a set of springs and pawls and two cartridge bearings. I know people running them for 12 years and they can still get spares easy enough and cheaply. Try that with Shimano, axles, freehubs cones etc

So there is a bigger picture to look at than is cup and cone better than cartridge bearings.

Basically they are better, but not being able to change the races without buying new hubs to knock them out, crap freehubs and heavy weight, sealing not as good for heavy muddy riding and lack of longevity for spares. That will always make me buy a more draggy Hope hub over the Shimano!

I’m not really adding anything to this discussion but I knackered the cup and cone bearings in my rear Formula hub through lack of maintenance and probably though over enthusiastic cleaning even though a pressure washer wasn’t used. I know this was my fault, even though the hubs were low quality, but when I replaced it I decided to get a cartridge bearing hub so that it wouldn’t be difficult to replace them in case I was stupid enough not to look after C&C bearings again.

I know C&C are better if they are good quality and welmaintaineded but I personally prefer cartridge bearings so they can be easily replaced if/when I don’t look after them.

Doesn’t the argument that all bearings are created equally have something to do with it
And a lot of the time things for bikes are designed to fit not designed to suit the loadings
Cup and cone allows the same conditions to roughly be catered for as angular contact bearings a cartridge has a set clearance shit bearings and shit fits and shit sizing equals shit bearing life