Carbon capture project cancelled

Well I was going to go mountain biking and then I started reading this thread 😆

I don’t know where to start but I’m glad Kit and Stu turned up!

I’d love to see wave power working, but it isn’t. There isn’t a commercial watt produced. You are hard over on it, yet the industry seems to struggle with that commercial step up.

This would still be going if it wasn’t for Babcock going under in the recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agu%C3%A7adoura_Wave_Farm

http://www.wavegen.co.uk/news_press%20release%208%20july%202011%20mutriku%20opening.htm

Tidal – proven and low tech? Why on earth is there still not a single watt produced commercially by tidal if it is so easy and proven? Because it is harder than people think!

http://www.marineturbines.com/

SeaGen – the world’s only commercially operational tidal turbine: feeding 10MWh per tide into the UK grid

And have a read of http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/energy/ to get an idea of what the near future holds.

Yes it is really simple.

In a listed building any new windows must be replicas of the original- ie in my case they must be mullioned wooden sash and case.

The slimline sealed units I have fitted are the only possible double glazed replacement windows that meet this criteria.

Unlike you I have discussed this issue with the regulators and have investigated every possible avenue.

So, in response to your statement of doing everything you can in your fight to insulate you attic, the answer is you are not and you have not produced anything to demonstrate otherwise except for your typical “you don’t understand” crap.

Well don – but you don’t understand as you clearly demonstrate or you wouldn’t keep telling me I can do things that are not allowed. How can you fit triple glazing in a wooden sash and case window of identical profile to the originals?

Have you discussed this with historic Scotland? I have. Have you discussed it with planning dept? I have. Have you investigated all possible avenues to improve the thermal performance of my flat? I have.

Its outrageously arrogant of you to keep telling me there is more I can do when I actually know what is allowed and you do not. You keep telling me to do stuff that is not allowed.

Wahts your experience of listed buildings in the Edinburgh conservation area?

Show me where it says that you can not, I have produced a document that states Edinburgh allows triple glazing. I ask you again to produce tangible evidence to contradict the document I posted.
Common sense determines that the planning regs are guidelines and not set in stone, experience tells me that planning regs can be changed for the greater good.
Please I ask you to either show me documentary evidence prohibiting you from adding triple glazing, or, and of course this depends on previous build, prevents you from using window shutters.
You simply can’t and are wasting your time and effort. The facts are irrefutable and it doesn’t matter how stupid you think I am, the documents do not support your opinion and it is just that, your opinon.

Wahts your experience of listed buildings in the Edinburgh conservation area?

The same as every other conservation area in that logic and common sense win.

At the end of the day, we can’t have 100% renewable without invasive hydropower or tidal projects which are very expensive and very ecologically damaging

Nice dream – your selective belief of politicians is a beautiful thing to behold. It won’t be.

If you are referring specifically to Scotland don’t think that all renewable energy means building new developments, we already have an extensive large scale hydro infrastructure thats been in place for decades and is already part of the reason why Scotland is a net exporter of energy. Salmond’s renewables-based future scottish economy does concern me though, unless he walks the walk and supports UK developers it ain’t gonna happen.

Also don’t associate tidal power with big projects like the Severn barrage – look at the developments actually happening and how they work. Environmental impacts of tidal turbines have been studied extensively and the information is freely available, I’m not sure what your reference for being very ecologically damaging is, but in terms of marine mammals there has been some very interesting recent long term research by SMRU. http://www.smru.co.uk/marine-renewable-energy/strangford-lough.aspx

The electrification of energy is coming

Great news! I will look forward to binning my petrol powered laptop then! 😕

I think there is more to the future of UK energy than Jeremy’s windows 😆

I think there is more to the future of UK energy than Jeremy’s windows

I know, but it’s something to do on a Sunday and it’s quite good fun (and it’s a bit of homework for me).

Just thought I’d add my tuppenceworth as someone who actually works in the carbon capture “industry”.

Given the sheer quantity of energy we currently use (and will potentially use in the future), we’re up the swannie and, unless we do something quickly, we’re are going to be in serious trouble.

Carbon capture isn’t THE solution but is a pretty vital part of it until someone comes up with a way to provide power with significant environmental impacts. It is currently the only way we can produce power from hydrocarbons without further contributing to climate change. Some of the other posters have raised concerns about how it is energy intensive (25% of the rated output of a power station isn’t too far off the mark) and there is a chance it won’t work (leakage back from the saline aquifers or depleted oil and gas fields where it is stored) but, to be honest. Sticking in the ground offshore is better than continuing to pump it in to the atmosphere. From a technical perspective, CO2 storage underground does work. They’ve been doing it in the States for the past 60 years (for other reasons) without leakage back to the atmosphere.

Put simply, we need clean, reliable base load power and, with the best will in the world, wind and tidal energy just isn’t going to be able to provide that (there are some scary stats out there about wind power, have a swatch at how much of their rated output the windfarms in the UK are actually producing).

One parting thought though, why not invest heavily in hydro power? We in Scotland have large tracts of unpopulated land with high rainfall and plenty of elevetion. It something we could do and we don’t skills/materials from other countries to help us (like so may other “renewable” energy schemes out there).

So Don Simon – are you going to tell historic Scotland they are wrong?

You see unlike you I have asked them and I know what is allowed and waht is not. Windows must only be replaced with replicas of the original. this is the fact.

I do find it amusing that someone who does not even live in the UK thinks he knows better than historic Scotland what would be allowed in my building and what would not.

The same as every other conservation area in that logic and common sense win.

so you know nothing then about the situation I am in with my building. alterations to the windows are not allowed. Full stop.

You see unlike you I have asked them and I know what is allowed and waht is not. Windows must only be replaced with replicas of the original. this is the fact.

Show me, until you do it’s useless anecdote, I’ve produced a document which clearly states you that there is no prohibition. You have just told me that Historic Scotland will only allow replicas of the original, yet your double glazed windows are not replicas of the original, are they? Evidently Historic Scotland do allow more modern structures and as I said much, much, much earlier you can not change the look or character, again something you have done by using modern glass and strangely enough, you too.
It looks like Historic Scotland agree with me.

so you know nothing then.

And you call me arrogant??? 😆
I’m still waiting for documentary evidence that prohibits you that you can not use either triple glazing or shutter.
If you you can’t do something as simple as that, wind it in. You of all people understand the importance of documentary evidence, cos I’ve got a mate in the pub who said you’re a fool so it must be true. 😛

Wind turbines are both ugly and noisy.

I’d say ugly is a personal decision, Enercons are beautiful pieces of engineering IMO. I find some windfarms really interesting in the landscape, if you know the one on the way to Thurso, I think it really fits the landscape and really enjoy looking at it. They are noisy, but if they are put somewhere where no one can hear them, its not such an issue. The real future of wind in the UK is offshore, and most sites are significantly far offshore, many of them beyond the 35km horizon visibility.

You don’t give a flying **** about the visual pollution then? Top stuff.

Quite a sentence in many ways, especially in relation to a lickle 330-500kW turbine! Anyway – they can be fun to look at:

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You have just told me that Historic Scotland will only allow replicas of the original, yet your double glazed windows are not replicas of the original, are they?

yes they are – they are the only windows that meet the requirement to be a replica of the original.

Evidently Historic Scotland do allow more modern structures

No they do not. I have just been thru this last year with some lantern lights on the roof. The architect wanted to put modern replacements in – Historic Scotland refused permission – and these are skylights that cannot be seen from the street. Replicas of the original are the only acceptable replacements

as I said much, much, much earlier you can not change the look or character, again something you have done by using modern glass and ……,

No I have not – because they are heritage spec windows that are exact replicas of the original.

Now you’re trying to tell me that single glazing is the same as double glazing, are you? And modern smooth glass is the same as the original galss?
I’m still waiting for the prohition document.

No I have not – because they are heritage spec windows that are exact replicas of the original.

If that is the case and the glass is an exact replica of the original, you have not maximised the insulation properties, therefore you haven’t done everything possible to insulate you Cat B attic, have you?
You can’t have it all ways.

Don – I cannot be bothered arguing with you any more.

Have you discussed this with Historic Scotland? I have and I know what they will allow and what they will not.

Have you discussed this with Historic Scotland? I have and I know what they will allow and what they will not.

But you still can’t produce any concrete evidence that expressly prohibits triple glazing, you haven’t because you can’t. I am surprised at this as you are normally so eager to cut and paste. I know that if I can produce a triple glazed unit that does not change the look of the facade, Historic Scotland will permit it.
Who’s arguing? I’m not. I thought there was the slightest possiblitiy of educating, but I guess not.

Don – to educate you need to talk some sense and have some knowledge. You keep insisting that it is possible to do things that are not allowed.

Now I have lived here for 20 years and have had a lot of discussions with historic Scotland. You have not.

Now who knows best? Historic Scotland or you?

Any replacement window must be a replica of an original. there is no triple glazed unit that will fit in a replica window. there is only one manufacturer in the world that makes a double glazed unit that is compatible.

there are commercial operations running both wave and tidal power.

Links please – I’m very interested.

its you that has the blind spot thinking we can increase energy usage – we cannot – we have to decrease energy usage. You also follow the false premise about nuclear – it cannot be the solution – we don’t have the fuel.

I’m saying that to compensate for the oil burned and the gas burned, we need to increase electricity. You really miss that point. I agree – we need to reduce the energy used. How would you cope with the replacement for gas and oil?

Newer generations of reactors would use what we now call ‘nuclear waste’ as fuel. We have fuel.

Its still small scale – more plant is being installed all the time.

tidal – for example
http://www.seageneration.co.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_Tidal_Power_Station
There are others as well including some in Norway

Wave
http://www.pelamiswave.com/our-projects/agucadoura
http://www.wavegen.co.uk/

Again there are others out there and more going in off the scottish coast.

What will be interesting to see is how many of the scottish ones survive the winter.

Newer generations of reactors would use what we now call ‘nuclear waste’ as fuel. We have fuel.

We need things to be installed now – and using waste as fuel – thats a new one on me.

Or do you mean breeder reactors – a failed tech.

we only have fuel for a few decades espcially with the massive expansion you want. That is a fact

Its no good saying the tech will come along – the pro nuke folk have been promising us that for decades.

I do not miss the point. We can reduce our c02 output by reducing energy consumption. You need to look a the whole country and its total energy usage. Electricity cannot replace much fossil fuel anyway. Its reducing this usage that will reduce c02 emissions.

You need to read your links:

SeaGen – the world’s only commercially operational tidal turbine

Your wave power isn’t producing commercially. Sorry.

Do you really think the UK can reduce consumption enough to cope with no gas and no oil? You are proving your lack of the subject or your own madness.

Any replacement window must be a replica of an original. there is no triple glazed unit that will fit in a replica window. there is only one manufacturer in the world that makes a double glazed unit that is compatible.

Which one of the nine named companies in this Historic Scotland document is the only one that is compatible? This is a serious question
Conservation Glazing http://www.conservationglazing.co.uk
Histoglass http://www.histoglass.co.uk
Pilkington energiKare Legacy http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/
energikareconsumer/energikare]range/legacy.htm
http://www.nsg]spacia.co.jp
Sashworks http://www.sashworks.co.uk
Slenderglaze http://www.sashconsultancy.co.uk
Slimlite http://www.slimliteglass.co.uk
Storm Secondary Glazing http://www.stormwindows.co.uk
Supalite http://www.peternobleglazing.com

TooTall – look at my posts at the top of the page, SeaGen is tidal not wave power.

Some developers have also been looking into the possibility of putting tidal turbines on the supporting structures of wind turbines in the areas with high tidal currents which is quite interesting but adds another level of complexity to things and I wonder if it will ever happen. The next ten years will be very exciting for marine renewables as the big developments are implemented.

What will be interesting to see is how many of the scottish ones survive the winter.

Its the source of much amusement for some of the boat operators in Orkney – I was up a few weeks ago and one of them reckoned Wello would break free first and then take out Pelamis and Oyster on the way to getting minced on the shore 😆 . I’m not sure if Wello will be out by winter though. I think Oyster faces a big challenge in survivability just from where and how it works, being a big flap in relatively shallow water, Pelamis needs to be in deeper water which is a safer place to be. I’d better watch my words though as one of the aquamarine guys is on here!

Shutters on the inside TJ. They can’t stop you doing that. Just as effective at cutting heat loss.

Yes, I own a 20-year-old car, or more precisely madame and I own a car and a van. The company you rent from owns lots of vehicles so one is avaiable for you when you use it TJ.

As you wish to compare greenhouse gasses emitted by our transport use I’ll give you all the information you need. My wife and son use the vehicles more than me but I’ll count all the fuel used as mine to make things simpler. I won’t include kms in other people’s vehicles I car share with as I save them at least as much fuel when they travel with me. You should include all the distance you cover in other people’s vehicles, as you can’t reciprocate.

Over the last 10 years:

0 air kms/year.

Up to 2000km by train per year but only about 1000 on average.

2500km by bus or coach per year for the last three years.

between 400 and 700 litres of motor vehicle fuel per year.

To help you: two people travelling to Australia and back in a 747 consume:

2 x 16983 x 2 x 0.03l = 8151 litres.

Shutters on the inside TJ. They can’t stop you doing that. Just as effective at cutting heat loss.

I think they can, the conservation laws are quite strict and I think you’ll find that internal shutters are not that good an idea due to potential problems of condensation, cracked glass and not as effective as external blinds for reducing solar heat gain either.

EDIT; There are generally no issues surrounding the installation or reinstatement of internal shutters, not a widely known fact.
http://www.changeworks.org.uk/uploads/83096-EnergyHeritage_online1.pdf

I’ll agree with TJ on the Edinburgh planning regs being pretty strict, hence why at least half of the team in the council responsible for them being suspended over potential mis-management and fraud.

However, to go back on topic

Hide it in the ground and pretend it doesn’t exist? need a better answer than that please

…was used as a complaint against nuclear, but surely doing the same with our CO2 is a bit hypocritical?!? Was I the only one to spot the irony in that statement?

Thanks for checking and editing, Don. If anything internal shutters reduce condensation problems (which mainly concern the thermal bridge area around the window once the window is double glazed), cracking glass isn’t a problem and even if not as good as external shutters for keep the dwelling ccol in summer they are better than nothing.

Clearly the internal is better than nothing and I’m sure glass technology has moved on a bit since 1980 too. 😀
http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/pubs/bpn/17_e.pdf

I would have to apply for listed building consent to fit shutters which would be unlikely to be granted, as it is a listed building in a conservation area. Most of my windows could not have them fitted due to the construction of the window frame and surrounds as there would be nowhere for them to go or be fixed to.

You see guys – unlike you I know what my building is, I know what the regulations are and I know what is permissible and possible and I know what can be done and what cannot – And I have done everything I can practically do in most cases.

If you had asked me ” can you do this” or “have you considered that” I could have told you – however you have kept trying to tell me I can do things that are not allowed or possible.

Tootall – pelarmis has been producing electricity on a commercial scale off the Portuguese coast for a few years now.

Ottawa get somewhat colder than Edinburgh too, Don. 😉

Until you can produce a refused planning application for internal shutters we’ll have to rely on general policy statements, TJ. And that says internal shutters are fine and even encouraged as they were original features that have been removed in many cases.

Until you can produce something to prove otherwise I assume that national policy applies and I can walk along your street, TJ.

You are inventing problems that don’t exist. Your roof insulation must be lousy too if you have to heat. What’s above your head, TJ? In my case there are 400mm of wood, rockwool and fibre glass. It was the first insulating I did. If I had to do it now I’d use a combination of recycled polyester, hemp, wood fibre or multi-layer stuff depending on space, the objective being R=7 or higher. You can get R=7 with three layers of 30mm multi-layer these days (100mm total).

If you had asked me ” can you do this” or “have you considered that” I could have told you – however you have kept trying to tell me I can do things that are not allowed or possible.

If you stop looking down on anyone with a differing view to you, or start answering the questions whn they are asked and generally treat people well….
The Changeworks document doesn’t say anything regarding the prohibition of shutters, quite the reverse in fact. Neither does it say no triple glazing and according to you the double glazing isn’t permitted either, clearly History Scotland have demonstrated that there is more than one supplier of slim double glazing, I get the feeling that someone is pulling your chain… I’ve told you how to deal with these people and you’ve done nothing but diss me and that attitude is probably why you have problems when you try taslking with these people. You’re just not interested in listening.

forum-big-hitter-bashing aside, to be fair to TJ, the diagram below of current consumption against a (massively optimistic) theoretical maximum UK ‘green’ energy production bar chart- crossed out indicatively after “public consultation” shows that home heating is only part of the massive amount of carbon produced by our energy consumpttion…..
there’s obviously the argument as to whether nuclear is green or not.

all more clearly set out and debated from all aspects in this book (downloadable in full free) without hot air

apologies if the above book has been discussed and rubbished by more intelligent forumites.
just a soundbite from the above that I found staggering is that for every second an average car is driven, you may as well leave your phone charger on for an entire day 😐

whether carbon caputre or even carbon is the issue, it seems crazy to me, as mentioned earlier that we don’t have CHP or district heating more commonly

Well you see edukator – you do understand the issues – there is nowhere to put the shutters – no space above and below the window – no space at each side. Nor were shutters ever fitted. I don’t know if planing would be granded but I doubt it as it would mean major restructuring of the windows which would not be allowed,

As for insulation above me – thats one of the issues. I have just at great expense had 100mm put in. There is no way of putting anymore in. You see its a 130 yr old building with a flat roof. That is however to to the the latest specs and should improve things.

The worst area is the area on the cheeks of the dormer windows – lath an plaster, air gap, wood, slates. No possible way of putting any insulation in there. I have tried.

Its the structure of the building that is the issue – but of course you know things about my building that are not known to others.

I have put in as much insulation as possible as I have repeatedly told you

Also if you read what I put earlier there is no heat from below most of the time.

He once watched a staged 25-minute TV programme, Don, all your years of hands-on experience and success, and university studies that support your view just don’t stack up in TJ’s world.

Don – If you wopuld just accept that you know nothing about listed buildings and that what youa re telling me is not what historic scotladn have told me.

Its pointless engaging with you as you keep on trying to tell me to do things that are impossible because of you lack of knowledge about my building and your lack of understanding of listed building regs as applied to my building – something I have a lot of experience of having worked with them for 20 years.

What’s the R value of the 100mm you put in, TJ? If did a bit of research it would be R=7. So is it three layers of 30mm 25-layer aluminium foil/polyester/foam (total thickness 90mm) which would keep your place warm or 100mm of rockwool or hemp or fibreglass or wood fibre with R=2 – woefully inadequate..

Edukator – the issue is he does not know or understand the constraints I am working under. he does not ( as you don’t) understand the building nor the regulations and how they are applied. Hence he and you keep coming to erroneous conclusions and state that I must do things that cannot be done.

Have either of you discussed this with Historic Scotland? I have. At length. Looking for ways to further improve the thermal performance of the building. Non of the things you have suggested can be done. None of them.

Maybe you could just move to somewhere more eco-friendly?

apologies if the above book has been discussed and rubbished by more intelligent forumites.

More intelligent? Maybe, but its certainly been rubbished by those who have made an emotional commitment to “green” energy and refuse to countenance any data or argument that maybe its not a practical solution to our future energy needs without us all changing our lives completely by living in inner city bubbles or living next door to where we work and reducing our travelling to the extreme unless its by bike or public transport. Its really not worth arguing with these people. They’ve climbed up the metaphorical loft ladder pulled it up after themselves and are sitting there with their fingers in their ears.

Don – If you wopuld just accept that you know nothing about listed buildings and that what youa re telling me is not what historic scotladn have told me.

Its pointless engaging with you as you keep on trying to tell me to do things that are impossible because of you lack of knowledge about my building and your lack of understanding of listed building regs as applied to my building – something I have a lot of experience of having worked with them for 20 years.
Why should I accept your presumption that I know nothing about listed buildings or the authorities that deal with them? You stepping dangerously close to arrogance again. Youi clearly have nothing constructive left to say and have demonstrated time and time again your ability to discuss an issue without resorting to insults, so I’ll leave you in you ignorance. Good luck.

Have either of you discussed this with Historic Scotland? I have. At length. Looking for ways to further improve the thermal performance of the building. Non of the things you have suggested can be done. None of them.

They take your trousers down because you don’t know how to deal with them, they probably get pissed off with your arrogance and attitude.

Maybe you could just move to somewhere more eco-friendly?

Which leaves behind an “eco-unfriendly building to be inhabited by someone else. Hardly a solution unless the planning rules are relaxed to allow sensible insulating measures.