Car insurer threatening daughter with CCJ

I just had a call from my daughter, very upset.

She was involved in a minor road traffic incident over a year ago, and her insurance company have admitted liability. Luckily there was no visible damage to either car.

Today she received a letter from a solicitor saying they had been instructed by the other insurers to issue a CCJ against her for payment of £7k in the next seven days. Sadly due to us only seeming to receive post twice a week, this was written a week ago.

Her insurance says they are disputing the amount of the claim. She didn’t buy legal cover as she was trying to save money as a new driver.

Solicitors must be on a pub lunch as they aren’t picking up the phone.

Any thoughts on how to proceed, her insurance company say they are looking into it, but she remains very stressed.

Pass to her insurance.  They will deal with it.  Don’t panic about the dates etc. That isn’t a problem. 

A letter from ” a” solicitor?   Who’s solicitor?

Never mind the absence of legal cover. Leave it to the insurers. Courts take a dim view of hasty, threatening action. There are procedures involved in sueing someone.  A Letter before action and a reasonable time frame. IANAL, but there are a few on here who would be able to advise correctly.

Tell her not to worry.

7k for what? Has she been asked to pay before and ignored it? If not, they can’t get a CCJ for non payment.

If her insurers agree there was no damage, they won’t pay up. Refer to them.

Solicitors can’t issue a ccj, only a county court can, and then only after a court hearing etc, so presumably the solicitors are saying they will go to small claims court over this?

As stated above send it on to your daughters insurers and they will shut it down straight away.

I wonder if the other parties insurers have said they can do no more, so the other party has now personally instructed solicitors to try and recover more money, either way, pass on to your insurance Co, that’s what they’re there for, they insure your daughter against claims from 3rd parties (however those claims come in, either from an insurer, a solicitor, or personally) arising from your daughters car/driving.

Sound like  they are just trying to intimidate her into paying without due diligence, I am pretty sure they can’t just kick off with threats of CCJ’s there should be other correspondence with bills and requests for payment etc first.

If she gave her insurance details for the insurance companies to sort it out, then that is what she should reply to the solicitor, if she has been ignoring previous letters that might be a problem.

IANAL.

£7000 is too much for small claims

Presumably its a bogus injury claim that the insurers are refusing to pay.  As above they have to go to court and win with a cash settlement that she refuses to pay prior to a CCJ being issued which is another court date IIRC

Yeah just pass it straight to her insurer, that is what they are for surely?

TJ the limit for small claims is 10k. It wouldn’t make it very far though as presumably the second you turned up with proof of insurance the case would be thrown out as they have agreed to indemnify OPs daughter against claims.

Today she received a letter from a solicitor saying they had been instructed by the other insurers to issue a CCJ against her for payment of £7k in the next seven days. Sadly due to us only seeming to receive post twice a week, this was written a week ago.

Is this the exact wording? If so it’s more about intimidation and frightening her into paying up quickly. There is no way that a solicitor can issue a CCJ, only a court can.

However, if her insurer is refusing to pay the full amount of the claim, then yes, they can seek a county court judgement from the at-fault driver.

But I would expect a lot more correspondence on the total amount of the claim, how much the insurer is offering, and what they are disputing. As it stands, your daughter does not know if the 7K is for vehicle damage, medical etc.

My feeling from the tone of the letter and the amount (following what sounds like a minor knock with no visible damage) would be that they are trying it on, and no court action will be forthcoming, but she needs to be prepared and on the lookout for a letter from the court.

Julians is correct, but don’t underestimate the ability of people to bury their head in the sand or assume the Insurer is competent and will just sort it then looked bemused when the court decides they had plenty of opportunity to solve it.  So I would send something like the following by recorded delivery too.

Dear XXX,

I have today (DD-MM-YYYY) received your letter dated (DD-MM-YYYY) ref: XYXHGXGHX.

My insurers are ABCDEFGH. Your client is aware of this.  I have forwarded your correspondence to my Insurer.  As I am not aware of any award being made against me by the court I will oppose any attempt to raise a CCJ.

I trust you will not issue any further threat of action to me personally, without involving my Insurer.

Yours sincerely,

XXX

along with sending to the insurer (probably with a robustly worded letter)!

It wouldn’t make it very far though as presumably the second you turned up with proof of insurance the case would be thrown out as they have agreed to indemnify OPs daughter against claims.

Nope, not how it would work, it could actually end up in court (but is unlikely I would say, if the two insurance companies have agreed what should be paid already) , but the ops daughters insurers will be there to defend it because if they are not, they are on the hook to pay out whatever the court agrees should be paid.

It is critical to ensure the daughters insurers are aware of this letter though.

I reckon the 3rd party is not happy with what his insurance company has negotiated as a pay out and has now instructed some solicitor to see if they can get more money, doubt it will go much further once the daughters insurers get involved – again!

And yes, do not reply to the letter or enter into any correspondence with the other party or their agents, just get your insurance Co involved again.

So I would send something like the following by recorded delivery too.

No. You must pass on correspondence unanswered to your insurer. This is often a condition of your policy.

Send the correspondence to your insurer registered/recorded. Also ring them.

Make a note of what’s happened.

Airvent ta for the correction –  I forgot its different in England.

instructed by the other insurers to issue a CCJ against

Agree with the other posters. The clue is in the name….County Court Judgement.

Gets issued by a ..

Definitely hand over to the insurer.

Also check the ‘solicitor’ actually is one – because if they are, they’re super shady. And if they aren’t, well, that would be quite naughty.

She didn’t knock over a motorbike and do a runner did she?

I’d have thought a CCJ would only be possible if she’d been asked to pay multiple times over a long period of time and had simply ignored all the requests. I thought it was the end result of the process not the start.

Depends on the exact wording.

But if a solicitor was threatening a CCJ (something, as others already say, it is not able to issue itself – that’s for a County Court to do – the CC in CCJ) then I’d be telling them (a) they need to talk to my insurer, and (b) I’d tell them that I’m immediately putting in a formal complaint to the Law Society about their threatening behaviour. 

I’d have thought a CCJ would only be possible if she’d been asked to pay multiple times over a long period of time and had simply ignored all the requests. I thought it was the end result of the process not the start.

It would also require a court hearing and judgement (the clue is in the name CCJ), not only that but you would have to be found guilty and then refuse to pay…

She would have been sent a court summons from the local county court, not a ‘solicitor’.

It all sounds very ‘scammy’ assuming the daughter has given you the full facts.

As others have said.. you can’t just demand money from someone ‘or else CCJ’.. that’s not how it works. Demanding money is one thing, but they would have to provide evidence as to why they are out of pocket.. has the daughter had sight of repair bills, hire car costs, medical estimates, doctors reports, etc?

Not that she should.. that’s what she pays her insurance company for.

She should absolutley throw this straight back to her insurers… is it even a genuine ‘threat’, or a scam email/text?

Sounds like classic debt collection agency tactics. It’s amazing how many of them parade as solicitors.

Was a “courtesy” car involved by either party out of curiosity?

Yeah, even if the ‘solicitor’ wanted to take them to court, they would have to file a case, and the daughter would be informed by the court about this, and given opportunity to refute or pay before it even arrives at an actual court hearing.

It has scam/ambulance chaser, written all over it.

“**** off, any further questions?” Toss it in the bin and get on with her life.

Pass it on to the insurers. No other action needed other than ‘put it behind you’.

I would be unsurprised if it was a scam. But that’s for the insurers to deal with.

£7000 is too much for small claims

Sheriff court has jurisdiction for claims up to £100k with a limit of £5k for use of the simple procedure. It’s a good system and hopefully will be implemented in E&W at some point.

This is standard in a legal case (which is what a third party insurance claim is) when it hasn’t been resolved by the insurers for whatever reason. You need to issue proceedings to take it to court, this sounds like a really badly worded way to do it, obviously to upset the other party (OPs daughter).

Contact her insurers, it’s what she’s paying them to do.

Back in the 90s, the solicitor who spearheaded the US style litigation culture here in the UK was an absolute bastard for doing this sort of thing.

Thank you, everyone

Your input has stopped her worrying. Her insurers have confirmed they are disputing the settlement amount (due to lack of medical evidence) and have assured her they are dealing.

All the advice from here was very reassuring for her and, therefore, for me.

Thank you

Her insurers have confirmed they are disputing the settlement amount (due to lack of medical evidence) and have assured her they are dealing.

that was my bet – a bogus injury claim.  What do I win?

Just OOI, would it matter in this situation if OP’s daughter had legal cover or not?

I can’t remember why, but I remember being convinced a year or so ago that legal cover is not worth ticking

Just OOI, would it matter in this situation if OP’s daughter had legal cover or not?

No. The standard car policy pays for what are referred to as defence costs. That means when a third party alleges something against you, the policy pays out to defend and/or settle it. Which in turn means paying out for damages, plus your own legal costs and the (reasonable) costs for the person making the claim.

There are other legal costs that can be covered in the policy, such as prosecution defence costs, but this can vary.

I can’t remember why, but I remember being convinced a year or so ago that legal cover is not worth ticking

The legal cover you pay extra for on a car policy is called ULR (Uninsured Loss Recovery). There are other bits of a ULR cover that can be useful as well – such as advice helplines on a range of areas.
The main bit of ULR is to do exactly what it says, recover uninsured losses. Things like an excess, injury, or other costs like loss of earnings.
This happens when the incident is non-fault.
You can just use an ambulance chaser to get this money back for you. But there are potentially fees and risks if they don’t ‘win’. A ULR cover is an insurance policy you buy up front and it will do the work for you for less risk.

UPDATE and wisdom needed!

Ten months after the original post, my daughter today received a letter from the County Court requiring payment to the solicitors. The claim is still in dispute between the two insurers, and last month, my daughter’s insurance company said they were still dealing with it.

She will be on the phone with her insurers tomorrow morning but I wanted to know if anyone else had a Civil National Business Centre Claim sent to them when insurance companies have not resolved an incident from over two years ago.

Ten months after the original post, my daughter today received a letter from the County Court requiring payment to the solicitors.

That doesn’t sound correct at all…if a court fines you, you have to pay the court and there are very clear instructions on how to do that, they would not instruct you to pay ‘a solicitor’.

today received a letter from the County Court

Are you sure its an official court letter, and not a scam/debt collection agency?

The easiest thing to do would be to call the court clerk and ask them directly.

This hasn’t been to court – in fact, there has been no communication since the threatening letter 10 months ago. The form is an N1SDT, the same as the ones on the .gov site.

The County Court Business Centre (CCBC) is a specialised part of the county court system in England and Wales designed to handle bulk processing for particular types of claims.

This hasn’t been to court

It either has, or it hasn’t.

my daughter today received a letter from the County Court requiring payment to the solicitors.

So what is it? I’m suspecting a scam, still…a court would never ask you to pay solicitors.. they would simply order you to pay the fine (if guilty), plus penalties etc.

Only then, if you fail to pay the fine yould you get a CCJ against you.

The County Court Business Centre (CCBC) is a specialised part of the county court system in England and Wales designed to handle bulk processing for particular types of claims.

It is part of the county court system – you either pay up or file a counter claim.

It either has, or it hasn’t.

Seems it doesn’t need to anymore

Hmmm.. I’d love to see a picture of the letter (with personal info blanked out)

A court order would have to be paid directly to the court as per the instuctions… the fact you mentioned ‘the court’ has apparently instucted you to pay ‘a solicitor’ has red flags written all over it.

More red flags than a russian military parade.

I can’t offer any real advice but I was curious and so started googling.  According to this wiki article all your daughter needs to do is contest it and then it’ll go to a real court?  My suspicion is that the claimant hasn’t had any luck within the system and so has decided to try this route instead…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Court_Business_Centre

<h3 id=”Defendant_responses” style=”color: inherit; margin: 0px 0px 0.25em; padding: 0px; display: inline; word-break: break-word; font-size: inherit; border: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: 1.6; font-family: inherit; font-optical-sizing: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-kerning: inherit; font-feature-settings: inherit; font-variation-settings: inherit;”>Defendant responses</h3>
[edit]

Claim forms issued by the CCBC are served upon the defendant(s) in the same manner as other courts. However, the response pack also includes a password to allow the defendant to file their response via a website.

Where a defendant contests some, or all, of the claim, the claimant is required (if they wish to continue) to request the case be transferred out of the CCBC.

Sounds like a very shady scam attempt at extracting money from your daughter. As above County Court won’t demand you pay a solicitor. Who is this solicitor anyway – yours? Why on earth would you have to pay someone else’s? Does not add up at all. Pay nothing.

Thanks Matty – that would be most of the form- there is a template online N1SDT or moneyclaim.gov.uk

Its the small claims court via the web! You can defend yourself, but it all happens via online forms.

I’m looking into it. For them to enforce it, it would need to be transferred to a local county court. This system is more for non-payment of invoices and is not suited for disputed claims, which would still need to go to court if not resolved.

UK debt Expert say

Established to provide a more streamlined process for dealing with certain types of county court cases, the CCBC enables solicitors and claimants to make bulk claims, typically for debts like unpaid invoices or loans. Its operations hinge on the use of technology to manage cases efficiently, which in turn helps to reduce the time and costs associated with traditional court proceedings.

As you explore the services offered by the CCBC, you’ll find that this facility is particularly suited for businesses and organisations that deal with high volumes of claims.

It operates under the same legal framework as the traditional county courts, but its emphasis on electronic processing allows it to serve claimants with greater speed.

Importantly, while the centre facilitates the initial stages of the claim process electronically, any subsequent hearings related to these claims are transferred to the defendant’s local county court, should they be contested.

Op, as Matty has said, post a pic of t the letter with redacted details but keep any logos on the letter etc intact.