CairnGorm Mountain Railway borked

Just noticed FB page has sprung back to life with status updates on snow…

https://www.facebook.com/cairngormmountainscotlandltd

Where has all the money gone? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47638092

https://www.strathspey-herald.co.uk/news/mountain-of-debt-was-left-by-bust-firm-174363/

out of interest (I figure folks who know would be on here) – can the railway be used to shuttle trails at all? 400m of height gain is a healthy amount

No IIRC. There is a huge dispute about the use of the mountain at all for skiing and bikes because its a very rare habitat. Part of the deal that allowed the funicular to be built was that it wouldn’t be used for walker access to the plateau and not for bikes.

I think MTBing might have been a part of the plan to revitalise it / create more profits

There are (maybe were) guided rides which used the train for uplift. Pretty tame, but sketchy gravel track type terrain IIRC.
The whole access from the top using the train needs rethinking IMHO.

out of interest (I figure folks who know would be on here) – can the railway be used to shuttle trails at all? 400m of height gain is a healthy amount

It’s a possibility. For instance, some decent (but short) trails could be made available from mid-station down, inside the existing Coire Cas ski area. Of particular interest (and being considered) would be to continue the trails down to Glenmore, using a vehicle for uplift back to the base car park. Trails here would descend through the forest so would be a lot less visible and routing could be more imaginative. However the forest belongs to FCS, not HIE so there are land ownership and management issues in achieving this. The Community Trust have it on the radar though.

The consultants engaged by HIE last Autumn came up with a plan for MTB trails from the top station down to the base station. These would use the funicular for uplift. However, it has been pointed out that using “Windy Ridge” as the descent route maybe wasn’t the cleverest option.

Scotroute – am I right in that the original deal said no bikes to be taken on the funicular?

I should also say that HIE have not yet published the engineers report on the funicular faults. Although they have committed to having the funicular back up and running, no one believes they have infinitely deep pockets. It’s perfectly possible that it may have to be removed. Newer chairlift designs can operate in higher wind speeds than the old ones at Cairngorm could and are part of the “master plan” either way.

Of course there are also those that would like to see the whole facility closed down and all infrastructure (including the roads and car parks) removed. None of them stood for, or attend meetings of, the Community Trust so their opinions carry a lot less weight locally.

Scotroute – am I right in that the original deal said no bikes to be taken on the funicular?

Who cares? As already pointed out, there have already been led rides down the mountain using the funicular for uplift.

None of them stood for, or attend meetings of, the Community Trust so their opinions carry a lot less weight locally.

Interesting. It does rather make the antis out to be nimbys.

Its a tricky balance IMO. No doubt cairngorm is a very special place habitat wise and no doubt in my mind that the ski station would not be built there now. However it is there, it brings money and employment.

NISEBYs really.

This, from the Community Trust website, pretty much sums up my thoughts on that matter.

At just 5.98 Km2 the Cairngorm Ski Area occupies just 0.13% of the Cairngorms National Park Area. Scottish Natural Heritage classify 1572 Km2 of land in the National Park as Wild Land and 15197Km2 of Scotland as a whole. It’s not realistic to argue that the northern corries are making a huge impact on the availability of wild land in Scotland, and their economic and social impact certainly justify the development of 6km of already developed land. Whilst the Northern Corries are beautiful, their popularity largely stems from ease of access, the northern corries present a unique opportunity for visitors and the less able, to experience the mountain environment.

The finances behind all this are murky at best not to mention the somewhat dubious tendering process. You have turkeys voting for christmas here as the proj mgr at the time is now the HIE chief exec….What is criminal is that they were assessed as a going concern and knew they would leave local businesses out of pocket.

HIE have a lot of questions to answer for sure. Their budget has been cut by £10 million for next year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-49176772

Repairing the Cairngorms’ funicular will cost less than removing and scrapping it, its owner Highlands and Islands Enterprise (HIE) has said.

Looks like at least some progress is being made. Any hope of it running this winter are completely gone though.

There was never any danger of it running this year of for the 2019/20 winter. They are not talking with any certainty about 2020/21.

My money is on it being back in service in October 2022 ready for winter 2022/23. Anyone care to join the sweepstake?

Also just to say that comparing the cost of removing and scrapping with repairing is pretty pointless. It will have to be removed and scrapped at some point when its useful life is over, so that cost can’t be avoided in the long run. That has nothing to do with whether it’s worth spending £xxx million pounds repairing it and then running it at a loss for the next 20 years.

Yes, but the cost can be offset against the cost for the removal of significant amounts of egg from many HIE faces.

HIE said its intention would be to repair the railway at an estimated cost of £10m.

Oh dear, personally I’d go for the removal option!

For an extra £3m plus the cost of the replacement?

We all know how these things go, it’ll end up costing £15m to fix it.
It’ll be good for another 5 years then it’ll get condemned!

Just get the Edinburgh Tram peeps on it, or the Hinkley Point C brigade. Sorted.

So if they remove it the daily cost for 17 years is around £650 of capital…

FFS.

We all know how these things go, it’ll end up costing £15m to fix it.
It’ll be good for another 5 years then it’ll get condemned!

I fear that this is bang on the money.

I have heard of plans for a gondola up from the hayfield @ Glen More. Not sure how realistic it is, but that would be ambitious.

There is no logical in trying to make a  cost case repair vs removal. Regardless of how much it costs, it will have to be removal at some point eventually anyway. So, if there is is a choice between gondola, chairlift or repair then the £13m should be ignored.

Needs to be removed and a proper operations executive put in to manage the revitalisation of the mountain. All the pie in sky plans for mtb etc should be between the day lodge and glenmore not further up the hill. A proper gondola would be an epic add with a couple of detachable chairlifts. But that’s a lot of investment. Whole thing has been killed by borderline fraudulent business behaviour.

It is the latest installment in a 20 year saga of how not to do things. The multiple and multilayered failures are incredible, and the fact that no one has been held to account is unbelievable. Another layer of outrage is the same muppets keep resurfacing to allow their wisdom and flawed decision making to wreak more havoc.

HIE aren’t fit for purpose – neither is the train itself. Even if it’s repaired you’ve still got the problem of keeping the access road clear… and in fact the track itself. And just to **** things up completely they ripped the Ciste chairlift out.

As others have said a kluster**** of truly epic proportions.

Get all infrastructure of the mountains. Same goes for the Nevis range chairlift!

Nah. I’d rather they laid a proper tarmac/concrete road up to the Ptarmigan. It would likely cause less erosion than the current gravel track and would make servicing the restaurant etc a lot easier. Part of the reason the funicular was so expensive to build (and will be to remove) was the constraint on vehicular construction traffic and the need to photograph, catalogue, remove and then replace every boulder, stone and bit of plant life.

Coire Cas is a very small part of the Cairngorm Mountains and an even smaller part of the CNPA. Most of the rest of the Park has been reduced to a wet upland desert through over-stocking of deer and its use as a grouse farm. Environmentalists simply see the ski area as an easy target while ignoring the big picture. There’s also an elitist part of the hillwalking / mountaineering lobby who think that the high hills should be reserved for them and their ilk who will undertake a long expedition to explore them rather than accept the fact that day-trippers can drive up and walk into the Northern Corries or onto the plateau.

Well said Scotroutes.

>Coire Cas is a very small part of the Cairngorm Mountains and an even smaller part of the CNPA. Most of the rest of the Park has been reduced to a wet upland desert through over-stocking of deer and its use as a grouse farm.<

This.

Not to mention the thousands of miles of LRT bashed across the CNP and most of the Highlands with not a jot of planning permission. Rode the Fungle and Firnmouth for the first time in years recently and was staggered by the sheer scale of new road building up there now. Controlled heather grazing and associated road networks as far as the eye could see.

I’m with Scotroutes on this. The ski area is a very small area on the edge of the Cairngorms. I’m all for avoiding development in the vast majority of the Cairngorms, but making use of this area for all makes a lot of sense. I think it will have minimal impact and I really don’t see it as being the thin edge of the wedge. Deer and grouse, and the bulldozed access tracks they seem to bring, are a far bigger issue than the ski area.

It’s alright, they’re going to get a piste basher with a cab to take folk up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50040802

You couldn’t make it up.
(and neither will anyone be able to this winter!)

Really?
Ffs

And pisten bullys never, ever dig through and destroy the underlying soil. Oh no. Suppose they’ll operate it like the glacier bus at Saas fee, which was so pleasant. As Matt says. FFS.

How about minimalist lightweight funicular “carriages” – open air, obvs., good insurance and a squad of lawyers? HIE are pretty Teflon anyway.

Seriously though, I would WALK to the base of the Cas/M1 if it was running. My kids would struggle though. We have been season pass holders for the last few years at CG, but this year will probably do Nevis or Glencoe.

That’s a **** expensive taxi.

https://www.pistenbully.com/usa/en/vehicles/attachments/personnel-cabins/accessactn/show/acategory/superstructures/accessory/cab-20-pers-1600-kg.html