British IS female wants to come back to UK…

When there she realised it was a mistake and wants to come home.

Pretty sure she said that she had “no regrets”

Would you rather help her or let her die?

except that she hasn’t shown any regret for being out there, saying it was like normal life and that seeing severed heads in the bin didn’t phaze her – so clearly your scenario about Nazi Germany holds no parallels to this.

She’s made her choice, let her stay out there in the refugee camps so she can suffer along with all the other people displaced because of the people she went out there to join with.

One more thought. A lot of people are making a big thing of her lack of repentance. I doubt a camp full of surrendered Isis hard liners is somewhere where she can speak freely, so we need to be a bit careful.

If you heard the interview with the journalist who found her, they spoke privately and out of sight for about an hour, in which time she removed her niqab and faced him directly. I think she didn’t show repentance because she is by and large unrepentant.

There’s enough religious nut jobs (from all faiths) in society as it is. We don’t need another, who has openly supported what ISIS has stood for, doesn’t regret her actions, and has rejected all the values of our society . She only wants to come back to take advantage of our medical and social services. Why should we pay to protect/house/feed her (even imprison her) and her child. She hasn’t denounced ISIS at all. We don’t need people like this, shes made her bed. As have the rest who would rather live under a strict sharia law and support these nut jobs. International law doesn’t come into it (it dose but it shouldn’t). It up to our government to decide what is best for our country, and act accordingly.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

She made her bed when she left.

Normally, teenagers are applauded when they get round to making their beds. Why not this one?

Sounded unapologetic on the interview broadcast of R4 this morning
Sounded concerned for her 3rd child
No consular support in Syria, so would need to make her way to somewhere with a consul. Therefore, until she does, she stays in the camp.

If she manages it and comes “home” then investigate, and if necessary arrest and prosecute. It’s the right way to do it, but doesn’t pander to the growing gammon portion of society.

This shouldn’t even be up for discussion  (except on a forum) within government.

I know all that. Who is arguing that she should be actively repatriated?

The poster that I was responding to.

She hasn’t realised she made a mistake though, she has said she didn’t regret going out there. There’s no remorse from her what so ever. She’s also quoted saying that the first severed head was from an seized fighter who was an ‘enemy of Islam’…that quote basically confirms that she is still radicalised.

She was a daft wee girl when she went out but it seems now that she’s now a daft adult with the same ideals. If she came back saying she’d made a mistake and regretted everything then aye, let her back in, de-radicalise etc but she hasn’t.

Some of the views on this thread are vile.

nowhere near as vile as the people she went out there to join and happily lived a ‘normal’ life amongst.

Caring for the actual refugees caused by ISIS should be a priority far higher than bringing her home.

Give her some money and tell her to try to get home by using the people traffickers her and her ilk have helped make rich. If she makes it, then put her on trial anyway…

Caring for the actual refugees caused by ISIS should be a priority far higher than bringing her home.

Problem is that most of the ‘let her rot’ camp don’t care about them either

Imagine if you may a young muslim girl who was disillusioned with the uk and reads her life would be better so off she goes. When there she realised it was a mistake and wants to come home.
Would you rather help her or let her die?

Dont think she has realised it was a mistake though…

Ah well it gives the media something to cover while there’s nothing else happening.

Nah nothing else happening

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/8426640/alesha-macphail-latest-raped-before-killed/amp/

It’s not about what we want to happen to her, it’s about what we should do with her.. where is your Human Compassion? ..let her come back but she will have to account for her actions.
She should be subject to the full force of a Jeremy Kyle shame interview on ITV, and made to cry. but she will not get any rehab help from Graham!

ransos

Subscriber
It seems to me that quite a few here are in favour of banishment and summary justice. Now, who does that remind me of…

Yip, it’s insane and the predictable course of the thread. kinda why I was trying to steer it on to a legal route at the beginning.

There’s fairly obviously ways to handle it all. Letting the mob decide her fate isn’t really one of them.

If you heard the interview with the journalist who found her, they spoke privately and out of sight for about an hour, in which time she removed her niqab and faced him directly.

Thanks, that’s conclusive.

I think the UK Government have got it right on this one –

“If she can make it to a local consul we will deal with her, but we’re not risking anyone to go and rescue her”

Couldn’t agree more… she made herself an enemy of the state and deserves nothing more than what has been offered.

Imagine the stink the ‘let her rot’ brigade would kick up if foreign born UK based sympathisers for IS could not be sent back to their country of birth because these countries refused to have them.

Those foreigners that are unsavoury here should be kicked to somewhere else. Our own unsavoury citizens should remain somewhere else. You cant have it both ways.

she made herself an enemy of the state

I’d think it’s for a court of law to decide that.

As i said, I’m still struggling to see how “getting pumped” is a criminal offence. Is that the legal definition for “aiding and abetting” as was put forward earlier. I doubt it. If that’s the case, we better start locking up the partners of everyone currently in jail.

I’d prefer a court decided mind you and look into it further and brings forward more realistic charges if necessary.

tpbiker

If you can give an example of anyone on this thread ‘almost’ going as far as to run off to a facist state in support of a group of violent extremists then fair enough..i must have missed that post.

You did miss that post although I am not surprised.

It was suggested that an SAS hit squad could perhaps put her out of her misery.

Condoning the execution by elite troops of someone living in the confines of a refugee camp with no recourse to legal representation or a fair trial seems fairly extreme to me.

If you heard the interview with the journalist who found her, they spoke privately and out of sight for about an hour, in which time she removed her niqab and faced him directly.

Thanks, that’s conclusive.

I’ll take a first hand account (albeit over the radio, i admit I couldn’t see his face to see if he was smirking) over your imagined account of whether she could speak freely or not. Thanks.

Rule of (UK) law, or not? Seems straightforward.

If you heard the interview with the journalist who found her, they spoke privately and out of sight for about an hour, in which time she removed her niqab and faced him directly.

Thanks, that’s conclusive.

I’ll take a first hand account (albeit over the radio, i admit I couldn’t see his face to see if he was smirking) over your imagined account of whether she could speak freely or not. Thanks.

It was an interview out of the way not a chance encounter in public so nobody to overhear and she had time to consider what she was saying. If she took her niqab off in front of a man, and identified herself then I think it’s safe to say she had no fear whatsoever of retribution. …and if she had no fear whatsoever of retribution then she’s probably telling the truth, and she genuinely has no regrets. I really can’t see it any other way.

….and I’m not imagining anything, it’s available to listen to.

She was groomed

I haven’t read the thread, so I assume this point has probably already been made but:

If we were talking about a 15 year old white boy groomed for abuse by Jimmy Savill, would you have the same views

If we were talking about a 15 year old white girl groomed for sex by Asian grooming gangs would you still have the same views

She is a victim the same as these groups right? We should put our arms around (metaphorically) her and help right?

It blows my mind how people can just ignore the things that happened over in Syria and then scold others for having no compassion. Nobody cares about what happened to the yazidis here, same as when they were actually being slaughtered. British government did **** all. Let it slide.

Auld Shamimas havin it rough out there is she? Not that rough. Not even close.

Who’s showing sympathy for her?

I’d think it’s for a court of law to decide that.

Would that be with a jury of 12 peers ?

British government did **** all. Let it slide.

hmm, well you could easily argue their incompetence was a large part of what lead to it, on a few levels. So did f all is a bit of a stretch

The rule of law should apply – if she has a right of return then she should be allowed to exercise it if she follows the proper process. If she’s committed a crime she should be prosecuted.

She was groomed She is a victim the same as these groups right? We should put our arms around (metaphorically) her and help right?

I don’t know where joining ISIS is on your moral scale, but if a 15yo was groomed to commit a serious crime in the UK, I’m pretty sure the fact that grooming had taken place that wouldn’t be a defence. (IIRC Necessity is a defence, but “Someone convinced me to do it.” isn’t.) Is joining ISIS as bad as murder? I think it is. Any male children she bred were literally born specifically to kill.

Is she a victim? No. The western Volunteers are the least brainwashed people in ISIS. Most of the local recruits will have come from a pretty fundamentalist background in a developing country. I suspect many are literally kidnapped. (ISIS turn up at your town and take the people they want, including making children fight.) In contrast the Western volunteers have the advantage of the Internet and easy access to a completely free media to come to their own conclusion.

But yes, if she was a victim then people would have 100pc sympathy. In fact she went to significant lengths to join the perpetrators. Which is why people have less sympathy.

…Yes the UK has a legal responsibility and a moral responsibility to accept her back (we can’t legally make her stateless and it’s not fair to leave others to deal with our trash) and therefore we should. But sympathy for someone who went to great lengths to join a bunch of Fascists famed for throwing gay people of buildings and other horrific deeds? I’ve got none.

mickmcd

Would that be with a jury of 12 peers ?

what point you trying to make, spit it out?

It blows my mind how people can just ignore the things that happened over in Syria and then scold others for having no compassion

What should blow your mind is that there are millions possibly billions around the globe in a variety of terrible situations worthy of compassion. We cant comment on all of these situations.

If you are particularly concerned for the plight of the Yazidis then start a thread on it.

If you’re out in Syria/Afghanistan etc and wanting to come back you still have to be careful about what you say, the few remaining ISIS nutters would make her a target for saying anything bad about islam, but when she is back on UK soil

Her reasoning and her age makes me think that de-radicalisation can work in this instance – we do have instances where it has worked e.g. Quilliam

I say bring her back – it gives us an opportunity for publically taking the moral high ground as a propaganda tool, and maybe a 19yo deserves a chance

what point you trying to make, spit it out?

Do you think she would get a fair trial….

I say bring her back – it gives us an opportunity for publically taking the moral high ground as a propaganda tool, and maybe a 19yo deserves a chance

Some might even say leave her there just to make an example of what happens.

Well, she was fifteen when she absconded apparently having been groomed by an unidentified woman. In four years, she’s lost two children(!) which can’t exactly have been an experience that one takes in one’s stride. She’s nine months pregnant and in a refugee camp in Syria. Her two fellow abscondees are apparently dead, one killed in a Russian air attack on her residence. It’s clear that the three conspired to run away (one having lost her mother to cancer and having seen her father quickly remarry). As I understand it, revoking her citizenship isn’t an option according to the FO so if she can get herself back to the UK then it becomes a matter for social services and the security services to assess.

There’s the suggestion that she’s unrepentant, equally she’s seen a severed head in a bin and has lost two of her children.

The one constant is that suddenly everyone on social media is an expert in the legal, social and moral ramifications, which have ranged from calls to burn her and her unborn child at the stake, to the suggestion that she will be housed in luxury accommodation at the taxpayer’s expense which she wouldn’t otherwise be entitled to if she were caucasian and female.

I’m neither qualified nor knowledgeable enough to make a judgement about her, but I am depressed at the level of outrage thrown at a nineteen year old young woman.

Djglover you are spot on. These young people are weaponised by others. They are victims alongside their intended targets. Its an uncomfortable truth.

calls to burn her and her unborn child at the stake

Jesus **** h Christ really? An unborn baby? Even if you do sit on the morally, well isis didn’t care about other pregnant women side of the fence then **** me we are doomed

mickmcd

Do you think she would get a fair trial….

I do, yes. Someone needs to present some proper charges and evidence first though.

@outofbreath

my apologies, I thought you were being sarcastic.

Whoops.

Well, the lesson that I learned is that there are some complete ****s on social media. It’s easy to be a foaming reactionary when your twitter username is brexitmike4219, who clearly doesn’t understand the irony of being radicalised online by fake accounts designed to sow division and discord.

I suspect that there will be enough work for the Home Office’s de-radicalisation teams to keep them busy for a while, even if it’s down to middle aged angry blokes with a profile pic depicting some sort of football related meme.

Would that be with a jury of 12 peers ?

If she was to be charged with any offence committed whilst she was under 18 does this mean she would be tried under the juvenile court system and not have a trial by jury?