Brexit benefits – lets start a list

So unionists in NI and the brexit “brake”  which way will Starmer go?  Piss off the NI unionists or the EU?  I bet he appeases the NI unionists

To all the cheerleaders for PR, I should point out that here in Spain at least it certainly has led to the more extremist parties getting significant political power

But it’s giving people what they think they want.

Sure, plenty of people are effing idiots and there is a healthy dose of “be careful what you wish for” going on here, but it’s difficult to argue that it’s unfair. If 20% of your population are racist nutters, it makes sense to have 20% of your parliament to be made up of racist nutters in order to provide them with representation.

The alternative is to educate the populace at large, and to allocate people into positions of control who are qualified to do the job and have the nation’s best interests at heart. Pass the needle and thread, my sides have just split.

Did someone say that? I missed it, sorry.

Yeah, it’s a bit further up the thread.

But it’s giving people what they think they want.

Yeah, sure. It’s the “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others”, basically.

I bet he appeases the NI unionists

Given that he’s the PM of Britain, who are not a member of the EU, he’s unlikely not to support British people in this regard. This is a pretty basic part of his job description really.

Yeah, it’s a bit further up the thread.

Can you provide the exact quote please?

nickc – but in supporting the unionists he would actually make things worse for the people?  Its also a good test of whether he genuinely wants a rapprochement with the EU or as I believe its fine words to gaslight labour supporters while his actions are to support brexit and piss off the EU.

Rapprochement with the EU would be overwhelmingly to the benefit of the UK population particularly the NI population

Can you provide the exact quote please?

Sure, although you could have just looked a page back ?‍

No its not and FPTP has given us numerous hard right tory governments on a minority of the vote

I’ll let you see what he’s replying to. (And I’m not denying the second part of the comment, just the idea that PR is a sure-fire way to avoid extremist governments. It’s not.)

My comment and the context was that someone claimed PR always lets extremists in and the answer I gave was no its not because it isn’t.  Most of these so called extremist parties are no more so that the tories and a lot less than reform.  Not every PR government has extremists in power.  However our FPTP does let extremists in.  It can be either way but PR does not give rise automatically to extremists getting in.  Where are the extrmists in Scotland?

We ended up with a hard right tory party in power on a minority of the vote.  could not happen under PR

We ended up with a hard right tory party in power on a minority of the vote.  could not happen under PR

Yeah, that’s where you’re wrong. PR doesn’t guarantee that extremist parties don’t get into government. What happens is that the Tories win 33% of the vote, Labour 29%, Reform 10%, and the Liberals 8%. (Other parties get the rest.) After negotiations, we end with a government where the Tories hold the PM, Exchequer, and a whole load of other ministries. But to form that government they have to offer Reform the Home Office.  So technically they’re not the government, but in practice they form a large part of it. And that drags the government to the right.

Yeah, that’s where you’re wrong. PR doesn’t guarantee that extremist parties don’t get into government.

You could just read what all of what TJ wrote eg “It can be either way but PR does not give rise automatically to extremists getting in.  “.

So the only person making claims that PR can never lead to extremist parties in government is you. Of course it can as can any political system short of a dictatorship/absolute monarchy which doesnt allow for political parties.

Of course these options have a few downsides.

PR doesn’t guarantee that extremist parties don’t get into government

I never said it did.  What I said was that PR does not necessarily lead to extremists in government and we have had an extreme right wing government with FPTP

I never said it did

Apologies, I read what you said and interpreted it that way. Apparently we’re furiously agreeing 🙂

Mogrim – where are the extremists in Scotland?  PR government remember?

Most PR governments end up in social democratic coalitions.  Long term stable ones

No worries Mogrim.  It happens 🙂

Most PR governments end up in social democratic coalitions

That’s a lovely idea, but unfortunatley in practice they can easily tilt to the left or right.

Its where almost all european governments have been since the wart.

Can’t they get a cream for that?

Garmin Varia Light Flash Pattern Ban Extended in EU

Might have actually found one.

Almost all bike lights including these are actually illegal in the UK as well.  You must have a steady rear light that meets the relevant standards.  almost impossible to find

You guys do realise we have still not completed the process of leaving.  We have not implemented the import checks needed under the various agreements made – a very damaging thing.  Until we have done this the EU will not discuss any changes to the withdrawal agreement.  So for all Starmers warm words nothing will change until its got a lot worse by introducing these checks

A 2005 amendment to The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations made using flashing lights on a bicycle in the UK legal.

A rear lamp showing a red light, positioned between 35cm and 150cm from the ground, facing rearwards. If capable of emitting only a flashing light, it must emit at least four candela. If capable of emitting a steady light, it must comply to BS3648, or BS6102/3 standards

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/bike-light-laws-in-the-uk-what-you-need-to-know

Not quite as I thought.  Thanks for the clarification

Almost all bike lights including these are actually illegal in the UK as well. You must have a steady rear light that meets the relevant standards. almost impossible to find

This isn’t quite right.

The requirement for a steady light was dropped years ago, flashing lights fixed to the bike front and back as the only lighting are perfectly legal. However, if your flashing light is capable of also producing a steady light then this must comply with BS-something which almost all don’t as you say.

Perversely, most modern lights fail the BS standard because they’re too good, legislation has not kept up with technology (I know, I was shocked too). If you had an Ever Ready lamp from the 1970s that took one of those batteries the size of a Nori brick you’d probably be golden. 🙂

Damn it, you lot type faster than I do!

France has decided to follow Germany , it’s not currently an EU dictate.

I did wonder why I got a really good price on my varia rear camera from Germany thou:-)

I did notice the numbers were different but I’d not took much notice.

Rapprochement with the EU would be overwhelmingly to the benefit of the UK population particularly the NI population

Sure but we voted to leave. So fantasy politics aside, perhaps siding with what British people said they want will do more for his terrible poll rating?

the british people have said they want back in!  NI folk are strongly in favour of the windsor agreement and being in the EU.  Its the unionists acting against the interests of the people here.  Being honest about brexit might well gain him more .

Still we haven’t yet seen his response to this bit of deliberate wrecking action from the unionists

the british people have said they want back in!

Was there another referendum that I missed? None of my Brexit UK mates have changed their minds and would vote leave tomorrow. They’re suspicious of Starmer’s moves towards the EU.

Polling consistently shows a large majori8ty for return and even brexiteer voters have accepted SM and CU as necessary.

the point of this tho is this is purely a wrecking action from the NI unionists.  Its a labeling requirement that NI need to adhere to because of the windsor agreement.  The only products that will not be labeled in the way the EU want are those which are only sold in the UK.  Any company that sells into the EU will need to adhere to that labeling requirement.  so its a very small number of products that will need this extra labeling to sell in NI but not in the remainder of the UK

Its purely wrecking action from the unionists

the british people have said they want back in!

Some of them have.

There is still a narrative that “reversing” – ie, doing something different – would be undemocratic. People who want back in have been convinced that to do so would be a betrayal of what passes for a political system here. Credit where it’s due, Leave.EU and their supporting cast really did a bang-up job of pulling the wool over the nob of the UK public.

I’ve found a Brexit benefit!!!!!!

Pre covid and Brexit we regularly took Bert to France on his blue passport. The only expiry was his rabies shot that needed doing every 3 years but the passport was endless unless it was filled up with ‘stamps’

Nowadays he needs an animal health certificate to travel – in this case its12 pages in Dutch (first port of entry) and the total bill with a rabies injection was £200+. It only lasts 4 months.

I know cheaper alternatives can be issued at local exit ports but I don’t want the hassle. So the benefit is my vet gets extra work than they had previously.

cougar – and Starmer is complicit in that with his constant lies and gaslighting.  ” no economic case for return” *rolleyes*

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

We have a government that wants closer ties with the rest of Europe. At this point there is no point asking for more than is possible. So keep working on convergence (yeah, like readable warnings on chemicals) and tear up plans for divergence (the USA isn’t going to reward us for doing so anyway). Politicians need to sell that convergence without having to spend all their time batting off cries of “betrayal”, so leave any questions of “membership” or “joining” anything for another time, when it might be possible. For now, align, and be cooperative, it’s in everyone’s interest.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Gaslighting is a colloquialism, defined as manipulating someone into questioning their own perception of reality. The expression, which derives from the title of the 1944 film Gaslight, became popular in the mid-2010s. Merriam-Webster cites deception of one’s memory, perception of reality, or mental stability.

Is exactly how I mean it and what Starmer is doing.  He is constantly making false claims about brexit like ” no economic case for rejoin”  He says he wants a closer relationship then snubs every overture and is highly offensive to the EU in doing so.  He is claiming to be one thing and doing the opposite.  Its a clear attempt to alter folks perception of reality.

For now, align, and be cooperative, it’s in everyone’s interest.

I agree.  Unfortunately that is NOT what Starmer is doing.  Its what he is saying he is doing ( partly anyway) but his actions are very different.

Brexiter and mate are exclusive.

No, they aren’t. ?

the British people have said they want back in!

About 50%ish

Some of them have.

As above, but I believe only 17% or so are happy with Brexit as it is