.

It’s going to be a very short thread!

<p></thread></p>

</thread>

Snap!

Okay, that doesn’t work. Let’s try a more balanced approach of pros and cons.

Pros
It has got Farage off the nightly News updates – apart from the recent banking stuff

Cons
If I try to sell a LHD car everyone in Europe has to pay 30% import duty on it making it expensive and less people in the UK are just popping over to the continent due to the inconvenience.
Trying to get bike parts shipped out of Europe is a PITA with extra long delays
Trying to buy things from Europe and suddenly discovering suppliers who no longer ship to the UK because it is too much hassle

It reassures me that my decision to move abroad was the right one.

Although that is kind of offset by the fact I’m stuck living in the one country until I can get myself a new passport and be free to roam the EU again so overall it’s a net-loss, I reckon.

This is going to be hard.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/what-benefits-brexit-does-government-claim

Blue passports, and crowns on pint glasses, both of which we could’ve done while in the EU has we felt the need to have done so, are both claimed as benefits by govt depts. I think it’s fair to say that there is some barrel scraping going on here.

I got told that if I liked Europe that much I should go and live there. One too many times

So I did.

It’s even better than expected.

I got told that if I liked Europe that much I should go and live there.

I replied that I already did.

I got a few days paid work filling out carnet’s for a job in the EU.

The downside is the £’s I was paid are worth 20% less, the day rate seems to have been static for years, and I was only looking for work because I got made redundant about a week after the referendum.

A real benefit. I’m not an economist so don’t ask for any data to back this up. But I think now that people from the EU can’t easily come here to work, there’s a lot more pressure on employers wanting skilled employees. They can’t just hoover up graduates from EU universities.

Of course, this is a double-edged sword in many ways.

The whole shebang has proven to be a farce.
in the last few weeks we have had the announcement that for reasons, the CE/ukca marking changeover has been cancelled.

How many millions of £ have been squandered by British businesses in converting quality systems to comply with what is now accepted to be a white elephant?

And that’s not an isolated thing either…

All manner of EN->BS standards to re-purchase

Import and export of goods to EU – impacts everybody, but makes professional life incredibly difficult…

Aviation licensing – more cost for less utility and most professionals have left the uk system for employability reasons.

Never mind though, at least it stopped those pesky immigrants who staffed half the country!

Occasionally*, the VAT man will forget to add tax/duty to stuff I haven’t been charged EU VAT on.

*Once.

I havent the time to type out all the cons, let’s start with erosion of rights and protections though eh?

Con

I moved to Germany 10 years ago, I wouldn’t be able to now.

There also seems to ne a middle class snobbery about this, they seem to think if their kids are university educated they will still be able to move to the EU, they won’t they would still need to gain a visa for a job and prove it couldn’t be filled by an EU citizen (who are also highly educated).

Pro

The UK is no longer **** up the EU the way they did before brexit.

It’s spurred me to sort out the Irish passport that I’m eligible for.

But I think now that people from the EU can’t easily come here to work, there’s a lot more pressure on employers wanting skilled employees. They can’t just hoover up graduates from EU universities.

Translation:
Businesses and companies are worse off because they can’t bring in multi-national talent.
People are worse off because they can’t collaborate with foreign colleagues.

– £350m a week extra for the NHS.

– Low inflation

– a vibrant economy released from EU rules and having to CE certify stuff

– clean sewage-free rivers and seas

– no war-refugees-fleeing-persecution dying in our waters and our shores

–

Now surely nobody  is going to tell me these are not actually true.

Schadenfreude as all the racist pensioners with homes in Spain have discovered all too late that “send them back where they came from” also applies to them.

A real benefit. I’m not an economist so don’t ask for any data to back this up. But I think now that people from the EU can’t easily come here to work, there’s a lot more pressure on employers wanting skilled employees. They can’t just hoover up graduates from EU universities.

Now they’re coming from outside the EU…

“Annual net migration to the UK hit a record high of 606,000 last year, according to the latest official immigration statistics published last week.”

https://smithstonewalters.com/2023/06/01/uk-net-migration-hits-record-high-of-606000/#:~:text=Overview%20of%20the%20statistics,(%2B76%25)%20to%20487%2C771.

I have found the 180 page PDF from the government explaining it all. Unfortunately it starts with a piece by Boris Johnston but if you skip to page 8 there are a list of at least 13 ‘benefits’. Importunely when I realised these were the highlights, I couldn’t raise the will to ready further.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1054643/benefits-of-brexit.pdf

Ended free movement and taken back control of our borders. – This was one of the major benefits I got from being part of Europe
Restored democratic control over our lawmaking. – We had that anyway. The main problem was when the UK Government wanted to make laws that were against international law there was someone watching them. Again, I saw stopping the government breaking international law as a benefit.
Restored the UK Supreme Court as the final arbiter of the law that applies in the UK. – Repeat of point 2.
Made it tougher for EU criminals to enter the UK. This one might be true but I am not sure if it is actually working
Ended the acceptance of ID cards for most EU nationals travelling to the UK. – Repeat of point 1
Taken back control of our water. I don’t think that having 1 rogue nation doing their own thing while the rest of Europe have a holistic approach to fishing is a benefit.
Restored fair access to our welfare system. – Nothing to do with Europe. Welfare was always to treat those most in need. Not a benefit
Set our own tariff regime via the UK Global Tariff – Not a benefit when you have no global bargaining power. A bit like demanding everyone pays be £1,000,000 for every email I reply to. I have taken power but no-one else in the world cares.
Committed £180 million to modernise and streamline our import and export controls by creating the Single Trade Window – Where is the benefit in spending £180M to try and replicate what was already in place?
Given UK regulators the ability and the resources to make sovereign decisions about globally significant mergers. Basically a repeat of 2 but also allowing politician undue influence on economic matters for political short term gains
Launched and are undertaking reviews of the status and substance of retained EU law – Why is it a benefit to spend loads of money to review stuff that could be reviewed for free before?
Reintroduced our iconic blue passports. Who does this benefit and how, other than the French company that printed them?
Enabling businesses to use a crown stamp symbol on pint glasses. There was nothing stopping them doing this before, where’s the benefit?

They got rid of the stupid trailer test so after fudging it for 20 odd years with L plates and a passenger- I didn’t have to ever pay to do it ( I wasn’t ever going to as I found the idea that you could in theory fail a test about a skill you already have the license for, on an issue unrelated to driving the trailer, so offensive! 🤣) 🥳😎

The main one of course is that we are no longer in the EU. Which is great. If we can abolish the House of Lords, undo devolution, scrap the mayors and cut the amount of MP’s down to about 50, that would be even better.

It’s not Brexit’s fault that the Tory’s have bottled it by governing by Twitter opinion.

It’s not Brexit’s fault that the Tory’s have bottled it by governing by Twitter opinion.

I think the argument that not ALL the government F$%k ups are down to BREXIT is one of the truer statements in favour of BREXIT but is not really a ringing endorsement. It is a bit like your wife telling you that you are better at sex than your brother or any of the local rugby team.

Brexit benefits

From the point of view of an average inhabitant of the UK – zero.

But that wasn’t what it was about for the main backers of Leave – despite their protestations to the contrary.

You probably need to ask the people who actually benefitted from it and I doubt they will be on this thread.  Too busy counting their money.

Ireland is becoming richer. my company has relocated part of our operations over there.

You probably need to ask the people who actually benefitted from it and I doubt they will be on this thread. Too busy counting their money.

Is that because the people they employed to count their money can’t get a work visa enymore?

You’ve probably seen me write this before, but “Brexit isn’t the destination, it’s the vehicle”, and one of the greatest Trojan Horses ever.

It’s enabled the UK to move from its (slim) social democratic destination to one that will make life harder for those either not fortunate to be born into privilege or not able to get themselves into privilege through either intelligence, work, education,  luck and/or criminal acts.

It is then maintained by making life even harder for those outside this privilege group, and once you’re in it you’ll do ANYTHING not to drop out.  Go live & work in the USA for a while, this is our destination – just don’t be poor (or unlucky)…

This is the key “benefit” from Brexit, but only for a very, very limited number of people.

A real benefit. I’m not an economist so don’t ask for any data to back this up. But I think now that people from the EU can’t easily come here to work, there’s a lot more pressure on employers wanting skilled employees. They can’t just hoover up graduates from EU universities.

I’m genuinely curious as to how that is possibly a benefit of any sort.

If the outcome is that businesses requiring skilled employees (which is arguably not the same thing as inexperienced graduates) cannot now get the people they need to function because of cost or availability…

Their businesses will suffer. Not being able to get / afford the people you need can be a trigger/contributing event for a business failure.

Now of course we should also home grow talent for industries we see as important for the long term but by not bringing in overseas expertise we also restrict what we can learn from other markets and competition overseas.

Skilled workers would also pass the entry requirements.

Edited and removed the nonsense bit 🤪

Now they’re coming from outside the EU…

Predominantly from India.

Exactly as I predicted in 2016. I did think that “fewer Europeans = more brown people” might be a persuasive argument for the gammons but they were seemingly more concerned with “winning.”

just don’t be poor (or unlucky)…

Or ill.

Ireland is becoming richer. my company has relocated part of our operations over there.

The richest in the world per capita

https://www.forbesindia.com/article/explainers/top-10-richest-countries-in-the-world/87305/1

Genuinely the only benefit I can think of was a faster rollout of the Covid vaccine. , which tbf was quite a large benefit. I think in theory we could’ve done it anyway while in the EU but I suspect politically it would’ve been impossible.

Genuinely the only benefit I can think of was a faster rollout of the Covid vaccine. , which tbf was quite a large benefit. I think in theory we could’ve done it anyway while in the EU but I suspect politically it would’ve been impossible.

And the facts seem to say otherwise:

“Johnson’s claim that “taking back control” of the UK’s medicines regulatory agency meant the vaccine rollout was easier because the UK could approve it faster than EU countries is not accurate.

Existing legislation allowed the UK to take a different approach to the rest of Europe before it left the EU, and allowed for the UK to approve vaccines in emergencies without the European Medicines Agency.”

https://theferret.scot/claim-brexit-allowed-faster-vaccine-rollout-false/

BREXIT BENEFITS
1. A faster rollout of the Covid vaccine

Come on guys, we have to find more than one benefit surely?

Genuinely the only benefit I can think of was a faster rollout of the Covid vaccine. , which tbf was quite a large benefit. I think in theory we could’ve done it anyway while in the EU but I suspect politically it would’ve been impossible.

I thought that was a myth – we were still under the EU regs at the time.

I get duty free again visiting the UK from Ireland. Thanks chaps, or did you want benefits to the UK?

and one of the greatest Trojan Horses ever.

This article from 2017 lists most the folks who’ve shorted the pound at Brexit and have made millions (perhaps even billions in some cases) Forget the likes of Ress-Mogg, and Aaron Banks, although clearly they’ve both done very well out it. The folks you’ve never heard of before; Jeremy Hosking, Peter Cruddas, Peter Hargreaves, have all become even more fantastically rich than they ever were before, and Johnson (of course) got to be Prime Minister. This is largely why Brexit happened the way it did. This is why it needed Cambridge Analytica, this is why it needed Russian support. becasue the pay off was stupidly large amounts of money for the folks who could invest in the opportunity of a lifetime.

Oh, and all the secret bigots got to feel like they were just the same as loads of other people, and it wasn’t just them who felt they way they did about darkies. Loads and loads of folks (more than you’d think) continue to feel OK about that.

Crown on pint glasses.

BREXIT BENEFITS
1. A faster rollout of the Covid vaccine

Ah! You want made up ones.

Genuinely the only benefit I can think of was a faster rollout of the Covid vaccine. , which tbf was quite a large benefit. I think in theory we could’ve done it anyway while in the EU but I suspect politically it would’ve been impossible

connsidering we had opt outs for currency, CAP, Schengen, etc etc I’m sure it would have been easy enough to do

The main one of course is that we are no longer in the EU. Which is great. If we can abolish the House of Lords, undo devolution, scrap the mayors and cut the amount of MP’s down to about 50, that would be even better.

the fact that you say leaving is a benefit without actually detailing a benefit says a lot, the reality is were now poorer, weaker & more divided than ever and infact the House of Lords has been swollen hugely by this government, we now have more Lords than there are MEPs for the whole of the EU!

The extra costs, bureaucracy and loss of funding in the sector I work in: Science, are ridiculous, Im sure a less corrupt & incompetent government would’ve made a better job of it but this is nonsense:

It’s not Brexit’s fault that the Tory’s have bottled it by governing by Twitter opinion.

The ‘it’ here is what exactly? its been a harder brexit than many Leavers said it would be and that has only made things more difficult & costly

Austerity, Brexit, Trussonomics – all pushed by the same ideology has trashed the UK, fair play to @crosshair for trying to defend it though