Breathable waterproofs: An urban myth or am I just a sweaty betty?

IMO no point in goretex unless it's going to rain

Isn't that what we are talking about? Who wears goretex as normal clothes when it's dry? If you are, and you are complainign abotu sweat, then take the bloody thign off 🙂

I've used buffalo but they are insanely warm, so much so that I cant' wear it biking.

Was it the biking specific lightweight one, or the normal climbing type? I'd love to get one to try, but for £100 they are a bit much to buy on a whim.

Joe

Either. Very warm things they are. And expensive too I feel.

+1 for buffalos

I use the standard 'mountain shirt' version for winter riding, but admittedly it doesn't rain much in minus degrees. Even when the weather is slightly warmer, there's enough venting to make it ok. In other seasons I mainly stick with just a windproof over a jersey, it's enough to keep the chill off. I'm definitely more of a warm-sponge than boil-in-the-bag. IMO it's far better to be wet and comfortable than wet and overheated.

I do occasionally use waterproof lowers though, for comfort's sake.

For most winter riding I find a gillet over a thick woolly jumper over a merino base layer breathes nicely and is thick enough to stop the wind. It can also handle light rain. It was good enough for most of the 24hrs in the 09 Puffer.

When the rain gets heavier then it's time for a breathable top.

IMO it's far better to be wet and comfortable than wet and overheated

The weird thing is I notice I am uncomfortable/damp from sweat before I feel like I'm over-heating. On a ride at the weekend – on a long steep draggy grass climb – I stopped to put my jacket ON because I was cold. I already had a base layer and a cycling jersey on. I was still sweating of course. I used to get hot, sweat, then get clammy. Recently I seem to be foregoing the "get hot" bit. Maybe coincidence, but I tend to sweat a lot in air-conditioned rooms too, whether I'm hot or not.

For the record I am only talking about waterproofs for when it's raining a lot.

Personally, in heavy rain I find myself damp from my own sweat and warm, which I find preferable to being soaked from rain and cold. When the rain is heavy enough to soak through a windproof and fleece and I come into contact with rain it get cold and nasty.

Tortoise – you may be one of those people who over-sweat and this might be chilling you more than you need…

throw a bit of talc down my chest pre-ride, eh?

I have the cycling specific Buffalo – it's far too warm for me.

I've never found a waterproof/breathable jacket that actually works.

Don't cycle in the rain!

If you think the breathability of Event or Gore-Tex is bad you should try one of the cheaper Hi-Viz bright yellow jackets. I bought an Altura Nightvision a good few years ago and it was pure boil in the bag. It had pitzips and breathable pockets but I still had to really control my effort to prevent swimming in it. I eventually figured out what effort I could make it work at for the hour long commute but it was always best to carry it in the bag – and it was a heavy b*&^&*.
I also had Fox rain jacket that a was see through plastic shell and it was really dreadfull – purely for the DH crowd.

My newer Gore jacket is much better – not brilliant but much better. Don't expect miracles – it's a sweaty sport we do and a certain amount wet inside has to be expected. But at last it's wet and warm when it's cold out.

On a side note – I was at Glentress in the summer and it was raining. I could not believe all the people riding out of the car park with jackets and even trousers on… it was so stupid when it was warm out and all you needed was a long sleeve top and maybe a windproof in the bag.

We mountain bikers seem to be obsessed with "kit", and hence the answer to all the conditions we ride in is to throw more "kit" at them. The less you need to wear the better in my opinion. It's a 30min ride uphill to the forest where I usually ride which is a great warm-up even in the rain, it's also a horrible 10min freeze down on the way back home. I tend to ride-out without a jacket and pack a windproof/waterproof for the way home (in the winter I also pack an extra warm layer and a dry hat). Common sense.

If conditions are varible, showers likely and the temperature cool I wear softshell jackets (not 'windproof' shells a la montane). I have an old howies cross and an arcteryx epsilon. They shrug 90% of the worst off, keep the wind chill out and are by far the most breathible kind of shell I've ever used.

If its too hot for that I just wear a baselayer and maybe a gilet. If you get wet, so be it, thats life. Wearing a waterproof will just make me utterly miserable. If you keep moving you feel fine, if you have to stop I usually carry a montane windproof which packs down to the size of a desert apple and will keep you warm enough.

Its only if its very cold and constant stair-rod rain that'll get me into a 'waterproof' if I'm out biking. For me, in these conditions, eVent is the best of a bad bunch, due to the fact some sweat can wick into my baselayer and evaporate as vapour, rsather than having to coat the inside of the jacket before it can transport through. Heavy rain reduces that process to a crawl mind, made worse if the DWR is a bit worse for wear.

Out walking mind, and my Rab eVent is the comfiest thing ever, becuase you rarely get hot enough to cook like you do on the bike, and you can generally cool/dry off at the top of the hill in the wind looking at the view 🙂

On a side note – I was at Glentress in the summer and it was raining. I could not believe all the people riding out of the car park with jackets and even trousers on… it was so stupid when it was warm out and all you needed was a long sleeve top and maybe a windproof in the bag.

Same at the Welsh trail centres. It's always rather amusing when you meet the riders that left before you, stripping down half way up the first climb, whist dripping all over there 100-140mm allmountainfreeridelighttrailbikes. Anyone would think they where riding arcoss the artic 😆

We mountain bikers seem to be obsessed with "kit",

Some of us do. That's also true of non-mountain bikers too 🙂

On the Buffalo theme, I've got a (very) old Polaris MTB-specific top which works on the same principle, but is thinner, with a 100 weight fleece inner. It works a treat. Fantastically breathable, keeps me fairly dry and very warm with just a baselayer in the coldest conditions. Wish they still made them.

FFS how on earth do you expect a waterproof jacket to allow your sweat to evaporate ? Imagine for just one minute you are on a stationary exercise bike, you are becoming too warm and decide to remove your top to allow more cooling, yet still, even with bare skin and a cooling breeze from a fan or natural ventilation, beads of sweat will form and before long you will be covered in perspiration. If your skin cannot cool itself by the evaporation of moisture from the surface of the skin on its own how do you expect a waterproof breathable jacket to help ? Perhaps it is blessed with some magic snake oil !! Yes, some waterproofs are better than others and as the earlier contributor has pointed out they are a lot better than the non breathable ones, but to expect a jacket to perform better than your own skin i don`t really think is possible. Apologies for the semi rant but some people DO believe what the marketing departments tell them is the truth !!

Micky – read my posts about the wicking. Plus when it's miserable out it's often cold. If you are as you say on a turbo and have enough wind blowing at you you won't get sweaty.. that's how it works.

I'm afraid, much as you appear to enjoy being cynical, that breathable fabrics are real and proven to allow water vapour through.

Whether or not this is ideal for your body and your riding type is another question, but you can increase efficacy by wearing the right stuff underneath.

I don't think anyone's under the illusion that wearing goretex will make you sweat free (we aren't that stupid) or somehow less sweaty than if you were wearing nothing; and what's more, the marketing doesn't tell us that either.

The only garments that actually keep me feeling dry have pertex outers e.g. shells or Buffalo/montane. Because they are hydrophilic, they suck sweat out, spread and evaporate it. Light rain is evaporated too. They yield when the rain gets heavy though – time to put the Goretex on.

Other windproof and all waterproof garments* have a more substantial barrier which means if you sweat, you will get damp to some extent. Event and Gore P are currently the best waterproofs ATM.

*Paramo is very different and very breathable, but it's heavy

Tip: wear thin thermal layers and after you've warmed up on the initial climb, take a layer off. This will help reduce dampness loads.

eVent is better than goretex, especially for UK conditions – as outlined above, cos it's made differently. It's more like Paramo.

Also, paramo looks like a shellsuit or a cheap ski jacket from 1985.

For me, spending money on a waterproof jacket is pointless, as even the very best will let in some water at the neck and bottom when I'm riding, and none of them can get rid of water vapour quick enough, so I end up a sweaty mess anyway. Besides I'd be mighty jacked off if I ripped a 150 quid jacket when falling off my bike.

Edit: also I'm not a roady gaylord so getting wet and muddy is fun.

molgrips i am becoming bored with this, despite a lot of people stating that they dont reckon much to so called breathable fabrics of whatever make through personal experience, its your dogged insistance that they do breathe and we all are either not wearing the correct undies, not zipping it up and down enough, at the wrong times, and they are scientifically proven garments blah blah…. Go ouside on the windiest day you can find, set up your turbo trainer and come back and tell me you did not have a bit of sweat on you. Thats how it works in the real world. I am not saying that the fabrics don`t work period, but that in a cyclists case the amount of heat produced cannot possibly be lost through evaporation through 2 or more layers however wicking they might be, and therefore the wearer becomes wet and sweaty on the inside ergo the garment is not breathable enough. It does work for walkers who produce far less heat as the exercise they are performing is less intense. Call me Mr.Cynical all you like, but like myself, it appears others are not very impressed by their breathable jackets either ? The marketing will tell you that jacket XYZ will keep you dry, what it wont say is you will be piss wet through on the inside, which was the reason for the OP. The simple fact is that despite the makers claims of breathability all manner of cyclists have found these claims somewhat to the contrary, and some folk have paid a handsome amount of money to find this out !!

"The simple fact is that despite the makers claims of breathability all manner of cyclists have found these claims somewhat to the contrary,"

No, the simple fact is that you're assuming that everyone else has found the same as you, which isn't the case. Molgrips is hardly the only person out there who's happy with their waterproofs, you're just choosing to present your opinion as some unavoidable truth.

I get a little damp inside my altura attack jacket, but less so than I do inside a less breathable jacket, which is the entire point- and it keeps the rain out. That's what it's supposed to do, that's what it does.

The answer for this climate is Harris Tweed close woven. Real men wear it unlined 🙂