Brain Fart: Does this idea have legs?

Mini XC

Same format as Mini DH and to some extent the recent trend for proper enduro races (rather than 100miles of fire road or 24 hours in a field).

3 x ~0.5-1mile tracks with a bias towards cornering, pumping, small jumps and sprints/short climbs. Sections should have negligable overall climb/desent. Basicly XC, but lost roadies and 29ers are going to struggle.

Fastest overall time wins.

See, I think it could work, more sociable than an XC race as there’s more time between runs to chat. More accessible than DH as no extra bike is required, any old mid range hardtail will probably be quickest. Less training required than a XC, anyone could fit in 3x 1hour sessions a week to improve speed with no need to wory about doing 5 hour endurance rides.

A good example course could be something like…

Swinley;

1)Seagull (all three sections)
2)Stickler and Tank Traps
3)DeerStalker and Labrynth.

What do you think, does this idea have legs?

Yes Im sure – I remember doing something similar in the States. Let me see if I can find the link..

I’ve never done one, but the concept sounds a little similar to stuff like that Kona Mashup thing?

no extra bike is required, any old mid range hardtail will probably be quickest.

but then we don’t need a new bike. 😕 Mashup/avalanche enduro is rarely mentioed in the press without someone gushing about how they couldn’t have done it without their new lightweight 6″ enduro bike.

Good idea in principle though: our mates have pondered with doing unofficial night time trials in our local woods, but we are far too disorganised and the ranger lives there too.

might be fun as part of a ‘festival’ type event but I don’t think you’d get many people travelling to take part if you only end up with 15 mins riding.

It might work as the basis of some of the enduro events – longer connecting sections to complete within time limits with then these sections giving you time bonuses or something?

I was thinking allong the lines of the enduro races, but without the gravity bias, theres not much need for a 6″ bike in the UK, so I was pondering how do you design a race series arround a bike, the ones I had in my head were hardtails, ~27lb with 100mm forks, i.e. the bike 99% of mountainbikers start off with. Not a superlight XC bike to help you up the climbs (because there aren’t any notable ones) and not a full susser because it would struggle on the sprints.

I don’t think you’d get many people travelling to take part if you only end up with 15 mins riding.

The average UK DH race is 2-3 min?

Sounds a bit like short track racing, or dirt crits, both been done.

Google Glentress Dirt Crits.

This could work – kinda like roller racing without rollers on mtb’s outside? Uhh maybe not? You know what I mean – crazy ass fast racing for a short race with perhaps some kind of daftness thrown in. Have a look at this for more info..

Soil Saloon[/url]

Let me know if you want any help.

Sounds good to me.
I’d give it a go and “struggle” round on my 29er. 😉

The average UK DH race is 2-3 min of sheer pant-filling terror

FTFY

I guess so, it’s just XC riders are more attuned to hours of near vomit effort. Culturally it’s different; maybe in turn that might mean that more DH orientated people would also take part.

Like I said, would be great as part of a festival.

A 1 mile techy lap sounds fun. You’d need to include several safe overtaking opportunities in the lap too.

Would work well for spectators.

Are people going to be set off one at a time against the clock at time intervals or just set of in groups? How will you stop it turning into a traffic jam?

Sounds fun – I’d do it. Time-trial XC, so you are sort of competing with yourself for a time rather than getting tangled up with slowr/faster riders.

sounds like it could be lots of fun (it would have to be an entertaining lap – not just cyclo-cross).

where do i enter?

thisisnotaspoon – Member

“I don’t think you’d get many people travelling to take part if you only end up with 15 mins riding”

The average UK DH race is 2-3 min?

good point – and the entries are usually full within minutes of opening…

Its not a bad idea.

Some of the existing Enduros get pretty close to this format, Last years Ae Avalanche wasn’t particulary “gravity focussed” bar the final stage.

Mind you the Innerliethen enduro last week made me feel like I’d brought a knife to a gunfight,

I think it just getting the balance right between XC and DH

I was thinking rally/enduro style starts so there’d be 30 second gaps between starters (on a 5 min course should be enough with seeding).

Only problem is seeding it, on the one hand seeding would allow closer start times/quicker turnaround, on the other hanging arround wth a bunch of mates would be recuded as you could be strung out over an hour.

As others have hinted. It would have to be a TT type event not mass start to avoid jams and heats through out the the day so people felt it was worth a day out.

+ Beer

+ BBQ.

Yes.

Beer.

BBQ.

Less training required than a XC

I’m not sure that’s true. If it became as competitive as trad XC, you’d still have to put the same hours in to be competitive, because if you don’t, someone else will.

For the faster guys the innerleithen enduro had under 20 minutes of timed riding but still felt like a pretty full day.

As far as timing goes… If you can use a start/finish system like a timing mat or dibber, then you don’t need to worry about rigid 30 second departures as you do with stopwatching. Also if you’ve got the kit and the marshalls for multiple stages then people could do it in different orders, which would break up the traffic a lot.

I think the hard sell might be to convince that group of riders to pay money for “just riding at a trail centre”.

Kona did it with the Mash Up scam.
£30 to ride five sections of a trail centre.
The marshals/timekeepers packed up at 12:00 on two of the sections and the electronic timing on the other three didn’t work properly.

I like it. To me, XC racing courses are way too easy nowdays.

I prefer the Singletrack Weekender type thing though.

I think the Mashup idea was pretty decent tbh, just a shame they failed so badly at it. Ideally you’d want something you can’t normally get at the ride location other than just timing- run sections in reverse maybe, or some new trail for it.

But tbh for me, I like the idea of a race that’s a lot like a regular ride- I do my regular rides because I like riding like that, so racing like that seems like a good idea too. After 10UTB last year I ended up thinking “This is just like riding a bike only worse” so this sort of format could be “This is just like riding a bike only better”

Sounds like fun to me – even on a 29er 🙂

I’m sure I heard of soemthing similar going off in the States. Run on a slight decline so that not too much effort or time was wasted on climbing. Sounds like a fun way to do it.

did something similar at the first BigBikeBash. XC short course. was awesome watching 20 guys sprint down the opening straight into the first corner!

Anyone know that system they used at the Kona Mash Up? Free Lap (link) has always seemed like a good idea to me. It shouldn’t really be rocket science to make the timing work.

It definitely sounds like a fun things to do. Plenty of care to be taken in getting it to work as an event, though.

Like the idea, but (depending on how many entered), maybe slightly longer sessions?

Oh, and I’m guessing you are talking TT style individual starts rather than mass starts? There are a number of short track XC and dirt crit races around, afaik they are all mass start though. What I’ve always liked the idea of is something like the Kona mash-up but with more of an XC focus. A long loop but only timing the fun sections. You can start in groups so you could ride most of it with your mates, just when you get to a timed section you go at 30 second intervals then you can re-group at the end of the section then pootle the non-timed bit until you got to the next one.

We already do this at the Big Bike Bash.

Sorry to put a downer on things but you need to cost it.

Land access
Footpath closure notices (if required)
Insurance
First aid
Marshals
Tape
Signage
Timing
PA
Admin
Contingency

Once you know what it will cost you can work out how many punters you need to break even.

It is at this point when you can tell if it has legs.

What do you think, does this idea have legs?

I don’t know, I presume that posting it on here is the equivalent of running it up the flagpole and seeing who salutes? Nice to see some outside-the-box thinking, it’s almost a paradigm shift in XC racing…

🙄

Sorry, it had to be done… 😉

Harry, you’re assuming it’s all done legally. 😉
What’s to stop a bunch mates turning up in the Wyre Forest,or wherever, with bikes and stop watches and just having a go ?
Not all that much different to a normal forum ride, except that parts of it are timed.

What’s to stop a bunch mates turning up in the Wyre Forest,or wherever, with bikes and stop watches and just having a go ?

Nothing.

But if it starts becoming an organised and advertised “event” then it starts to get legal.

Yeah, I guess it depends on where it’s going.
I was thinking something like critical mass, but on a much smaller scale, maybe only a dozen or so entrants, maybe with a bit of South Downs Way end to end influence as well. Grass roots and informal.
Any group of riders could get set up a course in their local area and time themselves, then travel around and get timed on someone else’s course.

What-crazy legs said, seem to be more yay’s than nay’s so I might look into it a bit more.

The problem with freelap is everyone needs an (expensive) watch with the cheep bits in the posts (so good becasue the posts can be left on the hill/burried/hidden and people ‘own’ the watch). Every other timing system works with either an ID chip on the racer and the expensive bits in the ‘posts’ or nothing on the racer and a guy with a clipboard making a note of their number.

Reading your posts, I think we have beaten you to it http://www.ukgravityenduro.co.uk
Cheers
Parr

Sounds good to me! You could have a series of rounds so once everyone has done a timed run of each course the slowest get cut and you repeat. That way you’d get a good amount of riding in.

Yes, but without the ‘gravity’

Courses would be essentialy flat to remove the ‘need’ however imagied for a 6″ ‘all mountain’ bike.

Basicaly an XC race, on XC bikes, but with the fire road sections none timed, and no trafic on the singletrack.