Not good times for everyone – collapse of the market, the greatest crisis in the construction industry in history, the highest level of home repossession ever, and a Tory government that sat on its arse and did **** all – apart from claiming some bollocks about “adjustment” in the market.

Note smiley! 🤦‍♂️

I can’t see that the market is any better now. All the measures that were meant to calm it and bring stability have failed.

Only difference is that the mortgage companies and developers have the power now and dictate the market.

Cut the head off the housing market by introducing a 100% tax for foreign buyers.
That will stop the London ripple spreading across the country.
British Homes For British People.
( To actually bloody live in)

Increasing the interest rate for these loans doesn’t really offset the risk to lenders from increased defaulting, in fact it just makes default much more likely.

Depending on the size of discount that could still come out positive for the banks.

Measures to vastly increase the supply of housing stock, social and private, seem to be the only way to deal with this imbalance, plus punitive taxation on buy-to-let lending, second homes, air b&b type stuff.

The former would be likely to deflate house prices and so get the primary voters upset. As would the taxing.
So best just to extend the failed policies of the past still further.

So… 99% agreement that the key thing is to get on and build more social housing stock?

Depending on the size of discount that could still come out positive for the banks.

Not sure about that. Repossessed houses are often auctioned at a significant discount – as much as 20 or 30%. It is the deposit that provides some buffer against that for the lender, but even then defaults usually mean a loss unless the customer has built up a fair bit of equity via payments. It’s a terrible situation for the customer too, as they will be left with the difference as a debt hanging over them.

So… 99% agreement that the key thing is to get on and build more social housing stock?

Yes from me.

I’ve never seen the logic of right-to-buy. Just build a shit-ton of decent quality homes and make the rent affordable to someone on min-wage.

I look at the council estates near me built in the 50s and 60s and they are good-sized, well built homes with decent gardens and car parking. Not the bloody rabbit hutches being knocked up now for minimum cost and max profit.

The government/local authorities should be the developers. Not rely on private companies giving up a tiny percentage of new estates to social housing.

I’ve said it before, 100% estate inheritance tax. You want your parents house? Buy it at market value, use the money to build more social housing.

There’s no moral right to the money you’ve not earned. I understand it would be a non Starter, but we have to at least have a discussion

Walk around any city & you’ll see dozens if not hundreds of unused flats above shops. New builds aren’t the only solution to the housing crisis but that’s another thread altogether.

I’ve got a feeling the ‘like for like’ bit is the real story here. I live in a street that’s mixed private ownership and social (housing association) housing, the private houses are all well insulated, built to a higher standard, and on mains gas. The social housing isn’t on mains gas (despite being literally next door to me) and didn’t even have double glazing till last year. The housing association has spent the absolute minimum on them in the (20? years) they have had them, it will cost them a lot of money to bring them up to a reasonable standard. They wouldn’t be allowed to build new houses that poor anymore. Yhey must be absolutely wetting themselves over the idea they could flog them off at around the current ‘minimum 3 bed house in a nice area’ prices (which lets face it, is what they are going to go for one way or another, with current demand being what it is. And then have the government give them a similarly sized new house built to modern standards in return. I’ve a feeling this is a way of upgrading social housing stock at no cost to the housing associations, not a scheme to help long term housing association tenants got onto the property ladder at all.

As an aside… building new social housing WITHOUT mains gas connections will probably be the norm in the near future. Properly insulated homes offering low cost heating probably needs to happen in the “not for sale” part of the housing sector first, due to the additional build costs. Can be done cheaper in more densely packed together homes as well, which social housing mostly is.

Isn’t it about time for 100% mortgages for 1st time/non property owning buyers?

We borrowed 5% as a “car loan” and had a 95% mortgage. Paid the loan off over three years. It would be harder if a 20% deposit is now needed for a mortgage.

The current announcement is just noise and nothing lasting will come of it.

like for like and rebuild all that are sold is obvious nonsense

Who is going to pay? Sell a house at a discount you have to find the difference between the sale price and the rebuild price. Its never going to happen.

the UK housing situation is bonkers and its a political impossibilty to cure it because anything to sort it out devalues property and upsets the middle classes

What we actually need is proper rent controls, proper standards for rentals, decent leases that give security and a massive programme of publicly owned house building.

The “market” is so skewed in favour of those who own property.

Most of Europe there is a fr greater % of people who rent – because they have these provisions. for many folk a decent secure rental is a far better proposition than buying in that its hassle free, secure and cheaper if done properly.

I’ve never seen the logic of right-to-buy.

Turn everyone into homeowning Tory voters… Thought that much was obvious.

Also, wasn’t one of the given reasons that “owners take better care of their houses”, apparently.

I might be misremembering it.

TiRed – how did you get away with that? – I’ve always been trempted to try that, but isn;t it strictly speaking illegal/fraud ? – although I doubt anyone would actually care if you are paying everything off.

There was a time when financial institutions (in the UK as well as the USA) were opening pushing the idea that a proportion of your new mortgage could send you holiday, pay for a wedding, get you that new car. One of many things that accelerated us into the credit crunch.

[ edit: I misunderstood… combining a unsecured personal loan and a mortgage to buy a home, without declaring that to both lenders, is and has always been extremely dodgy ]

Maintaining house prices for the middle class is bonkers. If all house prices fell by 50% what would be the difference? At least the younger generation would stand a chance. What they need to do is introduce rent controls (like in the past) and tax second plus homes out of existence. Problem is loads of politicianxs are landlords and Erik Armrest said at the beginning of lockdown he would defend the mortgagers and the landlords against defaulting. So, currently, no hope. Rentseeking is just a lazy way of screwing those in need of a roof.

Turn everyone into homeowning Tory voters

Right to buy was a Labour policy in a 50’s? election.  It wasn’t meant to be the free for all the Tories turned it into, but it was largely invented by Labour

Turn everyone into homeowning Tory voters

More likely indebted wage slaves that can’t rock the boat.

If all house prices fell by 50% what would be the difference?

You’d get a lot of people unable to move house, (relocation, larger place to suit new circumstances, maybe even downsize in extreme cases) because they’d be in massive negative equity.

You’re right about the relative difference of house prices though for the property you live in.

You’d get a lot of people unable to move house

Currently unable to move as all the prices around us have become unaffordable. We could only afford a same size or smaller property.

Sell a house at a discount you have to find the difference between the sale price and the rebuild price.

You’re missing the point that the cost to build a house is not the same as the selling price, particularly if you can control the land costs through restrictive planning consent. It should be possible to build new for less than a reasonably discounted house, plus you need to take into account rent contributions which will also offset the upfront cost of the new build.

Right to buy in principle is a great idea, a genuine redistrubutor of wealth, locking people into lifelong renting just consolidates wealth to the the landlords.

It’s like everything else it needs to be done properly and will take 10 to 15 years to impact. There’s no political will to sort the issues though or take on vested interests which include the housing associations.

I’ve never seen the logic of right-to-buy.

Turn everyone into homeowning Tory voters

Ok I am absolutely NOT a Tory, and I don’t support the right to buy up social housing, but I don’t think renting all your life is a good idea, at least not from private landlords.

If you rent because, your hard earned cash is going to some else’s pocket – someone who already had money to invest so was well off. That means money is being transferred from poorer people (who can’t afford to buy) to rich people, and this is fundamentally a bad thing in my view.

If poorer people can manage buy a house, then it is likely that their grandkids will get a windfall as they are starting out in life. These days that is likely to be swallowed up by housing costs, so home ownership in itself isn’t a solution to everything. Other things would be required to control house prices otherwise the system just readjusts itself back to where we are now.

I think the real reason Tories created right-to-buy was to actually get rid of social housing and make it not the government’s problem, which is their end goal.

We could only afford a same size

Being unable to move house affects labour mobility. If you needed a job and one was available elsewhere, you’d be able to sell up and move to the same sized house (in theory).

How’s about right to buy for private renters?

TiRed – how did you get away with that? – I’ve always been trempted to try that, but isn;t it strictly speaking illegal/fraud ? – although I doubt anyone would actually care if you are paying everything off.

TBH your allowed to to sell the car as the moneys ‘unsecured'(Assuming that its not one of them horrible secured loans) so all that has been done is missing out the buying step 🙂

Although if you read the small print it’s probably very naughty.

molgrips – if you have a secure tenancy and rent is a lot cheaper than buying without all the hassle of home ownership then renting makes sense for a great many folk. This is how it works all over europe. No need to worry about house repair bills, no need to worry about interest rate rises and the reduced cost means you can build up savings or a pension.

its only because our housing market is so skewed that buying seems to make sense for many folk

Secure long term high quality rent controlled tenancies are the norm in the rest of europe

That means money is being transferred from poorer people (who can’t afford to buy) to rich people, and this is fundamentally a bad thing in my view.

Of course it is but as above this is a function of our dysfunctional housing market – not an inherent issue with renting.

Being unable to move house affects labour mobility. If you needed a job and one was available elsewhere, you’d be able to sell up and move to the same sized house (in theory).

This mobility block is already there if the jobs are in areas with higher house prices (which of course they are, because people want to live there because of the jobs).

Isn’t it about time for 100% mortgages for 1st time/non property owning buyers?

They used to be a thing.

Mrs_oab and I bought a house on student loan as deposit + 95% mortgage.
After a year, we re-mortgaged at 110% mortgage (Northern Rock anyone?) to renovate the place.

+1 on right to buy being nothing but garnering more voters for Conservatives.

Boris Johnson reminds everybody that last year the UK had the fastest growth in G7.

Next year, however 👇🏼 pic.twitter.com/wVMi54fIKO

— Pippa Crerar (@PippaCrerar) June 9, 2022

Second only to Russia in terms of lack of growth for next year.

The circus that is the triple whammy of ideologically doomed – late, clumsy and corrupt clowns.

(I think projections are generally rubbish and I reckon it will be worse.)

(I think projections are generally rubbish and I reckon it will be worse.)

Isnt most of the growth down to how badly the UK performed in the previous period and if the performance over all of the pandemic is taken the UK does rather badly.

Raised a smirk here…

https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1534637104344489984/photo/1

This mobility block is already there if the jobs are in areas with higher house prices (which of course they are, because people want to live there because of the jobs).

Surely that’s the other way around? Higher house prices in the “non-industrial” areas (suburbs) where people actually want to live and then they commute to the high rise office environment or the industrial sector?

That brings transport into the equation too – it’s all well and good having a supply of accessible housing but you’re still incredibly constricted on education, job and social opportunities if the transport isn’t there to allow people to move around effectively and efficiently (ideally without the cost and restriction of owning a private car).
It’s why you can’t just plonk a load of cheap houses down on some arse end of greenbelt and expect it to solve problems, it won’t. If there are no / limited job opportunities, transport provision and social services then all you’ve done is build something which will end up in 5-10 years as a deprived ghetto.

Raised a smirk here…

When pizza throws shade at the government you know we’re ****

Meanwhile, while everyones talking about housing, the government is getting ready to rip up the Northern Ireland protocol.

Radio 4 are reporting that now he’s so weak he’s having to court the ERG headbangers again, who along with the DUP are demanding the hardest possible rupture with the EU, which means unilaterally dumping major parts of the withdrawal agreement. Their proposals have been repeatedly re-written, getting more and more hardline every time to pacify the nutters (who will never actually be pacified) and sod the consequences for the rest of us

It’s also been revealed that when brainbox Braverman said that their independent legal advice was that this wouldn’t be in contravention of international law, they hadn’t actually sought any independent legal advice. Instead, they just decided themselves that it wouldn’t be in contravention of international law so thats that.

So our government’s solution to the cost of living crisis, souring inflation and a stagnating economy is to break international law, start a trade war with the EU, piss off the Americans and put a hand grenade under the Good Friday Agreement

I really just truly despair at the irreparable damage these idiots are bringing on this country. They’re going to completely destroy our economy, our international reputation is already in tatters, but the seem hell bent on turning us into a pariah state. All of it sacrificed on the alter of Boris’s gargantuan ego and the unhinged lunacy that is Brexit

Binners, your contributions are infinitely superior to pasting up 1970s light humour. Stick with it.

@BillMC – I just stay away from the Keir Starmer thread nowadays and stick to this, football and occasionally even some stuff about bikes

For example: Today I learnt what carbon gripper paste is and went to buy some. I had been unaware of its existence until yesterdays road ride when I started getting that sinking feeling with my new blingy carbon seatpost 😂

It just gets worse. So here he is now promising homes for all, reduced taxes and using a Labour slogan to promote it. All with no substance behind it.

He’s got nothing, just sound bites of what he thinks people want to hear to keep himself in a job. It’s so transparent it’s painful.

Meanwhile, fuel is at £2 per litre, rail goes on strike in 2 weeks, food shortages are being announced from which panic buying will start…. Jesus!

they hadn’t actually sought any independent legal advice

Worse than that. They specifically told people working on possible legislation (many of whom have good knowledge of international law, trade and treaties) not to question the legality of the proposals. Wilful blindness. Something essential to keep “the project” moving in the face of facts and reality.

That may be so Binners – but BoJo the Clown has to get the legislation to disapply the NIP past UK Parly. This may be a problem for him….. I am buying popcorn.

Today I learnt what carbon gripper paste is

Really good for dropper posts as well. Stops you having to clamp them too tight to stop the fixed part of the post dropping in the frame. Good for bars in stems as well, not just carbon ones… etc etc.