Bob Crow – May a thousand wasps infest his scrotal area….

Not so long ago in ther papers it was how little the average squaddie earnt, but i was surprised to find that NHS nurses earn significantly less than HM Forces Nurses.

NHS nurses earn significantly less than HM Forces Nurses

Depends on what you’re comparing – some of the nurses in the armed forces will be officers, but then some of the nurses in the NHS will be in management.

I’m sure the likes of Flashy and Tootall would be only too happy if their employers started cutting their wages, increasing their hours, giving them poor working conditions etc…

As usual, we’ve got a couple of ignorant blinkered right-wingers who don’t actually have any idea of the working conditions and situation of the people they feel so vitriolic towards. Because unless something affects them personally, like not being able to get to work on time, they really don’t give a stuff about what affects others. Pure selfishness and a complete lack of empathy.

Ironic though how both of them enjoy many rights in their jobs because of the work done by UK trade unions though, innit?

I admit – my wages haven’t been cut – just frozen – but as for hours and working conditions – I have and probably will work again in conditions you would point blank refuse to. I am also not right wing – just not left wing – what you see depends on where you are standing and I happen to stand a little closer to the centre than you. Which is fine.
I fully support the worker’s right to withdraw labour – in most circumstances / jobs. I don’t like that Bob Crowe will go nuclear so quickly and strike – which most of the other unions disagree with as well. I feel no vitriol to the union members at all – their leadership have nothing in their arsenal between ‘work’ and ‘not work’, which is a real shame.

I enjoy no rights in my job that come from union activity. Or my previous job.

Scamper – Member

I was specifically talking about health and safety legislation, but never mind.

The Health and Safety at Work Act was introduced by a Labour government, that’s an “Old” Labour government btw, under intense pressure from the affiliated unions.

Train drivers earn £10k on average more than a nurse.

So predictable………….Bob Crow gets criticised because train drivers earn a good wage ! 😀

I think you’ll that most train drivers are ASLEF members btw.

……and that they earn considerably less than the bankers who screwed the country.

Looking forward to 2012, pre-Olympics to see what reason Mr Crowe will come up with to threaten another shutdown of the tube.

I take your point johnners, but as far as possible like for like.

no FACTS at my fingertips i’m afraid, just ancedotal evidence from myself and my H&S colleagues over the last 20 years.

Ooh can i play this game where i just make unevidenmced assertions and back them up with ill defined anecdotal evidence ?
I am not swayed by the evidence you have presented not least because you have still not presented any

Elfinsafety – Member

Ooh, isn’t it Socialist ideologies that have brought us free healthcare, education and stuff like that?

No,it wasn’t actually.

Yes it was, actually.

😆

So. Who’s going first with evidence, then?

No need. I’m right.

Like, that was ever in doubt anyway… 🙄

Only as long as TJ says so…

Why hasn’t he been on this thread anyway? Or is he on some kind of self-imposed ban from this kind of thing?

Junkyard – i’m allowed my opinion based on experience if its all the same to you. Obviously i could wittle on about the drop in the number of prosecutions over the past ten years, but there is of course other stats which can paint a different picture.

Why hasn’t he been on this thread anyway? Or is he on some kind of self-imposed ban from this kind of thing

Has anyone checked that he’s taken the milk in and collected his copy of People’s Friend from the newsagents as usual? – perhaps someone could go around and shout through the letterbox?

Isn’t it Socialist Liberal ideologies that have brought us free healthcare, education and stuff like that?

FTFY

1905 Unemployed Workmen Act: labour exchanges.
1906 Education Act: free school meals. 1907 School Medical Service.
1908 Old Age Pensions: these were non-contributory.
1909 Labour exchanges.
1911 National Insurance Act: this covered health and unemployment.

All under Liberal Governments of Campbell-Bannerman and Asquith

of course you are entitled to your opinion but I only wished to check whether your opinion was valid based on the evidence- does that sound a daft thing to do?.

I have no fact or opinion on your statement other than your opinion so far has no facts – I an not searching for an argument tbh
Re the socialist principles it is an interesting mixed picture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report

Has anyone checked that he’s taken the milk in

Difficult to say; apparently this demented old hag was seen loitering outside his flat earlier:

Wunundred!

What’s this about a beverage report? I had some nice beer with Bullheart on Tuesday night…

All under Liberal Governments of Campbell-Bannerman and Asquith

Which will explain why many trade unions, such as the N.U.M., sponsored the Liberal Party then. Of course all that changed when the trade unions realise that the Liberal Party couldn’t be trusted and that they needed to form their own political party to represent them in parliament.

As Elfie points out, free healthcare, education and stuff like that, are socialist principles, which have nothing to do with free-market capitalism – in fact they are in complete contradiction to free-market capitalism.

So are you claiming Lloyd George was a socialist now Ernie?

Yes.

He just din’t want to admit it.

I wouldn’t claim that George Bush was a socialist, but I would certainly claim that he implemented socialist principles towards the end of his tenure as US president …….. and in a very big way too.

Stop pretending to be an idiot Zulu-Eleven, and stop treating me like one……..you know I can’t be arsed with that sort of bollox. You know exactly what I meant.

No Ernie – Socialist principles have nothing to do with this.

The very ethos of socialism, its defining characteristic, is a belief in an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled co-operatively – this has nothing whatsoever to do with the existence of national insurance/health systems, schooling or support systems, its been one of the long standing misrepresentations and deliberate confusion of what socialism means (by both sides of the political debate)

Hardly anyone today, from anything but the extreme left to the far right, regards Socialism in the traditional sense of government ownership and operation of the means of production as either feasible or desirable. Those who profess “socialism” today mean by it a welfare state – its not the same thing, and to claim it is provides succour to the idiotic diehards trots like Bob Crow and Fred who think that true socialism is the way forward!

Don’t play the idiot yourself Ernie – you know that “Socialism” and “Socialist principles” are not the be all and end all of a social (small s) welfare system, and you also know damn well what Socialism, by definition, means, and that it is central to Marxist theory that Socialism is just an inherent transitional stage on the road to communism.

idiotic diehards trots like Bob Crow and Fred

You’ve got trots of the gob. I love the way you get all worked up. You ought to see someone about your issues. You never know it may help you.

People who can, pay into a system that benefits those who need.

Socialism.

Nowt wrong with that, in my onion. Only an idiotic diehard Thatcherite would argue against it being a fair and socially beneficial system, and pure dog eat dog survival of the fittest I’m alright Jack Capitalism is the way forward…

Only, thats not the definition of Socialism, is it Fred?

You’re talking bollox Zulu-Eleven, but I’m sure you know that, and you’re just trying to provoke a reaction.

Only, thats not the definition of Socialism, is it Fred?

Is there any depth of pettiness to which you won’t travel in order to argue with ernie & effin? I know what they mean. You do too. Everybody does. Stop **** up the thread. Katie Hopkins was on TV a while ago – you might be able to find it on iPlayer. Have a thomas-the-tank while you listen to her. It might relax you a bit.

Mission accomplished

🙂

This is brilliant.

[Munches peanut butter on toast]

Yes.

He just din’t want to admit it.
He didn’t murder a large portion of the population. No labour camps. No re-education. Not even covert surveillance. Clearly not a socialist.

Just ignore him now Ernie. It works for me. Otherwise he’ll just bang on and on and on and on and it gets very very boring. Argument’s done now anyway.

Flashy’s another one:

Mission accomplished

Don’t worry. You know we’ll be having lots of fun on here in the hopefully not-too-distant future. 😉

(Gives dancing shoes another polish. Puts champagne on ice….)

Tick tock, tick tock…

No – I’ll reiterate my original point and state that free education, healthcare and social welfare is NOT SOCIALIST – If you want to argue the point on this I really suggest you go and actually research socialism and the socialist system.

“People who can, pay into a system that benefits those who need” is not Socialism – Its just another way of looking after your ‘down and outs’ – and older than civilisation itself, in past times we did it through the church – “alms for the poor” The Hospital of St Cross was founded in the 1130´s by Bishop Henry of Blois for `thirteen poor men, feeble and so reduced in strength that they can scarcely or not at all support themselves without other aid’

Or are you now claiming that ‘Socialism’ was founded in the twelfth century by one of the richest and most powerful men in England?

Otherwise he’ll just bang on and on and on and on and it gets very very boring.

But you’re OK to do it?

Nooooo, don’t stop.

To be fair, I can see both sides, though the distinction between liberal and Socialist is not subtle, Socialism is entirely concerned with management of the economy whereas Liberalism is about open minded progressiveness and concern for human rights.

The NHS was the product of both but I think you will have to look pretty hard for a right winger who would actually want to abolish the NHS.

Though, P. J. O’Rourke once said, ‘If you think health care is expensive now, you wait till it’s free!’.

But you’re OK to do it?

Yes.

But the difference is, I’m actually interesting and everybody likes me. 🙂

The NHS was the product of both but I think you will have to look pretty hard for a right winger who would actually want to abolish the NHS.

I’m not so sure with what’s happening:

I am really hacked off with Labour for the ID card/war crap that Bliar gave us but I have to vote in an hour and I ain’t going for the Tories…

I think you will have to look pretty hard for a right winger who would actually want to abolish the NHS.

If Zulu’s watching, cover your eyes in case this causes spontaneous ejaculation.

Shesh… go away for a bike ride and Zulu steals my thunder!
Love how the Liberals who introduced these policies are suddenly socialists.They did it to ensure the newly enfranchised working class would vote for them….School meals act, introduced after 33% of recruits were unfit for service in the Boer war,thus making the government worried they would struggle to control the empire. Workman’s act,worried about the slowing of the UK manufacturing economy compared to upstarts like Germany.All pure dead socialist.
Ernie,so what you have said,quite correctly, is that the Liberals were not socialist enough,so the unions started their own socialist party? How does that help the argument that the new reforms were socialist?