Bassists of Singletrackworld….

@CountZero messaged re. bass.

Hi guys, could you give me some advice please. I’ve been using my bass through a Zoom B2.1u effects unit for at least 10years – for home practice and occasional gigging. I was thinking about replacing it, to get lower noise and some better real life usable tones, especially for gigs.

I have seen the Zoom B1 Four gets some good reviews, so is that a good choice or will it just give me more or less exactly the same tones with just the same level of noise? Or is there a clearly better option available now?

PS

someone who’s been interested in bass since discovering Yes and Chris Squire. . . in the 1970s

Me too.

After a bass hiatus of 15 years – this thread made me pick up a second hand Sire V3. Absolutely loving it! Youtube has been a revelation for learning – never had that back in my day!

@Jordan – dragged the guitar out of the loft, thankfully it was within arm’s reach, and only a couple of small items on top of it!

@CountZero just messaged agin.

Crickey! I do love the look of a Ricky.

@aldo56 30 years for me and I totally agree, so much is available online. Give BassBuzz a look, I’m four modules into Josh’s course now and I’m really enjoying it.

Yep, gotta love a Ricky. There’s an unmistakeable “punch” to the tone that you just don’t seem to get anywhere else.  Anything Geddy Lee played had to be good, and if you watch the original Undertones Teenage Kicks video you’ll see the bassist playing one. My bass teacher has/had one, and loved it, although he mostly plays a Jazz Pro 2 now. 

Only thing that raised my eyebrow was the huge metal cover on the bridge pickup, and I could never see the point. 

I very nearly bought a Ricky off a guy that was clearing out his recording studio at the start of lock down. If I had and then flipped it a couple of months later I would have properly cashed in. The person selling it was a dick though.

On the subject on Rickenbacker basses, there was a brand new Chris Squier signature model in the window of a guitar shop on the Charing Cross Road (on the corner of Manette St) sometime in the late 80s that they couldn’t give away. It was a few hundred quid and seemed to come down in price every time I walked past. I don’t think Mr Squier was too keen on them from what I’ve seen in interviews, but they go for a fair wedge nowadays. That would have been an investment if I’d had the money.

Ooooh, just got DHL tracking for my new bass. Should be here tomorrow!

What have you ordered (or have I missed that)?

“All the “too cool for school” kids laugh at folk who practise and learn scales… … …

Next, get a basic understanding of triads and arpeggios. They are the real bread and butter of bass playing, and are another keystone to your knowledge. Happily, arpeggios on a standard tuning bass are once again in fixed patterns, so once you’ve got the shape, you can transpose to any key. “

I’d say this is the wrong order to do things in on bass. If you want to get your head around harmonic theory for bass, start with learning your arpeggios – major, minor, 7, m7, maj7. etc. You can get a long way with the root on E or A-string versions of those five shapes.

If the bass was a lead/solo instrument (which it can be but it’s not best at) then the full scales would be the place to start but as it’s being the harmonic and rhythmic foundation 99.9% of the time, the simple three or four note arpeggios will get your fingers around many songs and jams and start teaching your ears what harmony sounds like.

Hi Jordan, I’ve taken a photo of the back of the Ricky, it was a bit awkward, ‘cos it’s rather shiny and there’s a lot of background reflection. There’s a couple of tiny little dings towards the bottom of the body, and some fine surface scratches, but that’s about it. One of the latches on the case is a bit rusty, but some work with some fine wire wool and WD40 will probably fetch that off – the latches all work, but the keys disappeared many years ago. There’s a little bit of pitting in the chrome fittings, and the main pickup cover has disappeared, but IIRC that was plastic, and hardly anyone uses them anyway?

I’m super excited to report that I have just become the proud owner of a Fender Flea Jazz Bass.

I’ve owned a couple of Jazz basses in the past, including a lovely Custom Shop ’60 Jazz, that I traded for a Custom Shop ’57 Precision.

I love the concentric pots.

I’m now GASing for a Vintera ii bass vi.

Anyone got one, or anything to say out them?

You can just pick out the marks on the edge of the window reflecting in the paint from behind me, really nothing significant, considering it  has to be forty-odd years old now – I honestly can’t remember when I bought it, it may be closer to fifty.

I’d say this is the wrong order to do things in on bass. If you want to get your head around harmonic theory for bass, start with learning your arpeggios – major, minor, 7, m7, maj7. etc. You can get a long way with the root on E or A-string versions of those five shapes.

Perhaps it shows how different brains learn differently, but for me the thing about learning scale patterns and intervals is that the degrees or steps of the scale are also the roots of all the diatonic triads in any given key.  A player with that knowledge and those intervals under their fingers can then simply jump to the next root in a progression. The M-m-m-M-M-m-Dim pattern of triads remains constant in any Major key, and as I already knew that from playing E and A barre chords on guitar, I simply use the simpler bass fretboard as a sort of theory abacus to shuffle through a chord progression.    It’s basically a longhand version of  Nashville numbering but for ME it sticks better because I’ve learnt the “why” rather than the more parrot fashion “how”.

A stage further on and when I’m given a score to read/learn,  I’ll kickstart myself by reading the key signature, then play the major scale a couple of times through to reinforce/double-check  any accidentals. As I said, it’s how my brain works best.

What have you ordered (or have I missed that)?

There’s a hint a few pages back, but I’ll post pics when it gets here!

@CountZero another message for you.

“Perhaps it shows how different brains learn differently…”

I think the main thing it shows is how far removed your (and my) understanding of theory is from where a beginner’s is! My wife has been learning piano recently and when you spend every day hanging around with musicians (ie everyone who works for me) it’s easy to forget how most people have zero understanding of music theory and plenty of people who actually play instruments (often well) also know very little theory. She’s learning some simple chords on piano and I’m looking at what she’s doing and saying “blah blah blah inversions, common notes, leading to this, resolving like that, etc etc” and she’s like “I have no idea what you’re saying, I’m just playing what it tells me to”.

I can’t read music (although I can read charts) and I spend most of my time writing my own music nowadays, and simple diatonic harmony just doesn’t work for what I’m writing because I use so much dissonance and chromaticism – I hunt down the notes that sound right in my head and sometimes I’ll say to the guys at work “what on earth have I done there?!” and it’s very very hard to break it down with simple theory. In my current band the harmony is all very open because we’re a vocals, bass and drums trio and although I play a lot of chords on the bass, as soon as the chords get more complex the fifths get left out, and without a fifth or another instrument playing a true bass note, it becomes difficult to define what the chord actually is! And with blues you can swap between minor thirds, major thirds and bend to the sharpened minor third and flat fives about, all of which are at odds with classical harmony – but sound good in the right place (and I’m not writing blues, it’s just had such a huge influence on popular music since ’50s).

But I do know that if you give me a jazz chart, those arpeggios plus some chromatic passing notes will get me through it, especially as with practice all the inversions and different positions up and down the neck are found and linked.

@chiefgrooveguru – reading your last post, you sound like you’ve got a prog 3-piece! 😁

I think the main thing it shows is how far removed your (and my) understanding of theory is from where a beginner’s is

To be fair the discussion was prompted by Clubby saying he was going back to revisit the basics because he wanted to learn theory as well as how to play.

Playing the bass doesn’t need to be complicated but learning theory can be. As I said I teach theory and reading music to older singers, and the very fundamentals of grade one is the Major scale. Understanding and automatically applying the necessary intervals to play/sing the pattern leads us onto understanding why and where we needs sharps or flats in a given key signature.

So that’s why I’d argue scales are important. Triads and arpeggios are crucial for bassists but unless you understand why you need to play, for example, a minor third in, say the Am chord (or the second, third sixth or seventh triad of any major key) you’ll spend all your time glued to the chord chart scratching your head.

I’m a musician, but only been into the bass for a year or so, and strangely despite a lifetime of reading music, it’s only those last few years since picking up the bass that I’ve dived quite as deep into theory. I sing with an ensemble and a choir where we’re expected to sight read on first run-through and often it’s just about looking for cues, counting and pitching the first note. Automatically recognising intervals and singing them leads you through a piece. So now with sight reading bass notation the first run through of a bass line becomes much quicker as you get to recognise arpeggios, runs, etc, and muscle memory chucks your fingers at the next note.

I envy your ability to improvise/compose.

To be fair the discussion was prompted by Clubby saying he was going back to revisit the basics because he wanted to learn theory as well as how to play.

I’ll get my coat. 🙂

Not sure I actually want to learn theory, but knowing a little has helped me grasp some basic patterns for chords and arpeggios I was struggling to memorise. Scapegoat was good enough to send me some basic scale and chord pattern exercises at the weekend. I was stuff that had been covered in some of the online courses I’ve been using but written out in a way that made more sense. Maybe it was just the fact that it was written out and nor just flashing up on a screen, but it certainly helped. I revisited a basic 12 bar blues progression I’d done before and suddenly the notes made sense. Before, I could play it from tab, but this time I understood why those notes worked. I’ve only been playing bass for 2 months and so very different to the linear nature of a piano keyboard. Back in school when I was played keyboard it was very much a case of learn a song, play a song, repeat. This time I’d like to try to be a little creative, which isn’t something that comes naturally to me. I know it’s very much early days  but I think a little theory is helping. I’ve also discovered that the notation in Yousician can be changed, so I’ve set it to also display the notes names along with the tab numbers to try and get my head around the fretboard.

Yay! 

Carbon fibre and LEDs – does that make it the ebike of the bass world?! 😉

That is….. a smidge flash.

I prefer the blue p bass on the rack 😍

Gotta say, that Squier(?) is really rather tasty, Scapegoat! Apart from the LED markers it’s very understated, and very much to my tastes. Just a pity I can’t play worth a damn! I do appreciate those who can, however. Jaco Pastorius, Greg Lake and Chris Squire being three of my favourites, although I often find myself listening to the bass rather than lead.

I prefer the blue p bass on the rack 😍

Nearly….it’s a Fender Jazz Pro ii . Absolutely fantastic bass, beautifully made and a real joy to play. 

The mystery object is a Status Graphite CW2 (Chris Wolstenholme signature).  The bassist in a local covers band had one and he let me have a noodle on it a year or so ago. It felt so good I started looking to buy one, but Rob at Status had stopped making them due to ill health.  The used market went silly so I kind of forgot the idea until I decided to have another look recently. He’s back in limited production again, so I decided it’s now or never, and my 60th birthday was all the excuse I needed. 

I’ve spent the last three days reworking my pedal board and dialling in various Muse tones (or trying to !!) , and yesterday fitted a Hipshot D-Tuner. 

 

Carbon fibre and LEDs – does that make it the ebike of the bass world?! 😉

18v EQ, with custom wound Status soapbars (CW Spacing)

Mids frequency and level control with a cut/boost switch.

It’s absolutely thunderous. I’ll do a vid and upload it after the weekend but it does what it says on the tin.

The LED’s are a ridiculous custom option, but if we’re emulating our heroes, my inner 12 yr old just had to have them…..

You can get 10 Squiers for the price of that Status would be my guess.

Fantastic looking thing, but not to my more traditional tastes.

I went to a recital recently, a chap from Rotherham used Status quite a lot. Brand new strings every time he plays Hysteria apparently.

Carbon fibre and LEDs – does that make it the ebike of the bass world?! 😉

I was thinking more Fast and Furious – Tokyo Drift!

Oh, be still, my beating heart! That Status is gorgeous! 🥰🫶🏻👌🏻

There isn’t anything about it I don’t like.

“The mystery object is a Status Graphite CW2 (Chris Wolstenholme signature)…”

Great to hear that Rob @ Status is better – I’ve always loved his innovative basses. My first bass was almost a Status Shark but for some (now baffling) reason I went with a Hohner Jack instead (I think the Jack was cheaper, both were secondhand from a proper old school guitar shop by Bristol Uni).

I bet it sounds great and it certainly looks mean! You’d have to pay a ton more to get close to that build quality and finish from one of the big manufacturers so although it’s far from a cheap bass I’d say it’s good value. There’s so many man-hours in making things that well!

Well, I’ve been playing around trying to get somewhere near the right tones for Muse’s Time Is Running Out, and here’s the result.  The Intro and other synthy bits are a bit of a cheat, as it’s pretty clear the raspy nasal synth layer is probably played on a keyboard on the studio version, but I’ve got as close as I can with an Electroharmonix Bass Mono Synth pedal then a Big Muff Deluxe. That’s underlayered with a clean bass tone, albeit with a lot of low end. I recorded the synth track first then simply played the bass under it.  I’ve got a new ABY switcher for playing both together, but the synth layer has virtually no attack which is a nightmare to replicate with a dry signal underneath.

Clean bit is obviously clean, then the phat is played with the bass EQ’d right up, the treble rolled off. That goes into an EHX Bass Big Muff pi then into a Boss BB1X bass driver.

🎩👏🏻 Well done sir! I’ll listen again with my ‘phones plugged into my iPad when I’ve got a chance, but that sounds damn good to me.

Have you had any sort of classical training? The reason I ask is you hold your thumb centred on the back of the neck – most bass and guitar players seem to hook their thumb over the top of the neck.

Beautiful instrument, too. 🥰

Have you had any sort of classical training? The reason I ask is you hold your thumb centred on the back of the neck

I decided to get some lessons a couple of years ago. My tutor insists on the thumb in the middle of the neck for mobility.

On the subject of classical fingering (……”ooer missus !”….. etc) how’s about a bit of Bach?  Invention Number 4 in D minor. Left hand on Bass, right hand thanks to some Youtuber and Chrome Audio capture extension. Oh and excuse the Oodie but it’s ‘kin freezing  here.

Rough and ready, but it’s a great exercise in scale patterns and finger per fret playing.

Things are starting to drop into place. Major chord and arpeggio pattern are pretty well stuck in my brain. Not exactly flying up and down the fretboard but a bit more fluid. Know the minor pattern but needs more work. Bought an old fashioned music book and I’ve been transcribing it into tab, which has helped with note reading and learning the fretboard.

When I’d started with Yousician there’d been  songs and exercises I’d never been able to perfect and got frustrated with. Went back to the start and was amazed how much I’ve progressed in just three months. Songs and segments I just couldn’t do are now easy. Currently ranked at level 4 but also making a good try at level 5 songs. Big fretboard jumps are still my downfall. Get on fine when the notes are in the same area low down but struggle to find notes that suddenly jump above the ninth fret.

Also been playing around with some software that analyses songs and give you a chord chart. Starting to figure out basic baselines on my own and it’s good practice for finding notes without the help of tab numbers.

Do have one question though. Bass is PJ and I tend to anchor my thumb on the neck pick up. Playing down towards the bridge pick feels weird and difficult. Is it worth trying to get to grips with that now or just concentrate on my current technique. Consistent alternate picking tends to be the first thing to go as I get flustered and I single pick through tough sections before resetting and get back in a rhythm.

Have been messing about with amp tone and pick up balance trying to fine my sound. Currently thinking I might be a P bass guy. Mainly using the neck  pick up but also like a small amount of bridge added for some songs.  Fender Rumble 25 amp with bass and miss set to 1 o’clock and treble at 12.

My tutor insists on the thumb in the middle of the neck for mobility.

Horses for courses. Some stuff is easier to play with the thumb covering the low E and even A string. Try playing Jimmy Lea’s Get Down Get With It bass line with a thumb over the top (easy) and in the middle of the neck. On guitare many Billy Gibons riffs are all but impossible without covering the E with your thumb.