barefoot running – the truth about that

i will DESTROY him with a 4minute mile. after all if i can handle a 1500meter all dayer i’m pretty sure i can whip past him on a pathetic mile.

I have found that my technique has improved the faster I have got. It certainly wasn’t the other way round. I do have different shoes with less cushioning for running sprint and threshold intervals. I also use them for anything off road.

I have found that my technique has improved the faster I have got

Its interesting that years ago when I trained a couple of times a week on the track if I missed a couple of weeks through illness or injury the first session back (as well as the vomiting :P) I felt like my arms were flailling all over the place. It comes back after a session or two, then its just the never ending pain to worry about!

I do find it easier in terms of body mechanics to run faster – it all seems to come together much better. However it’s harder on the lungs and legs of course. I do train for that of course, and I have become quicker.

wow,

Slow runs for me 9min/mile pace I can run happily on my heels, no pain no worries BTW Molly, I’m “slamming” my foot into the ground. I can heel strike right up to pretty much my faster runs 20 mins for a 5km, at which point I’m on my toes.

Slightly OT but check out the lovely colour schemes on next year’s new inov-8 models 😀

Jeezus, they’re more gopping than ever.

Mind you, I’ve never seen anyone who looks that shit, run that well. 🙂

BTW Molly, I’m “slamming” my foot into the ground

Well to be fair I can do that at 9m pace, but I don’t really want to run at that pace! What’s most important I’ve found is where your foot hits the ground. In heel striking I was putting my foot out in front, which was slowing me down. Now its always underneath me.

I like the top one (trailroc 155). Reminds me of the chewits and opal fruits I use to love as a kid.

Opps, meant to say im ‘not’ slamming my foot into the ground. Soz.

anyway maybe all a bit useless now anyway, as yesterday twisted my ankle on a curb, it’s come up like a balloon and it’s really sore 😥

Cant put any weight on it this morning, and nearly fell down the stairs…

Cant put any weight on it this morning, and nearly fell down the stairs…

I’m sure if you just think hard enough about why it’s hurting emsz, it’ll improve. In an instant.

Twisted ankle… bummer.. what shoes were you wearing? 😉

Re slamming things into the ground, I weigh a lot more than you.. I suspect this has something to do with how we start to run.

Was wearing flats doing sprints. My inov8 are v flexi but not very supportive. My own fault for no concentrating. It’s really sore, put ice on it last night but it’s still swollen.

I’m sure if you just think hard enough about why it’s hurting emsz, it’ll improve. In an instant

That’s a proper laugh out loud moment right there!

My comiserations emsz. Happens to us all.

In other news my foam roller does seem to be helping my knee after all, despite my scepticism that ITBS was the cause.

In other news my foam roller does seem to be helping my knee after all, despite my scepticism that ITBS was the cause.

Can i say i told ya so?! 😀

No, but you can say you offered me advice which, when taken with other people’s advice was deemed to be worth a £15 gamble.

You may feel proud 🙂

Mol – have you tried doing the knee exercises I mentioned to you a few months back??

Which ones? I forget.

ITB can be a bugger to shift. Not a big fan of stretching but post run I think it helps, Foam roller better and you can roll it so hard it brings tears to you eyes. 😀

Check your facebook Mol.

It didn’t bring tears to my eyes but it brought a LOT of foul language to my mouth.

I don’t think I have that bad of a case (if at all) because the symptoms I read about are all far worse. First roller session was agony, the second wasn’t so bad, now it’s alright. So hopefully I’ve caught it early if that’s what I have.

I did a different 5km and went as quickly as I could, without pain. It was a different route though.. but pretty slow nonetheless.

Yeti I don’t see any fb activity…

It’s where I originally msg’d you… I think. Have a look in the history.

Essentially though it’s all about correcting the imbalances that occur as a result of training hard on the bike and moving in a limited range of motion.

Step downs, step ups, side lunges, box jumps, ham-glute raises, calf raises, deep squats, hamstring curls with the gym ball, bridges, etc etc. High reps, low weight, win, win, win.

I did check the history, I don’t see anything.

I had been looking for exercises to cross over from cycling..

You must’ve ignored my advice and deleted it then!

Step ups and step downs are probably the most important.

Try focusing on hamstrings and glutes – they are likely to be weaker than quads from cycling. Plus step ups and downs too. Also one legged dips, in fact, do single leg stuff for pretty much everything otherwise you’ll never sort the imbalance as the stronger leg will end up doing all the work.

Also one legged dips, in fact, do single leg stuff for pretty much everything otherwise you’ll never sort the imbalance as the stronger leg will end up doing all the work.

Yeah this I have problems with. My left leg is pretty buggered an is mostly along for the ride rather than contributing much, but so far my attempts at one legged squats with it screw it up even more.

so far my attempts at one legged squats with it screw it up even more.

Try Bulgarian split squats with dumbbells : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CvEs-TOIKM

Cheers, I might give that a try. The extra stability of the other leg looks like it could help.

I don’t really recognise an imbalance between left and right legs. When I said imbalance I meant some muscles stronger than others, from cycling.

Too give some context of the imbalance, the year before last was the first in about 10 years when I could consistently raise or lower my bodyweight up a stair step using just my left leg.

Ian, just think about it as you’re doing it. If you concentrate hard enough, I reckon you’d see an improvement. Overnight.

I was just about to, but checked my training spreadsheet and noticed today’s a green day which means a concentration rest day.
Tomorrow’s a brown day – hangover recovery. Friday’s another rest day, followed by another brown. I guess I could try and double book a day, but I don’t want to risk overtraining whilst tapering.

Ian, just think about it as you’re doing it. If you concentrate hard enough, I reckon you’d see an improvement. Overnight.

If you don’t think about it hard enough then you might even see an improvement the night before you start to think about it.

I’m a semi-convert to barefoot type running, with some proper thin shoes on the way.

I find that I have 2 distinct running styles, my lazy one where it’s a mid-foot strike, but the heel does come down, and what feels like my more efficient one, where I have a longer stride, and flick off with my toes. The latter is faster and feels like it should use less energy, but requires concentration, works my shin muscles (don’t know what they’re called) more and when I’m tired I tend to revert back to my lazy slow style.

I have been making more of a concious effort to mid/forestrike recently, and certainly do more so in my lightweight race shoes (Nike Free 3.0’s) as opposed to my training shoes (Nike Structure 15’s).

However, during hill training this morning, it occurred to me that running down steepish hills it’s very difficult not to heel-strike, certainly if you want to control your speed rather than sprinting down out of control!

So what’s the deal with going down hills with proper thin barefoot shoes?

For reference I’ve only just started running again, and been training for about 2 months. I can currently do a 39 minute 10k and a 1:32 half, aiming for a sub 3 hour for my first full in August.

Cheers, Rich

I used to do everything in the Nike Free 3.0’s – you really don’t want to be heal striking in those as you will really do yourself a mischief. I ditched the 3.0’s as the V.4 is a bit crappy; breath ability issues and splitting after only 24 miles use (but that’s another story).

Running downhill you want to be on your toes, it is slower until you learn to let fly, but it’s what you need to be doing. Practice, practice, practice.

Oh and rich; if your doing those times in Free 3.0’s then you can assume a faster time with a different shoe. I’ve found them to be quite slow in comparison to firmer soled shoes of the same sort of genre (Saucony Kinvara’s). The v4’s have gone some way to address this with the new sole configuration but, as I mentioned before, the uppers don’t work with my flat feet and tear after very little use.

When descending try to imagine that your bounding a small log and want to get your foot as close as damn it under it on your push off; this way you extend your toes into the ground, dropping your heel at the very last moment as your body rolls over the foot position. I sometimes try to imagine being that lizard skipping over a pond……lightly, lightly does it. If you’re slapping down hard your doing it wrong.

Keep us posted on your marathon time; I’m about the same as you on the other distances but havn’t got a road marathon under my belt as yet.

Thanks for the pointers. The my recent PB’s (which I hope to better pretty shortly with continued training) have been in my Structure 15’s, I have only used the 3.0’s for a few training runs so far just to try them out.

I went into a decent running shop in Cardiff and said I wanted a training shoe and a race shoe (mainly for triathlons) and after analysis on the treadmill that’s what I left with. Interesting to hear that the 3.0s are slow, doesn’t sound ideal for a race shoe!

I’ll look into whether some Saucony Kinavaras would suit my feet/style when I’m next in the UK.

My first marathon is in India, Hyderabad, which is apparently about 10 minutes slower for a fast runner than somewhere like London, due to the hills, and it’ll be warm too. The general consensus is that a 3 hour here would be more like a 2:50 somewhere faster, so I might be being a little ambitious with my target!

Cheers, Rich

turboferret – Member

However, during hill training this morning, it occurred to me that running down steepish hills it’s very difficult not to heel-strike, certainly if you want to control your speed rather than sprinting down out of control!

So what’s the deal with going down hills with proper thin barefoot shoes?

i haven’t got a clue, when i’ve figured it out i’ll let you know…

my current technique – honed over several years of fell running (terrible results – really, don’t ask):

if it’s a gradual downslope – the kind of thing you could ride your bike up: i try and maintain a forefoot strike.

if it’s very steep – and i’m too scared to ‘let her go’: i land on my heels and it hurts a bit.
thankfully this type of slope doesn’t usually go on for very long, and the surface is often loose (grass, mud, etc.) which takes the edge off the impact.

wild arm flailing seems to help.

i should say that i’m really very bad at descending, everyone else just piles past me – going twice as fast with little apparent effort…

Down is definitely my strength in the fells and this seems to translate to downhill on the roads. I try to point my toes downhill and land on the balls of my feet. With a high cadence and relatively short stride length is doesn’t feel like I’m overextending or braking too much with my quads. Oh, and planning where to put my feet 3-4 steps in advance.

I tried Adizero Adios (haile’s shoes) but probably did too much too soon in them and ended up taking too long to recover from each session. I now run in the Adizero Bostons which I absolutely love.