Bad actors stoking hate again (Southport Stabbings)

Yes, but what was the actual question

At a guess it was “are you planning to set up new safe routes?”

Argee you are simply regurgitating Patel/Braverman/Sunak/Tory claims that there are safe routes for all asylum seekers and those who make the dangerous crossing, risking their lives, do so unnecessarily.

The inference is that they are not genuine asylum seekers. It’s bog standard right-wing rhetoric.

So this thread, like so many others, has become ‘that’ thread, courtesy of the usual suspects….

Anyway, back on topic… imagine that?… it seems like all the rioters are going for the ‘I was swept up in the moment’ defence.

Channel 4 news just showed some police bodycam footage of a nobhead who used that defence. The copper was in a police van while an angry Neanderthal tried repeatedly to stove in the window next to him with a big lump of concrete. He said, perfectly understandably, that he feared for his life

The baseball-capped bell end tried that defence and got 3 years when the judge dismissed his ‘swept up in the moment’ bollocks for what it is

I think we’ve all been ‘swept up in the moment’ on occasion without that involving trying to stove a police van in with half a concrete fence post

Anyway, back on topic… imagine that?…

You believe there is no connection between the mindless hate-fueled rioting and the right-wing rhetoric concerning immigration/small boats/asylum seekers?

Is that what you are imagining?

So this thread, like so many others, has become ‘that’ thread, courtesy of the usual suspects….

The last link I posted was actually about Yvette Cooper.

Do you want each cabinet member to have their own individual thread in case anyone says anything mildly critical about any of them and you get offended?

Seems like a lot of work for the rest of us but I know you view this place as your own personal sandpit so I guess we should all do our best to keep you happy.

I’m not quite sure how the thread I started calling out the toxic behaviour of the far right, Farage and their Tory enablers has suddenly become the fault of Starmer and his brand new government. Mind you it was all going to be Starmers fault even before his party was elected.

Please can we for once focus on the real perpetrators of the recent disgusting behaviour, Farage and the brain dead scum who trashed people’s homes and neighbourhoods for no reason at all.

I’m not quite sure how the thread I started calling out the toxic behaviour of the far right, Farage and their Tory enablers has suddenly become the fault of Starmer and his brand new government. Mind you it was all going to be Starmers fault even before his party was elected.

If you read every seventh word written then yes, I can see how you could come to the conclusion that that is the point we are trying to make.

Please can we for once focus on the real perpetrators of the recent disgusting behaviour, Farage and the brain dead scum who trashed people’s homes and neighbourhoods for no reason at all.

Yes, let’s relentlessly focus all our attention on these people.  There are, after all, the only ones who can provide any kind of leadership and effect any kind of change in society.

Starmer and Labour might as well be a bunch of house plants, so what they are saying and doing is irrelevant.

Argee you are simply regurgitating Patel/Braverman/Sunak/Tory claims that there are safe routes for all asylum seekers and those who make the dangerous crossing, risking their lives, do so unnecessarily.

It is a genuine question, i’m all for asylum and immigration, the UK needs it to thrive in the future, but as stated earlier, there are safe asylum routes, as there has always been, but what is Starmer against in whatever the question posed was?

I know a few specific answers, but not the specifics behind this one, what would be a viable new safe asylum route, and how would it work, is this what is being asked, i.e. a specific ‘why not do this’, or is it just a generic ‘do another safe route’ without any real information behind it?

there are safe asylum routes, as there has always been,

There aren’t, outside of a few very limited ones.

I’m not quite sure how the thread I started calling out the toxic behaviour of the far right, Farage and their Tory enablers has suddenly become the fault of Starmer and his brand new government

The same 5 or 6 members of the PFJ can (and do) turn a thread about literally anything into a tirade about Keir Starmer and how in his 6 weeks in power he has failed the nation

Cancer – Keir Starmers fault

Poverty – Keir Starmers fault

Next doors cat shitting in your garden… ?

You get the picture…

has suddenly become the fault of Starmer and his brand new government

What a daft comment. No one, no one at all, has claimed that the riots were Starmer’s “fault”. You are bemoaning the direction the thread has taken and you come out with silly comments which are hardly conducive to a sensible discussion.

The reality is that Starmer is now prime minister….. the buck stops with him. Personally, as I have repeatedly said, I think that he dealt with the riots reasonably well. However I also believe it was wrong of him not to highlight Farage’s culpability and holding him to account, particularly for his social media misinformation.

Yes that is a mild criticism of Starmer and yes I know that like a few others you believe no criticism should ever be directed at Starmer, because presumably he never says or ever does anything wrong. 

However not everyone adheres to this ridiculous and extraordinarily unhealthy attitude so maybe just try to deal with it?

And getting back to the fact that Starmer is now actually prime minister, did you actually read the link that I posted? Voters make it clear that they hold him responsible for whatever the ongoing situation is.

When the rioting was in full swing Starmer’s popularity fell and now that it has stopped and the rioters are recieving very significant sentences his popularity has shot up. It might be unfair to attach so much responsibility on the prime minister but that’s the way the cookie crumbles – the buck stops with him.

And it works both ways. Whilst the rioting might not have been his responsibility nor are the harsh sentences being passed by the courts, and yet he is still reaping the rewards of that.

Brucewee you’re just being ridiculous, what has happened is purely down to the culture wars stoked by the right. Trying to some how pin this on the current government reeks of desperation to justify your obvious dislike of the current Labour party and is rather sad.

Starmer is treading a fine line and I’m not sure what else he can do, he’s come down hard on the rioters, or at least the courts and police have and he’s supported them. Coming out now announcing anything seen as too immigrant friendly would have been pouring petrol on the fire and given the scum rioting justification j  their minds for their ‘protests’. We all know the answer to this is to properly reform the asylum system and improve people’s lives, neither of which are easy or quick. The vandalism of the previous government didn’t just stop at running the immigration service into the ground, they also tore up most of our established treaties and agreements with our partners through the travesty of Brexit.

Cancer – Keir Starmers fault

Poverty – Keir Starmers fault

Next doors cat shitting in your garden… ?

You get the picture…

Nope, I don’t get the picture. Obviously no one has ever said that Starmer is responsible for cancer  so are you saying that Starmer must never be criticised….is that the point your hyperbole is trying to make?

Edit: Btw you claimed to wanted to stick to the thread’s topic. Your last post did not contain one single reference to the subject matter. Is it a rule which you think other people should stick to but somehow it doesn’t apply to you?

However not everyone adheres to this ridiculous and extraordinarily unhealthy attitude so maybe just try to deal with it?

Your hubris is mind blowing.

Trying to some how pin this on the current government reeks of desperation to justify your obvious dislike of the current Labour party and is rather sad.

You know it’s possible to be responsible for something without it being your fault?

Labour and Starmer are now in charge. That means they are now responsible for fixing things. Things the had no part in causing.

If you didn’t want them to be responsible you probably shouldn’t have voted for them.

And yes, with responsibility comes scrutiny and sometimes criticism. It’s not a football team. You don’t mindlessly support them no matter what and anyone who isn’t with you is against you.

Well, you can, of course. Although I’d say that’s a fairly stupid way of looking at a government.

Bruce how about not focusing so much on justifying the right to be critical of the Prime Minister and instead focusing on the subject matter?

No matter how much the usual suspects complain Starmer will never be above criticism, so maybe just ignore their tedious and predictable moaning.

6 weeks in power and all the countries ills aren’t fixed yet

The bloody charlatan!

If only he had a beard and an allotment…

If only he had a beard and an allotment…

i don’t understand. Maybe if you posted a picture … ??

@tenburner

Everyone on this thread has you nailed for what you are.

You can’t undo that, ever.

Think on that for a while.

I would suggest a period of self-reflection. You’ll probably dismiss that out of hand. Whatever.

That’s the end of my interaction with you on this topic.

Fin.

6 weeks in power and all the countries ills aren’t fixed yet

TBF there are 195 countries and he’s only responsible for one of them.

So this thread, like so many others, has become ‘that’ thread, courtesy of the usual suspects….
…
The same 5 or 6 members of the PFJ can (and do) turn a thread about literally anything into a tirade about Keir Starmer

Ah, irony.

Do you want each cabinet member to have their own individual thread

I’m surprised there’s many Cabinet! Members! who don’t by now.

Everyone on this thread has you nailed for what you are.

If you two expended as much effort into explaining what you actually did mean when asked, as you are expending in squawking about how misunderstood you are, we’d have put this spat to bed several pages back.

As it stands you should probably be grateful that the Report links aren’t working.

I’m starting to think that anyone that posts in the political threads should have a mandatory shag before posting**.

** I shall have to provide a doctors note as my prosthetic cock is still… well, this pic says it better:

What ? Discontinued and put into a museum ?

Pakistan arrests man over Southport attack disinformation

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20718gdwj6o

I have heard that Starmer was in Pakistan when that was posted but did nothing to stop it.

He just shrugged and mumbled something about only 4 weeks in power.

Bruce how about not focusing so much on justifying the right to be critical of the Prime Minister and instead focusing on the subject matter?

Could do, although whenever someone posts something it tends to get drowned out in the cries of anguish over the victimisation of Starmer.

I first wrote about what I was worried about 3 or 4 days ago.  Then the Guardian columns started voicing the same concerns I have:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/21/theresa-may-yvette-cooper-migrant-labour-nigel-farage

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/19/riots-keir-starmer-racist-anti-immigration-narratives-truth

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/18/defending-working-class-interests-requires-more-than-simply-opposing-immigration

And then Amnesty International also said the same:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/aug/21/labour-immigration-government-deficit-uk-politics-live

It is essential to de-couple the link people have in their heads between immigrants (with little distinction made between illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, asylum seekers, and for some reason Muslims) and their standard of living being reduced.

Maybe we all have nothing better to do than sit around and hate Starmer, but the racists and the terminally ignorant don’t see to love him or Labour much either.  Why does Labour’s policy seem to be to appease them?

Why is the aim not to finally start getting get over this national malaise of the government blaming foreigners (and Muslims) for the fact people can’t get an appointment with their GP?  This actually started with Blair and was turned up to 11 once the turbo-headbanger Tories got the keys to the house.

But yeah, if you want to tell everyone that me, the Guardian, and Amnesty International we have nothing better to do but sit around hating Starmer all day then crack on.

The way I see it, the government, fans of organised immigration and wanting to be seen as effective and proactive, are putting things in place to expedite the processing of legal immigrants and the “return” of illegal immigrants. The articles you posted links to mostly criticise the rhetoric leaning towards the Return Flights stuff. I can see the sense in their policy, and agree that they should be emphasising the more positive aspects, but it doesn’t read to me like they are demonising all immigrants as a whole

If you two expended as much effort into explaining what you actually did mean when asked, as you are expending in squawking about how misunderstood you are, we’d have put this spat to bed several pages back.

As it stands you should probably be grateful that the Report links aren’t working.

Presumably that is not aimed at me?

Oh, on closer reading it is aimed at me in part.

Right-o.

I’m out.

We all know the answer to this is to properly reform the asylum system and improve people’s lives, neither of which are easy or quick. The vandalism of the previous government didn’t just stop at running the immigration service into the ground, they also tore up most of our established treaties and agreements with our partners through the travesty of Brexit.

All of this. It’s fair comment to discuss our expectations and hopes, but the tone has been very “blamey”. This is only one of several disasters the new government has inherited and has to resolve.

6 weeks in power and all the countries ills aren’t fixed yet

The bloody charlatan!

If only he had a beard and an allotment

I like a bit of humour in these threads if it helps, but sometimes just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Oh, on closer reading it is aimed at me in part.

FWIW I’m inclined to agree with you.  But should a moderator step in, I would expect the outcome would be either to give you both a few days off to calm down – ie, not picking sides – or to close the thread.  It doesn’t really matter who’s “right” in these instances, the mods have better things to do than wade back through half a dozen or more pages to see who started it.

Why does Labour’s policy seem to be to appease them?

Because for the folks that will have voted Labour; polling and focus groups show that generally immigration and migration aren’t high up on their list of worries, so they aren’t going to make changes to theses areas as nominally these folks aren’t bothered anyway. The folks that do worry about will want to see ‘strong’ measures; returning migrants that have failed processing, attracting well qualified immigrants, strengthening education and opportunities in local communities for existing populations , stopping the small boat crossing which Labour have said they’ll continue to do do, and shouldn’t be massively controversial anyway.

Plus the ONS think that overall, migration levels will fall in the next few years, I would imagine that Labour are betting that consequently it will fall lower and lower in the news.

We all know the answer to this is to properly reform the asylum system and improve people’s lives, neither of which are easy or quick. The vandalism of the previous government didn’t just stop at running the immigration service into the ground, they also tore up most of our established treaties and agreements with our partners through the travesty of Brexit.

I think if labour can sort out the hospital waiting list and access to doctors then people won’t be fixated on the boats/immigration thing that they were never interested in until it got forced down their throats by the usual suspects.

@dudeofdoom, yes, plus other measures like action to increase employment opportunities, adult education, better hosing and so on. There’s always going to be a subclass of racists for whom none of this will make a difference to their views and aren’t paying attention to traditional political messaging and/ore mainstream news anyway. It’s never been more easy to opt out of the same world that rest of us inhabit.

If the plan is to sort the backlog of asylum claimants, and in future have a fast and humane process in place for claims… than it will mean a rise in people who have their claim fail, despite the vast majority of claims being successful. So… there needs to be increased provision of staff and accommodation for dealing with those that fail in their asylum claim. It’s almost like joined up government…

better hosing

The standard of hoses hasn’t been the same since Henry VIII

FWIW I’m inclined to agree with you. But should a moderator step in, I would expect the outcome would be either to give you both a few days off to calm down – ie, not picking sides – or to close the thread. It doesn’t really matter who’s “right” in these instances, the mods have better things to do than wade back through half a dozen or more pages to see who started it.

Point taken.

I’m out of this one now in any case.