Bad actors stoking hate again (Southport Stabbings)

So therefore you obviously have no sympathy for JSO and you are perfectly happy to see them rot in jail, just as long as it doesn’t affect you.

Your right I have no sympbecause they are making progress harder

they are making progress harder

But you have already claimed that you don’t care about climate change.

Make your mind up.

I dont really care if it gets resolved or not. I will be long dead before it becomes a problem and we don’t have kids so no next generation for me to worry about

Very interesting. I know that you are a very poor quality troll but surely you’re aware of the impact of climate change to date, i.e. the current climatology and that future changes are pretty much baked-in. The only question left is how bad will this shit show be? The answer is a lot worse due to people with attitudes like yours.

Anyway:

What he should say is that people have been fed lies. That he is going to finally tell us the truth. That immigration is not responsible for the housing crisis, or for the one in the NHS. That asylum seekers being housed in a hotel is not the reason your high street is empty, your industries mothballed, your public spaces scorched, your councils bankrupt, and your community spaces shuttered. That we have laid at the door of immigrants the consequences of an entire economic model that has defunded the state and privileged big businesses and private capital, and concentrated asset accumulation in the south of the country with no foresight or plan. That immigration is not the biggest problem we face; that would be the disgrace of inequality and rising child poverty in the sixth wealthiest economy in the world. He will not say any of this, because Labour cannot be seen to threaten higher taxes or higher spending. Better to blame a lack of growth, and then be muzzled by the implicit cosigning of austerity when immigration is blamed for its consequences.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/19/riots-keir-starmer-racist-anti-immigration-narratives-truth

Many on here including me were concerned that Starmer wasn’t going to tackle the Tory rhetoric after Labour won.  We were constantly told the only thing that mattered was to ‘Get the Tories Out.’  The irony that the previous Tory landslide was won on the slogan and the idea that the most important thing was to, ‘Get Brexit Done’ was entirely lost.

Well, they Got the Tories Out and yet we’re left with the exact same problems as after the Tory landslide.  Pithy slogans are fine but only if they can be followed up with actions. And to take meaningful actions you need an objective and a plan.

We’re still waiting for Starmer to step up.  We could be waiting a long time because, of course, he never said he was going to step up during the campaign so we can’t exactly complain he isn’t delivering on his promises.

but only if they can be followed up with actions.

The actions to improve the lives of the minority of folks who came out to riot are the work of generations. Improving their education, their accommodation, their skills and their employment prospects is not going to the work of ten minutes and announced to a fan fare. I don’t disagree with much of that opnion peice (I read it also) but telling folks that they believe a set of lies, and here’s ‘a truth’ told to them by the same set of folks that occupy the same strata in the country isn’t going to change a thing, they’re not paying attention to it.

We’re still waiting for Starmer to step up.

Erm, he’s only been in power for 6 weeks. What exactly are you expecting to happen in that time?

He probably still hasn’t found the keys to the gin cupboard at No.10

Yep, nobody is justify JSO and their activities.

Speak for yourself. I fully support JSO’s actions and think their protests are fully justified. Disruption to people’s lives might be annoying, perhaps even dangerous sometimes but it’s nothing compared to the danger and disruption future generations will suffer from climate change. That’s why they do what they do, to wake people up to what they refuse to acknowledge and take responsibility for. The problem we have today is that the general population either think climate change isn’t as big a problem as they were first told, or that it’s all in hand and being resolved by renewable power and more recycling etc. Neither are true and JSO are doing more than many others to hammer that message home in the most direct (and peaceful) way they can.

Erm, he’s only been in power for 6 weeks. What exactly are you expecting to happen in that time?

This.

Am I optimistic?  Not especially.  But it seems somewhat unfair to expect anyone to reverse umpteen years of Tory vandalism in a month and a half.

Erm, he’s only been in power for 6 weeks. What exactly are you expecting to happen in that time?

This is for the UK government thread but since the question has been asked how about “a clear vision”?

After all apparently the majority of voters worryingly believe that the UK is heading in the wrong direction:

Of those polled, 22% said that they think things in Britain are heading in the right direction, 52% in the wrong direction and 19% neither.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-popularity-poll-labour-government-angela-rayner-b1177153.html

And back on topic, with the exception of not pointing an accusing finger at Farage and shining a spotlight on his culpability I thought that Starmer dealt with the far-right riots fairly well. Unfortunately according to opinion polls the voting public don’t agree, although they support the harsh sentences imposed on the rioters by a large majority.

I suspect that Starmer’s problem, with respect to the public being unimpressed with his performance during the rioting, is probably fundamentally down to the fact that he so desperately lacks any charisma.

A more charismatic Prime Minister might have judged the mood of the nation and have gone to the scene of a particularly violent riot and made a rousing speech denouncing hatred and division and loudly proclaimed their commitment to democracy and the rights of all individuals to live free from fear, followed by one-to-one interactions with local residents who had been affected.

But he isn’t known for his deep commitments and passionate speeches.

That’s not very fair, he’s a dull, logic-driven, prosecutor. He’s not Obama and to be candid we went down the popular orator route and look what happened.

Judge him in 6 months, not 6 weeks. If things haven’t started to change then you can throw mud. You don’t need charisma to be a good leader.

Wait 6 months to criticise him? Like the voting public I will judge him on how he performs on a day-to-day basis. As I said I with the exception of the Farage issue I thought that he dealt with the riots fairly well, that doesn’t appear to be the majority view of the electorate though.

And pollsters fully recognise that Starmer is still enjoying the honeymoon period which all new PMs can expect btw. I am not sure that it will extend for 6 months though. I guess it will depend on how he deals with inevitable crisis.

I suspect that Starmer’s problem, with respect to the public being unimpressed with his performance during the rioting, is probably fundamentally down to the fact that he so desperately lacks any charisma.

Nah, that’s the sort of bobbins Sunak was desperately trying to sell in June. Biggest problem was the right’s shiny new narrative of “2 tier policing”. Gained a load of traction, that has.

I find myself agreeing with ernie on Starmer’s performance re the far right thug riots.

I would have preferred him to pin this on Fartage more firmly – the right is split at the moment – the opportunity is there to clearly show that there is an ‘acceptable’ right wing and an unacceptable one. Not just a continuum.

But overall the approach of Starmer and Cooper seems to have stopped the actual rioting as promptly as can be reasonably expected.

That’s not very fair, he’s a dull, logic-driven, prosecutor.

Well whether he likes it or not he’s PM and PMs are expected to visit places and speak to the public from time to time, especially at times of crisis and tragedy as in this case. If he doesn’t do that then he’ll rightly be labelled as aloof, out of touch, uncaring and all the other things which will damage his chances at the next election. The UK electorate do not like aloof technocrats, they want a visible, inspiring and empathetic leader who can connect with normal people.

I think many agree he/they dealt with the riots themselves pretty well.  This time.

However, the underlying cause of the riots remain and that has to be dealt with because it is going to manifest itself again.  Not necessarily as riots, but perhaps in another way that doesn’t end up with public opinion going against the perpetrators.

He needs to do something to start to deal with the decades of lies that have somehow managed to successfully lump illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and legal immigration into a single bag that the right can then say is what is making people poor.

He needs to do something to start to deal with the decades of lies that have somehow managed to successfully lump illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and legal immigration into a single bag that the right can then say is what is making people poor.

Agreed. Stopping people chucking bricks and bottles needs doing first. But it is not all that needs doing.

You can reasonably criticise day to day based on what he (Starmer) says and does. I will do the same, I didn’t vote for him, disagree with some of his plans and promises.

But you can’t reasonably criticise him day to day on how things are now. That’s what was left over from a decade of increasingly spiteful vandalism and division, and it would take a while to turn round however perfect he was.

My apologies, I came to the wrong conclusion based on the fact that Starmer’s popularity fell during the rioting. I assumed that it was due to his handling of the crisis (perhaps his personal performance did effect that?) but the public approved of the Labour government’s handling of the crisis

Public approves response to riots but Starmer’s appeal fades, new poll shows

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/aug/18/public-approves-response-to-riots-but-starmers-appeal-fades-new-poll-shows

In terms of the severity of the response, 44% think the government has reacted proportionately to the outbreaks of violence and unrest and 26% think it didn’t go far enough. Only 18% believed ministers had overreacted. There was a similar view on the sentences handed out, with some 70% thinking they were either about right or not harsh enough.

But you can’t reasonably criticise him day to day on how things are now.

He can’t reasonably be expected to have done anything to prevent these riots but he can be criticised for not doing anything to prevent the next crisis that is going to arise because of the conditions and the misapprehensions many people are living under.

I would have preferred him to pin this on Farage more firmly

An open goal which should have been ruthlessly exploited. Opportunities like that don’t come very often

Half of voters think Reform leader Nigel Farage is responsible for riots, poll reveals

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-uk-riots-poll-b2598252.html

The ground was very fertile and with precision attacks more damage could have been inflicted on Farage

Public approves response to riots but Starmer’s appeal fades, new poll shows

Yes Starmer’s approval rating is -7% which puts him at the top of this lot.

Yes he’s more popular than Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson, who would have thought it?

Public approves response to riots but Starmer’s appeal fades, new poll shows

And today’s other big news is that water doesn’t flow uphill

It was obvious that Starmer’s appeal would fade?

New PMs have a honeymoon period until “stuff” happens

You know this – stop being a smart arse as usual

Ah, we are descending into insults now. Well it was pleasant for a while.

And no, I hadn’t realise that Starmer’s honeymoon period was already over, nothing smartarse about that

After all apparently the majority of voters worryingly believe that the UK is heading in the wrong direction:

I believe that the UK is heading in the wrong direction. I also believe – as do people in that poll you linked to (for what vox pops are worth, which is jeff all until the week before an election) – that we’re better off than we were. I refer readers again to Douglas Adams’ “lizard” quote.

I suspect that Starmer’s problem… is probably fundamentally down to the fact that he so desperately lacks any charisma.

Nail on the head. He makes John Major look like John Noakes.

I don’t think you need charisma to tell people what the problem is and what you plan to do about it.

Obviously having charisma helps in delivering the message but if Labour are going to wait until Starmer develops a personality before they try to articulate a message I think people better start mentally preparing themselves for a Tory government now.

I know that you are a very poor quality troll but surely you’re aware of the impact of climate change to date, i.e. the current climatology and that future changes are pretty much baked-in. The only question left is how bad will this shit show be? The answer is a lot worse due to people with attitudes like yours.

If having a differ opinion to yours is trolling the I plead guilty. Having studied climate change for a few years I am very aware of the problem and the damage we, as a species, are causing to our planet. I’m also very aware that to stop it getting worse is going to require supranational cooperation d action. Our ability as citizens to influence is virtually zero. Even if we had a fully committed U.K. government it still won’t make any difference without a lot of international cooperation and I do t see that happening soon.  Of people want to protest peacefully and legally about it then fine, but let’s not kid ourselves they  are going to make any positive  difference to the outcome

It’s the same old, same old on here, people who don’t like Starmer and the current Labour Party moaning that they aren’t running the country the way they want them too, and using every avenue to blame them for whatever goes wrong.

Having studied climate change for a few years

Yet you appear to be embracing SSP5.85 rather than mitigating it?

 perhaps even dangerous sometimes but it’s nothing compared to the danger and disruption future generations will suffer from climate change

I don’t think Hallam and JSO is the cine qua non of climate change activists in the way that during his trial he tried to present himself as. I think if anything they just get in the way, they offer no solutions they just want folks to know very badly that they think climate change is dangerous.

“Climate change may kill people, and to prove it we’re going to stage a stunt that may kill people”. I don’t think that quite the message they’re going for if I’m honest. If if it is, and the message is in fact; “We want you to pay attention to climate change and in order to do that we’re going to stage events and we decided we’re prepared for people to die” . 5 years isn’t **** long enough.

It’s the same old, same old on here

Yup, and you predictably turn up for the same old same old.

I can’t see much “moaning” of Starmer on this thread beyond mild criticism that he didn’t focus on Farage’s obvious contributions to the misinformation behind the riots.

In fact the consensus appears to be that Starmer dealt with the crisis created by the riots fairly well.

But don’t let that stop you regurgitating same old same old narrative that you always do.

He needs to do something to start to deal with the decades of lies that have somehow managed to successfully lump illegal immigration, asylum seekers, and legal immigration into a single bag that the right can then say is what is making people poor.

He’s been PM for 6 weeks, Parliament’s been in recess for most of that,not yet had a Budget to establish spending priorities.

It’s not quite like rubbing a lamp and getting three wishes.

May kill people

If the drivers in the jams had the French/German reflex of making a corridor for emergency vehicles no lives would have been threatened.

I was on the A36 recently which stopped due to an accident which showed on Maps in minutes. Two cars moved to leave a corridor, me and another car on French plates. I heard sirens and moved as far over as possible, so did the other French car. The other drivers only reacted as the ambulance tried to push through.

However, I’ve been mightily impressed with the great British public who have done more to clear the streets of fascists than the government. Starmer – unimpressed, whoevet said he should have been taking on Farrage directly I agree with.

“Climate change may kill people, and to prove it we’re going to stage a stunt that may kill people”. I don’t think that quite the message they’re going for if I’m honest. If if it is, and the message is in fact; “We want you to pay attention to climate change and in order to do that we’re going to stage events and we decided we’re prepared for people to die” .

You’re just making stuff up. Do give it a rest.

If having a differ opinion to yours is trolling the I plead guilty

you’ve told me in person in the past that you enjoy trolling people online!

He’s been PM for 6 weeks, Parliament’s been in recess for most of that,not yet had a Budget to establish spending priorities.

It’s not quite like rubbing a lamp and getting three wishes.

I keep seeing this 6 weeks excuse.

If he genuinely had no idea of the issues facing the UK and had no ideas on how to start fixing them prior to taking on the job then the UK probably voted the wrong person into office.

But OK, let’s say he’s just started and needs time to find his feet.  How long before we are allowed to start pointing out his shortcomings?  6 months?  2 years? 4 years?

Yet you appear to be embracing SSP5.85 rather than mitigating it?

No I’m just realistic about how change will happen, how slow it will be be and how little a single country can do let alone an individual or group of individuals.

you’ve told me in person in the past that you enjoy trolling people online!

I’m not sure we have ever met so I’m not sure when we had that conversation. Again if you define trolling as having a different opinion on a subject then there are lots of trolls in your world