Bad actors stoking hate again (Southport Stabbings)

Almost immediately after the deadly stabbing attack in Southport, baseless rumours began spreading online.

While police and emergency services were still responding to the attack, a widely shared LinkedIn post claimed without evidence that “a migrant” was responsible.

But the most viral source of rumours so far has been a report published on an obscure US-based website which claims to cover “breaking news”.

The report falsely claims that that the 17-year old suspect is an “asylum seeker” named “Ali Al-Shakati”, who “arrived in the UK by boat last year”.

Merseyside Police has confirmed that the suspect was born in Cardiff, and has yet to identify the 17-year-old.

The report also adds that the suspect was “on the MI6 watch list”, despite the fact that it is MI5, not MI6, that deals with domestic counter-terrorism cases.

The name “Ali Al-Shakati” has since been widely shared online in posts viewed by millions.

Some other outlets, including Russia’s RT news channel, have also reported this name, citing the US-based website.

Other variations of the report, including the claim that the suspect was a “Channel migrant”, have also been widely circulated.

From the BBC regarding the horrific stabbing on young girls at a dance class yesterday. I’m not sure the BBC should publishing this either but maybe it will help counter some of the vicious claims being made.

BBC News Feed

We really need some social media laws to prosecute twitter and facebook et al for allowing the dissemination of such disinformation. I know many will scream about freedom of speech but it’s the only solution because it does horrific damage. I’ve already had one mate repeating the supposed ‘facts’ from twitter who I’ve had to put right and seen others on local facebook groups having rants about immigrants in relation to it.

Do you think these sites just make up a story to fit a headline they’ve heard or is someone feeding them this shite? Perhaps they heard it from RT and filled in more gaps?

There are some very strange people out there, both on line and in the real world who have somehow built up a very distorted vision of the world.

I find it quite sad that this has been on the forefront of a lot peoples minds – religious persuasion. There is absolutely no doubt that certain ‘communities’ do have a problem with knife crime and with radicalisation (seemingly now branded as mental health problems).

I have noticed that on SM there seems to be very little empathy or sympathy for the families that were innocently caught up with some lunatic who deliberately targeted easy pickings. So sad to read about it all. Didn’t something similar happen last year in Annecy?

I’d argue that there are some very clever, manipulative people preying on some less intelligent, frustrated, often scared people.

The internet is a prime example of something promising so much, but being so insidious in action.

It’ll still play out like this over the coming weeks, 17 year old of Rwandan parents, you can see the usual suspects lining up, i’ll wait for the actual information, but it is an absolutely horrific attack, having an 8 year old who does summer clubs just now, i won’t be alone in following this one.

As for the BBC, they have published it as not verified and posted the police’s statement regarding this as being false information, so can’t see any issues, probably best to be done to have it out on a real website to counter the ‘fake’ news.

It’s an absolute mess on X, things like this remind me of why I rarely go on there.

SM needs to be stamped on hard, it isn’t capable of self regulation.

**************************

Utter tragedy, a third child has just succumbed to her(?) injuries.

I’d argue that there are some very clever, manipulative people preying on some less intelligent, frustrated, often scared people.

What’s more scary is that they are also preying, and sometimes quite successfully, on quite intelligent, comfortable and confident people, who then go on and spread the hatred they are fed.

I have noticed that on SM there seems to be very little empathy or sympathy for the families that were innocently caught up with some lunatic who deliberately targeted easy pickings.

I’m fairness, there is a genuine outpouring of empathy and sympathy on X… it’s just drowned out to a degree by people trying to promote their chosen bias on both sides.

Doesn’t repeating these rumours just boost their Google stats?

is that helpful ?

Agree. I think posting it on here amplifies it’s reach.

We really need some social media laws to prosecute twitter and facebook et al for allowing the dissemination of such disinformation.

We already have such laws.  From another STW thread just this morning:

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/24481949.ramsbottom-man-sentenced-sharing-offensive-posts-online/

The issue here isn’t social media, it’s media in general.

I know many will scream about freedom of speech

Let them.

Freedom of speech flows in both directions and doesn’t extend to stirring up terrorism.

Do you think these sites just make up a story to fit a headline they’ve heard or is someone feeding them this shite?

Putins propaganda machine and the “Bannon network” both do this all the time, it is just creating division and hate to divide and rule. The Czech were doing some good highlighting of this kind of misinformation and as far as I know were the only country that are even highlighting this propaganda to their citizens. Unfortunately while politicians in power are using the lies to further themselves then it will not be dealt with properly.

Just FYI, Google Translate says Ali Al Shakati means “I have to go to my apartment”.

We already have such laws.

Well they’re obviously not working. They need to be threatened with multi-billion dollar fines or complete shutdown if they fail to remove posts stoking hatred and social division. I’m as liberal as they come on issues around freedom of speech but on this issue we need some good old-fashioned censorship.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/16/20991816/impeachment-trial-trump-bannon-misinformation

https://svidomi.in.ua/en/page/the-czech-republic-has-exposed-a-propaganda-network-in-the-eu-called-voice-of-europe-vladimir-putins-confidant-viktor-medvedchuk-is-involved-in-it

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/rjqswxh4r

Would be nice if this thread had focused on 3 young girls, all under 10, killed in an absolutely horrific attack, and 9 others in critical condition, those parents of the children who have died must be going through hell, start of the summer holidays, send your kid off to a summer camp event and they never come home, should be the happiest times of their lives, and now, i don’t even have a guess on how much pain and misery is running through their heads.

Anyway, i’ll let you guys get back to caring more about daft posts and the likes that have been around since the internet was invented.

Just FYI, Google Translate says Ali Al Shakati means “I have to go to my apartment”.

I think that’s the literal version, can also be interpreted as ‘I’m tweeting from my Mum’s basement’

Seriously, the platforms can hide behind free speech but I feel there have to be repercussions, on the platforms but also on the people that retweet this stuff. I know technically you can’t slander ‘individuals unknown’ but it’s barely dogwhistle level opacity, what the intent is here and it is slandering whole communities.

My kids have done these classes in the past, my son’s at rehearsals all this week, my daughter now teaches classes at the weekends. The thought of an attacker in any of them just chills my blood, I can’t imagine how these parents feel right now.

Would be nice if this thread had focused on 3 young girls, all under 10, killed in an absolutely horrific attack, and 9 others in critical condition, those parents of the children who have died must be going through hell, start of the summer holidays, send your kid off to a summer camp event and they never come home, should be the happiest times of their lives, and now, i don’t even have a guess on how much pain and misery is running through their heads.

Anyway, i’ll let you guys get back to caring more about daft posts and the likes that have been around since the internet was invented.

bit of a strawman there , and pretty nasty to insinuate people dont care about the deaths

bit of a strawman there , and pretty nasty to insinuate people dont care about the deaths

More a case of folk focusing on some internet garbage by the usual extremists, rather than even going into any detail of the attack

Would be nice if this thread had focused on 3 young girls, all under 10, killed in an absolutely horrific attack, and 9 others in critical condition, those parents of the children who have died must be going through hell

There isn’t a person on this forum of any persuasion that doesn’t think the same as I posted earlier, it’s a ***** tragedy. To see it being used to further instill hated just compounds it further.

More a case of folk focusing on some internet garbage by the usual extremists, rather than even going into any detail of the attack

what details do you want?

because as a dad with an 8 year old daughter who sings along to Taylor swift, theres no detail of it I want to think about TBH

As others have said I didn’t think we needed to dwell on the horror of what happened, we have no information on motivation so best not to speculate. I started the thread because the BBC was calling out the misinformation that was being furiously pumped into the internet which horrific as the incident is I thought was a bigger issue. I was also a bit surprised to see the BBC come off the fence for one.

Well they’re obviously not working. They need to be threatened with multi-billion dollar fines or complete shutdown if they fail to remove posts stoking hatred and social division.

Well, then you’re also banning television, newspapers and communication in general.

I’m as liberal as they come

No you aren’t.

No you aren’t.

Whatever. Can’t be arsed having an argument off the back of this and you’re clearly looking for one.

There is little to no chance of effective regulation anytime soon as that would need a worldwide collective effort and those that are using SM to manipulate already have too much power.

I think this is a very worthwhile thread.  As I don’t go to the online places where this bollocks is paraded, I was unaware it was an issue.  At least I am now forewarned so when a nobhead in the pub or similar, pipes up I’m in a position to counter with some facts.

This type of misinformation is on all sides and there are plenty of threads on here where users will quote any old dubious source if it backs up their prejudice.  For instance – a journalist on Twitter – has been used a few times.  Having an account on a social media platform which has long since abandoned any standards, and is run by Elon Musk, isn’t a good reason to be treated as reliable.  No matter how much it reinforces your personal world view.

It is also not fair to suggest anyone commenting on this doesn’t care about the incident itself.  Whilst we don’t know what is behind this attack, many similar have been fuelled by lies and hate spread across the Internet, so identifying that misinformation is being spread in this case is perfectly legitimate.

There’s nothing to say about the facts behind the attack as so little is known, or at least able to be shared, so I don’t have a problem with flagging obvious lies being shared to stoke up division and hatred.

Later this afternoon my 17 year old will be coaching junior gymnasts at her club, before training for a couple of hours with her squad. This kind of horrific attack makes you see things in a different context, especially as we are involved with other youth groups as well.

But what can be done? Horrific and tragic as it is, this is an incredibly rare event. Do we turn every dance school, village hall and Scout hut into a fortress and lock kids inside? Or do we hope that from this tragedy we learn to address the root causes of why these things (rarely) happen, whether that’s family issues, mental health or social services failures or whatever, and as a society decide its better to invest in prevention, rather than leave communities to invest in funerals and memorials?

Very well put MCTD.

But what can be done? Horrific and tragic as it is, this is an incredibly rare event. Do we turn every dance school, village hall and Scout hut into a fortress and lock kids inside? Or do we hope that from this tragedy we learn to address the root causes of why these things (rarely) happen, whether that’s family issues, mental health or social services failures or whatever, and as a society decide its better to invest in prevention, rather than leave communities to invest in funerals and memorials?

Well, practically speaking, seeing as this:

Do we turn every dance school, village hall and Scout hut into a fortress and lock kids inside?

is not possible and this:

Or do we hope that from this tragedy we learn …

is, sadly, laughably optimistic, I think that only leaves one solution:

We go about our lives as usual, but allow adults to arm themselves with guns. Just in case, for self defence.

That may sound flippant but that’s not the intention, just what came up while I was thinking about it. It’s easy to see how people might start to think that kind of thing for real, and this only goes to bad places, as we might see from *ahem* certain other countries.

As for what really to do, learning as you say would be great, but how likely is ‘society’ to actually do it?

We go about our lives as usual, but allow adults to arm themselves with guns.

That would likely have ensured this guy didn’t have a knife but a gun to go on the attack with. It’s an escalation, the last thing we need.

Anyway, i’ll let you guys get back to caring more about daft posts and the likes that have been around since the internet was invented.

Really?, what you want is a virtual flower laying? – personally I think it’s of more importance to highlight the misinformation networks and out them.

That would likely have ensured this guy didn’t have a knife but a gun to go on the attack with. It’s an escalation, the last thing we need.

Exactly!

I just found the thought process interesting and it gave a (little) bit of insight on how this way of thinking starts.

Exactly!

I just found the thought process interesting and it gave a (little) bit of insight on how this way of thinking starts.

Apologies if I misinterpreted your post mate, wasnt intentional. I should slow my reading down!

Tragic, on so many levels. What sort of life has some had to have led to get to a point where this is a choice?

I’m not a parent, so I can’t event begin to imagine the emotional torture of losing a child in such a way, or supporting one who has been attacked in such a brutal way.

In a week or two this will drift out of the news cycle but there will be people still wrestling with the enormity of this moment for the rest of their lives. Maybe if the talking heads on SM bore that in mind they might consider the impact of their words.

Tragedy doesn’t fully capture the depth of this incident in the slightest.

Do we turn every dance school, village hall and Scout hut into a fortress and lock kids inside?

It doesnt have to be a fortress. Our scout hall had a simple bolt on the door and a doorbell. Occasionally you’d get a parent turn up early, and you’d just go out, see who it was through the glass screen and let them in.

There’s a really good reason it’s called Twatter

We go about our lives as usual, but allow adults to arm themselves with guns. Just in case, for self defence.

This is a joke right? Please tell me this was a joke.

It doesnt have to be a fortress. Our scout hall had a simple bolt on the door and a doorbell. Occasionally you’d get a parent turn up early, and you’d just go out, see who it was through the glass screen and let them in.

I suspect that will be one of the likely consequences of yesterday. For a tiny level of inconvenience and cost I should imagine it will become the norm.

What sort of life has some had to have led to get to a point where this is a choice?

Captures my thoughts on the attacker perfectly. Utter tragedy.

This is a joke right? Please tell me this was a joke.

Not a joke. Not entirely serious either! I just found myself starting to think towards that conclusion in response to MCTD’s post and found it interesting. I can see how people start that way and then get deluded.