B+… Anyone else just find it disappointing and pointless?

Just done my first proper rides on my new B+ setup and main impression is, this is pointless. (3.0 Nic and Ron on i35s, in a 29er Remedy). I don’t see what it’s doing that isn’t better with a normal 29er tyre… They’re not any grippier than an equivalently draggy 29er tyreset and If I drop the pressure enough to get any noteworthy squish, they smear about horribly in corners. I don’t blame the Ron for lacking any grip, because I chose it for speed, but it’s not really all that fast. But most of all, it’s just not interesting. It just feels like a normal tyre only worse.

There was a brief moment when they felt interesting, doing a slippy offpiste, they required a lot of care and a slower more involved approach- but then I thought, this’d be better on my 2.35 minions and more interesting on my fatbike.

Not quite done yet but I’m really surprised not so much by how ungood it is, but by how uninteresting it is. I was never expecting high performance, I got these just for variety and difference and there just isn’t that much of it. Anyone else?

I had a demo at Afan on a Cotic Rocket with B+ and I thought it was great fun. Great grip going up, and bouncing around like a space hopper on the way down. I loved it!

I would have bought it but I figured my lack of skill and aging body would land me in casualty enough to stretch even the limits of the extra £350M a week the NHS will be getting from leaving the EU.

It’s tyres. How “interesting” can you make them? Perhaps they could build in a random self destruct mechanism or cut the tread so it plays “Yankee Doodle Dandy ” when cycling on tarmac?

Maybe you were just on the wrong type of ride.

Horses for courses I guess. I find my Primal Plus on 3.0″ Bridgers almost perfect for my local riding Spring to Autumn. Winter is fatty territory though. It’s true it doesn’t have a huge amount more grip than the 456 it replaced however. I do like the extra squidge though and don’t find it squirms too much in the corners.

So less B+ and more of a C- ?

Though my bike has the ability to run B+ wheels i’ve no interest in trying them. As i suspected (and you found out) running soft tyres just feels crap. Anything less than mid 20s and tyres feel awful ime. I’m sure they will suit some riders/terrain but just not for me.

I think you are probably too fast/gnarly/whatever for them. Not a pisstake, I think after a certain ability level any advantages or fun elements of plus will flip around and be a hindrance. I don’t have that problem (un)fortunately therefore plus tyres are good for me.

Just you wait until you destroy the tyres riding over a pebble, then you’ll really question what you spent the money for!

scotroutes – Member

It’s tyres. How “interesting” can you make them?

Tyres are interesting! They can ruin any bike, they can keep you upright or not… And you can measure them and make a spreadsheet and make hilarious jokes about maxxis rubber rulers!1!!

And fatbike tyres are definitely interesting, they change how you ride. I was hoping for a bit more of that, after all that’s what everyone keeps banging on about when they talk about plus tyres. But it’s just not very present.

imnotverygood – Member

So less B+ and more of a C- ?

Until I come to sell them, at which point they will be the best thing since sliced bread 😆

I don’t think the i35 rims will be helping matters with a 3.0in tyre.

Maybe you need to take it where you ride fat and then compare. Personally I find B+ to be a good compromise between full fat and skinnier stuff. For instance they make rough terrain on rigid forks a bit less bashing but also seem to work well with suspension forks if required.

Not tried a FS B+, only hardtail. Maybe better suited?

On tyre pressures i was fannying about trying to get rear wheel to seal this afternoon and had them pumped up to 18-20 psi (on 3″ WTB) found that a bit too high (felt like the equivalent of 30-35 in a 2.3″ 29er).

I don’t think the i35 rims will be helping matters with a 3.0in tyre.

Yea I was thinking that.

Though still new to it I’ve loving my B+, widest I got on my 29er was 2.4 and was ok but this B+ (i45 WTB Scraper) climbs the loose gravel/slate/granite/sand near me like nothing I’ve ridden, comes down it well to.
I’m yet to try it at a local trail centre but around home it seems promising

Cheers, Steve

Is the i35 35mm wide? Is that really wide enough to get the benefits of plus. I’m very happy running 35mm rims with Maxxis 2.35 can run those down to 12-15psi which is perfect on a rigid bike. had tried a 3.0 but it was abit too lightbulb shaped and odd

I ran a set of i35(F)/i29(R) NN/trailblazer on the Solaris which was enough for me to know I liked it (and that I’d like to try ‘proper’ i45/3″….).

Maybe it’s the bike. I like my stache on scrapers/3.0 WTB (bridger/ranger) and my Flare Max on i35s (Rekons). Both I just find have loads of grip and the Cotic is ridiculously comfy while still being an absolute blast to ride. Took it too Antur yesterday and the lakes today and over the two days preferred it to my Aeris.

I didn’t quite get the 29’plus’ bit tho. Felt like a poor mans fat bike whereas 27.5+ feels like a normal mountain bike but differently interesting. Better? Dunno, too many ways to cut that. Faster, in some places for me yes (amazingly on a couple of Antur runs but then I’m not troubling the top of any leaderboard) and in some places (esp tarmac) no.

Here’s mine at the top of the Garbon pass earlier.. no other bike I’d rather be on

Untitled by Alex Leigh[/url], on Flickr

I’ve a feeling the i35s aren’t helping with tyre stability, that’s a fair point. But that’s not really the problem I think, I’d put up with the cornering if it was giving a more significantly different feel, and I don’t think the rims can be the issue there. Definitely doesn’t seem like going down to 2.8 will do the job I want- I want more plusness not less! But then lots of the positive chat about plus comes from people using 2.8.

Hmm. I need to explain this better I think. I don’t so much mind the downsides, which possibly I’ve made worse with the rim. It’s the lack of difference, which I don’t think the 35mm rim is causing. I want to swap wheels and have the bike ride interestingly different. Not just worse! I can do that by putting bad tyres on it or randomly spinning the dials on the suspension. But what I love with the fatbike is I can ride the same trail and it feels totally different- same reason I’ve had rigid mtbs.

scotroutes – Member

Maybe you need to take it where you ride fat and then compare.

I did! I’ve been out doing the most typical rides I can, best way to test.

I think maybe I need to get the rocket ron off it, maybe get a bridger and stick it on the front, put the nic on the back, see what that does?

On the rim width front, it’s an interesting ish topic. Cy @ Cotic specs the Flare (and I think the Rocket) b+ with i35s. They reckon the profile is better and the rear of the flare max can only take a 2.8 anyway so not much point having a wider rim.

I need to run the bikes back to back to see if I can tell the difference between 2.8s on i35 and 3.0 on Scrapers. I’m sure there’s something in the profile that should be noticeable.

What pressures were you running? One thing I have found in b+ seems pretty sensitive. I ran the Stache originally at 18/16 and it was a bouncy mess, no I run it at 13/11 and that seems a sweet spot. Flare runs a bit more. Yesterday I stuck 24 in the back so I didn’t mong the rim on the blacks at Antur and it wasn’t as nice but tamed by the rear suspension I guess. And I didn’t have any tyre issues..

put the nic on the back, see what that does?

Puncture repeatedly if my experience is anything to go by.

Gone back to 29 for now.

I find it better on my spectral than the 29ers, in all conditions except proper slop. My local trails have a bit of everything, and the lower bb height and extra grip are ace. Bike is a lot more playful too, more confidence inspiring on the jumpy stuff too.

It’s not the messiah, but it’s also not the naughty boy.

Edit – 35mm is plenty wide for a 2.8nn, not so long ago we were all riding 2.3 on 19mm mavics.

Fwiw I only have a 2.5 wtb breakout on the back, and 2.8nn on the front, so in between really.

35mm rims aren’t really + imo, i run 45mm & it seems a good balance between grip & RR
NN 2.8f 20psirekon 2.8r 25 psi

For me B+ gives me enough of what fat did without being stupidly heavy slow overkill.

Can’t say I can tell much difference between tyres(beyond decently grippy looking ones being OK, semi slicks being as you’d expect etc) , folk I’ve ridden with who’ve talked about tyre performance/limitations* have been behind me on descents so I’ve ignored them.

*I’ve not ridden with the OP

Well…

I’m not really sure. I kind of get what the OP is saying as it’s a little how I felt on some on first b+ rides but then I realised that I was riding rigid at much the same speed as I rode a FS (though my trails aren’t overly rocky where I think it would be less like a FS).

As in the thread below, I’ve done B+ on 25mm and 35mm (internal) rims and found them to work well though I’m wondering about going up to 40 or 45 for the b+ frame I have on the way but the internet reviews I can find are quite conflicting with many saying going from 35 to 40/45 doesn’t really make any real world difference to the ride.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/650b-and-other-plus-sizes-if-you-like-rim-tyre-frame-fork-combinations

Not sure what you were hoping to get putting them on a fairly long travel fs, it’s undamped squished. If your suspension set up properly then the most I’d expect you to pick up is extra climbing traction. I run them on the stooge but they’re providing the cushioning on that.

+1

I’ll still be running fat over the winter if (when) we get some decent snow. Other than that. B+ is floaty enough.

Personally I didn’t like the feeling of the tyre rolling over when leaning it in to corners. I can understand what people like the grip and squish, but they’re not for me. I hate my tyres folding over, but then I run >30psi in my Minions for that very reason. I also like to feel what the ground is doing and the big soft tyres masked that.

I’m also not sold on sidewall strength in big tyres

Tom kp

Isn’t the whole 3″ tyre thing just oh-so stupidly 2006 anyway?

Please try some chronicles

Maybe depends what terrain you are riding.
For me i’ve had my trailblazers on mostly dry buff forest tracks and they’ve been great. Only roll a fraction slower than XC 29er tyres, but gobble up small roots and offer improbable levels of grip.

Running at 12-14psi i find they give quite a nice magic carpet feeling over small level chatter, but can pogo a bit on bigger hits.

Bear in mind we dont have access to b+ enduro tyres yet, so if you want to compare wait until the HR2 and minion arrive or run XC tyres on your 29er wheels.

2.8 magic mary is what I’m waiting for.

At a very wet cannock today my 3.0 nobby nics performed faultlessly. I’m not that experienced but I am quicker on this bike than any I’ve had previously.

OK, cheers folks, this is really helpful (it’s helping me put my own thoughts in order and there’s some really good stuff I’d not thought about)

“There’s no enduro plus tyres”, well thing is, the nic/ron pair is very comparable to a minion/ardent pair. Similiar weight, similiar rolling resistance, but worse grip. So it seems a pretty fair comparison. The only thing these have in common with XC tyres is, I suspect, durability and names.

Hmmmm. I think my main hanging doubt is the tyres, I have no idea why I decided to go with schwalbe now I think about it. Mostly just because the choice was bewildering I think. So I’m either going to call it a bust, or try a different front tyre and shift the nic to the rear. I don’t like anything about the ron, it’s not fast or grippy.

I was going to say Bridger, but holy ****, 1200g. And that’s the TCS Lite! If they ever make a TCS Tough it’ll have its own gravitational field. That slighly defeats the point of the exercise… Can anyone remember a grippier front that’s not as heavy as a dualply? Has to be no bigger than a 3.0 skwabbly, I’m right on the margins of what fits in the frame.

mrhoppy – Member

Not sure what you were hoping to get putting them on a fairly long travel fs, it’s undamped squished

That’s exactly what I was hoping for 😆 A bit of float and bounce. And there’s a wee bit of it, but really not much.

I guess the thing with BB height is, lowering it is awesome if it’s too high, but mine isn’t so probably it’s not the advantage it could be.

Pressures, I’ve been working through the range (helped by the fact that neither tyre is quite airtight yet so they auto-adjust for me :lol:) I’m light and not really a wheelsmasher so I started out at 15psi and I’ve tried down to 10, too scared to go lower because I might want to see these wheels… TBH I didn’t think they worked at all til I got below 12, they might as well have been normal tyres. At 10 I’m happiest with them for straight lines and most unhappy in corners, at 12 it’s probably a balance but they feel less.. plussy. So it’s a bit like my definition of when they’re working best, is when they’re more like a thinner tyre. That’s not too encouraging.

Go for the stretched look. I’ve got trail blazers on 52mm hugo’s. Maybe what you’ve got is a bit iffy, kinda like what I was talking to someone about yesterday.. an IRC Kujo on a 717 disc rim :OD

I was out on mine earlier and said to myself ‘this is just so spot on’ (comfort) but I think I get on better with 2.35’s on the bike if I need control. I know that I can’t rag down stuff on this setup, but I never fitted them to rag.

There’s plenty of people happily using the i35s. Thing is, like I say I can totally buy that the tyres might not be working at their best. But the big thing for me is the lack of, well, plusness– and I’m pretty sure a little more rim width won’t change that fundamentally. If I thought “well, plus tyres are cool but not stable enough” or “these tyres are too rounded off” then I’d be thinking about rims but that’s not really the issue.

Northwind, I would suggest you are dehydrated, perhaps a little more

and you will be back on track – I thought the first rule of plus was don’t criticise plus 😉

I wasn’t impressed. They weren’t bad and when I first got on them the initial feeling was of endless grip, but doing back to back runs with a conventional 29er I was not faster on them. Also i’ve been on 2 demo days and on both the 650+ tyres punctured with the sealant failing to seal them, so did alot of hanging around while they stuck a tube in them.

They knumbed the trail out for me too much. I sort of prefer my suspension to be doing the suspension bit and the tyres doing the grippy tyre bit, i.e. two separate jobs. If I had a rigid bike then the + tyres might work better, enabling you to take on bumpier terrain, but on a full suspension bike I just think the bigger softer tyres hampers the suspension and slows you down.

Interesting re suspension, I was thinking of trying a 29er fs frame but it seems you can get only 2.8s in at best.

Happy with my 3″ Nic, less so the Ron, but as I say ie never experimented hugely with tyres.

My plus bike was an opportunity purchase – the open I had previously cracked due to me being stupid and that presented an opp to try something different, so I went for their One + frame and built some new wheels with LB 38mm wide rims. Have to say it’s an absolute hoot – I can now climb faster, descend with more confidence and it’s still almost as light as my 29er. (19lb with plus wheels, 18lb with 29er wheels).

Someone made a comment here about plus being suited to people who are not Gnar and that may be the answer to this particular conendrum.

You’re right to question, I’m not sure B+ makes sense on a FS for pissing around the the woods tech riding.

I’ve had a think (as I’m not going to splash the cash until I kill either of my current bikes) and the plus stuff would make sense on either

– rigid bikes to give them some squish, therefore some compliance & traction

– big mountain rocky riding. I was humiliated by a fella who rode all the way up Skiddaw on a plus* bike!

*was also an e-bike, that may have helped.