Armitstead and these missed tests…

My understanding is that she didn’t try and use any excuses for the 2nd and 3rd incidents as she knew (possibly following legal advice) that she was bang to rights for those – whereas she did apparently query the first one at the time, even if not going so far as the formal process of disputing it. So yes she is on 2 strikes until October.

Like others on here I’m really not seeing all the smoke (and assuming fire) that some of the keyboard warriors are. I’m curious which of the 2 occasions where she’s had a miss recorded against her she was microdosing the day before a race and trying to avoid the testers – was it the post worlds one in October, or the Thursday in June this year a week before the Aviva British Tour?

She’s one of us and a nice white lass – must be ok surely? 😯

“We” don’t do that sort of thing.

Nice insinuation THM. What she isn’t is from some country where doping is endemic, nor is there any evidence at all linking her to doping. If she was from a different country I’d simply not be interested enough to look into all the details to establish for myself whether or not anything looked suspicious. Do you think it looks suspicious and that she was trying to avoid the testers, and what is your basis for that?

Nice insinuation THM. What she isn’t is from some country where doping is endemic

Of course, as I said “we” don’t do that kind of thing do we? We are Persll pure….

Try reading, try comprehending, try not snipping relevant context and once you can manage that try not posting strawmen

Lizzie has been cleared to ride by everyone who actually counts. Those people who actually have all the facts to make that decision. 7 pages of mostly bile and ill informed rubbish from STW posters ( honourable exceptions not included ) I very much get the impression that some on here want successful athletes to fall foul of doping regs, guilty or not !! Why I don’t know, maybe be looking for flaws in others it somehow masks their own dull humdrum existence 🙁

Ok. I can sleep easy knowing that we are the good guys of pro sport. Phew….

teamhurtmore – Member
Ok. I can sleep easy knowing that we are the good guys of pro sport. Phew….

I think the main point thm is that if it wasn’t for the inept tester we would know nothing about this and would be sleeping easy. People are making connections that would be dismissed on a jhj conspiracy thread as if they are fact.

Isn’t funny how Lizzie always has someone else to blame, this time it’s an ‘inept tester’. Maybe he failed to up grade his crystal ball to discerned her undisclosed room number.

You buy into the cycling is clean now (which version are we on now, I remember the post Festina version when they magicked up a backdated TUE for Armstrongs steroid test, I’m pretty sure that was version 1.0) that’s fine, you’re satisfied. Sorry, but I’m not.

And we are not producing things as ‘fact’ we are saying there are different possible narratives to explain what after all was a temporary(/provisional?) suspension FFS! And this was beaten after legal advice which was provided (sorry, ‘shared’) by her cycling federation (who have a vested financial interest FFS). But you’re right, it’s all explained, inept tester. Move along now, nothing to see….

It seems to me you are failing to see any smoke because it’s all being blown up your arse.

Whilst I think Lizzie is clean and should be going to Rio she should accept a large part of the responsibility for the situation she’s found herself in. Even the missed test that was expunged she was partly at fault for by not following guidance on providing room numbers.
She seems to have gone into victim mode and on the defensive, possibly forced into it as the Mail etc. are out for blood but it ends up with her coming across as disingenuous

As Tyler Hamilton said in his book it is better to miss tests/not be available than get caught doping. You get caught doping and your career is over, no money, no sponsorship……He also mentioned doctors prescribing things, cortisone i think under the therapitic medical loophole.

I find it really difficult for you to be at the top of your physical sport without assistance, and not just cycling. But things like athletics and boxing.

You buy into the cycling is clean now (which version are we on now, I remember the post Festina version when they magicked up a backdated TUE for Armstrongs steroid test, I’m pretty sure that was version 1.0) that’s fine, you’re satisfied. Sorry, but I’m not.

So ARE you accusing her of doping, then?

So ARE you accusing her of doping, then?

No, but I acknowledge the possibility that she might be which all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible. I don’t believe that doping has been eradicated from cycling (i.e. Not believing in the we are all clean now that you guys seem to accept as gospel). So if there’s still doping, hey, it’s just possible that she might be. Apparently this counts as a witch hunt! Or is it simply a thoughtcrime?

It’s also possible that she’s the victim of BC’s apparent contempt for female cyclists (and mountain bikers) and they’ve left her Insufficiently supported and she’s just simply **** things up. Because she has **** things up (hence the original suspension). Remember that small fact? It was the AD authorities that sanctioned her for anti-doping irregularities (albeit failure to present for testing than for failing a test).

Even the missed test that was expunged she was partly at fault for by not following guidance on providing room numbers.

Fantastic guidance, but how few hotels on earth run on a system where you could get an allocated room number before check-in? While other testers have stated openly that the tester in this case doesn’t seem to have made reasonable efforts to contact her (they reckon that once you start flashing anti-doping credentials then the hotel staff invariably contact the guest)

In other news, BBC hour long programme about Mo Farah last night, off season training in Ethiopia, no discussion of the testing regime that seemingly doesn’t exist out there, makes you think, eh?

all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible

The reason this thread’s now on page eight is because nobody apart from Lizzie (and possibly her dealer) know if she’s actually doping.

I understand it may be harder to admit uncertainty than to adopt blind faith on one side or the other, but that’s what the situation calls for.

No, but I acknowledge the possibility that she might be which all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible. I don’t believe that doping has been eradicated from cycling

Ok just working from the facts here.
First test massive cock up on the testers behalf. They didn’t do their job correctly. CAS accepted it and ruled that.
2nd Not an actual test was short notice change of plans due to personal family reasons, updated on system not the other.
3rd Missed test – her PA had left without anyone telling her.

There may not be smoke without fire but is this actually smoke?

In the world of “beyond resonable doubt” she is walking free here
on the balance of probability she is fine
the only world where she isn’t is the I’m not calling her a doper but you know she is…. witch hunt proportions.

You can update the details into the Whereabouts app easy enough though once you’ve checked in (and yes that should be a priority as a professional athlete).

Whilst I think Lizzie is clean and should be going to Rio she should accept a large part of the responsibility for the situation she’s found herself in.

This +1.

Ok just working from the facts here.
First test massive cock up on the testers behalf. They didn’t do their job correctly. CAS accepted it and ruled that.
2nd Not an actual test was short notice change of plans due to personal family reasons, updated on system not the other.
3rd Missed test – her PA had left without anyone telling her.

There may not be smoke without fire but is this actually smoke?

In the world of “beyond resonable doubt” she is walking free here
on the balance of probability she is fine
the only world where she isn’t is the I’m not calling her a doper but you know she is…. witch hunt proportions.

This^^^^

I’m not calling her a doper but you know she is….

Go on, quote me where I say I know she’s a doper. Because I deliberately haven’t as I categorically don’t know. But, hey, don’t let that get in the way of your little rant.

And btw you missed out in the first case how LA massively cocked up by NOT ADVISING ANTI DOPING CORRECTLY OF HER WHEREABOUTS (i.e. room number) which is how all this started in the first place. She didn’t do her job properly either. You know, seen as you’re throwing blame around.

I understand it may be harder to admit uncertainty than to adopt blind faith on one side or the other, but that’s what the situation calls for.

Exactly, I’m accepting the uncertainty.

“we” don’t do that kind of thing do we?

Junior time trial champ admitted doping

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/junior-time-trial-champion-gabriel-evans-admits-epo-use-203450

Even the winner of last years Gorrick 12:12 was cheating 😯

metalheart – Member

No, but I acknowledge the possibility that she might be which all you fanboy koolaid drinkers seem to think is impossible.

I haven’t seen a single post that suggests this tbh. What most people are saying is, there’s no evidence of doping. There’s no evidence of intentional test evasion. There’s lots of misunderstanding/intentional misrepresentation (even on here people are still saying “3 missed tests”. As someone said above, we’re not even in “no smoke without fire” territory, we’re in “hey, can you smell smoke” “Mmm, maybe, I can smell something unusual”. And even if we were at “no smoke without fire” that’s still not enough. It’s basically nothing at all.

Interview with Lizzie on Sky

Exactly, I’m accepting the uncertainty.

Fair enough, your comment above seemed very jaundiced on the subject and as if you were presuming guilt.

I doubt anyone here thinks we should not be sceptical about cyclists, riders are still getting busted so we all know it’s happening.

2nd Not an actual test was short notice change of plans due to personal family reasons, updated on system not the other.
3rd Missed test – her PA had left without anyone telling her.

It is the 3rd test she is claiming family reasons and the UKAD don’t accept it as an excuse.

Likewise it is solely the athletes responsibly you can’t blame your PA, manager, coach or dog etc.

A short notice change of plans can be updated.

Thing is these rules are in place to stop doping, because we know how easy it is and as such they should be upheld.

there’s no evidence of doping.

. There’s no (hard) evidence of doping, I can fully agree with that.

There’s no evidence of intentional test evasion

how do you prove intent? There’s the ‘missed’ tests (or filing failure) on three occasions resulting in a suspension. That is fact. One missed test has been struck off by the CAS. You (or I) have no way of knowing LAs intent.

If Lizzie wasn’t British (say she was Spanish for instance) would you accept things as readily then? Because if she was Russian…. Well….

In other news, BBC hour long programme about Mo Farah last night, off season training in Ethiopia, no discussion of the testing regime that seemingly doesn’t exist out there, makes you think, eh?

Thats true, Kenya has only just been removed from WADAs non compliant list, until 2006, doping was ‘legal’ in Spain, Russia, enough said, Sharapova, football wont even test during major events as FIFA/UEFA doctors will step in to fix it etc.

Basically, sport is corrupt. As cycling fans, we get kicked the hardest and the most often, Lizzie and every other cyclist should follow laws to the letter. The fact they dont and in this case, she didnt means she is either arrogant, stupid or hiding something.

Read this, if she wins gold, it will be a sour win. All because she didnt upload a room number, she is a cretin

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/rio-2016-olympics-lizzie-armitstead-doping-drugs-tests-doesnt-deserve-to-be-there-a7170381.html

Lizzie has been cleared to ride by everyone who actually counts

Only after a legal team paid by her went to CAS, thats quite significant I think. She couldnt be bothered to update her whereabouts but could be bothered to use lawyers to clear her to compete with CAS

Fair enough, your comment above seemed very jaundiced on the subject and as if you were presuming guilt.

I am very jaundiced, the sport I loved has been so tarnished I find it hard to believe in anyone 100% anymore.

However, I’m not presuming guilt in this case as any ‘evidence’ is purely circumstantial. My misgivings are stated though.

If it was all a big conspiracy [jivebunny mode]then this is exactly the kind of situation you’d get![/jivebunny mode]

Makes you think…. 😉

There’s so much historical baggage in all sports but particularly cycling that unless an athlete never misses a test, never fails a test (either at the time or in the recent incidents of retesting several years later) and is seen (and believed) to be whiter than white that there’ll inevitably be some suspicion.

To a degree the current semi-secret testing regimen plays in to the hands of the doubters. If missed tests were announced at the time they could be explained/contested there and then rather than wait until the possibility of a third missed test. If the missed test stood then *everyone* including the athlete would be aware of the fact.

Cycling is, in a way, a victim of its own success in tackling doping so openly: everyone points to cycling saying “another cyclist caught taking drugs” whilst ignoring the fact that their chosen sport doesn’t have a problem because they don’t test as thoroughly, Football only signed up to the WADA code in 2014 for instance. Wikipedia states testers only appeared at 32 out of 3500 league games in the 1999-2000 which is equivalent to them turning up on one day in three years’ worth of TdFs, Vueltas and Giros.

Ok just working from the facts here.
First test massive cock up on the testers behalf. They didn’t do their job correctly. CAS accepted it and ruled that

I understand the first test, she was in her Hotel room when the tester turned up but had her phone on silent out of respect for her room mate so missed his call. Not a massive cock up, actually yes, a massive cock up by her. But they did their job correctly, you could be forgiven for saying she swerved a test that day…

I understand the first test, she was in her Hotel room when the tester turned up but had her phone on silent out of respect for her room mate so missed his call. Not a massive cock up, actually yes, a massive cock up by her. But they did their job correctly, you could be forgiven for saying she swerved a test that day…

Not really. Athlete’s aren’t under any obligation to leave their phone on. The finding was apparently that the tester didn’t do enough to locate her according to UKAD protocols. Though we’ll have to await the publication of the CAS Reasoned Decision as I don’t believe the discrepancy between what they did do what they should have done is clear at present.

When I started this thread I really wasn’t pointing a finger of doping suspicion at Armitstead. It really was more out of incredulity that she could have put herself in this situation at such a critical time in her career.

metalheart – Member

If Lizzie wasn’t British (say she was Spanish for instance) would you accept things as readily then? Because if she was Russian…. Well

I couldn’t give a crap that she’s british. Or that she’s a cyclist- road cycling’s boring. I mean, I only know about all this because it’s in the news and we’re talking about it, and that’s only happened because she’s british… But it doesn’t make any difference to me thinking “this is obvious bullshit”

I love that hiring lawyers to defend yourself, and winning, is seen as suspicious 😆

If missed tests were announced at the time they could be explained/contested there and then rather than wait until the possibility of a third missed test.

You can contest it at the time, she just didn’t, it was her choice.

You can contest it at the time, she just didn’t, it was her choice.

Well… she says she did, UKAD says she didn’t 😕

@dragon – yes but the point I’m making that you either missed or ignored is that the missed test isn’t made public. Doing so would “focus” the mind of the athlete not to miss another one.

Imagine if, in football, the issuing of yellow cards weren’t public and also stuck with a player for a year. Then a player suddenly gets sent off at their third yellow card because no-one knew about the first two.

dragon – Member

You can contest it at the time, she just didn’t, it was her choice.

Which is perfectly reasonable; having an issue with one test isn’t a major issue so it’s easy to see why you might let it slide rather than incurring significant costs, distracting yourself from your training, etc. Then, when circumstances changed, she acted on those new circumstances. It doens’t, or shouldn’t, affect the big picture- strike, succesful appeal.

TBH I’m not sure it would make a difference, surely the thought of being banned should be enough.

I love that hiring lawyers to defend yourself, and winning, is seen as suspicious

Nope, it’s that her cycling federation took legal advice independently then ‘shared’ this with her that’s suspicious.

Not that there’s a possible conflict of interest what with BC funding being dependent on the medal haul (or otherwise) or anything and Lizzie being a central pillar in achieving this. Oh no. Nothing to see here, move along now please….

Is going round in circles a bit this thread!

Though if I were Lizzie and I was having probably the biggest year of my career, what with Rio coming up, being World Champ, defending my World Cup title, etc. And I had two silly strikes against my name that I believed I wasn’t to blame for, knowing that one more and I’d be suspended with a real risk of a 4 year ban… I think I’d have pro-actively challenged that first whereabouts failure before it became a big problem!

You’d also think that when she met with BC to put together a plan to deal with the issue of her being on two strikes (as she says she did in her statement) that one of the first actions would have been to challenge that first strike.

It’s just really baffling how it was allowed to get this far.