Armenia and Azerbaijan

It isn’t my speciality, but I suspect that you’re conflating NATO with the actions of individual countries or partnerships of countries. It’s a bit like saying that FIFA is an international football team
A partial answer is that NATO wasn’t deployed operationally between 1949 and 1992.
From then it enforced UN peace-keeping efforts, e.g. peace-keeping, naval patrols and no-fly zones after Yugoslavia imploded. NATO deployed over US skies after 9/11 until the US realised that there wasn’t an ongoing aerial threat
It’s done odd bits since, e.g. airlift relief after the 2005 Pakistan earthquake, anti-piracy patrols off Somalia, but I don’t think that it’s done what you imagine
As to carbon footprints, etc; it has buildings and other infrastructure with a budget of 2.5bn euros, but it doesn’t have an armed force

Unless someone can correct this, I cant find any evidence of current US led NATO training of Azerbaijani troops!?

Closest I can find, is Turkey acting outside of NATO, and the idea theyre US led is not particularly accurate. Although one of the sources detailed that there was a joint exercise Turkey with Pakistan which didnt seem to get a mention. The map of US bases, also appears to show countries where the USAF and USN are allowed to refuel at designated sites, which is a bit of a stretch. Does the US have a permanent militarized presence there?

FWIW, from what I can see Azerbaijan are the problem in this situation by some considerable margin, so far at least. But im getting a very one sided picture favouring Armenia at the minute.

I cant really see the credibility of going straight to WAHH NATO just yet. If youre going back and looking at external influencers then NATO is no more worth bashing than a number of other parties.

Still non the wiser why a photo from 1970 was used in that image.

None of this would be happening without Russias actions, as they clearly had been a stabilising force in the region.

What is NATO’s carbon footprint…

What does this have to do with a conflict NATO isnt in?

Upon further reading, theres a report done by SIPRI on arms in the Nagarno-Karabach war, these arms are overwhelmingly Russian in origin.

Im not that familiar with SIPRI if anyone has any criticism of them?

Report is here https://www.sipri.org/commentary/topical-backgrounder/2021/arms-transfers-conflict-zones-case-nagorno-karabakh

It claims 60.1% Russian supplied for Azerbaijan and 93.7% for Armenia (time frame 2011 to 2020)

The only NATO member supplying anything significant is Turkey at 2.9% for Azerbaijan.

Hats off, I stand corrected; perhaps I can be a touch eager to criticize western powers due to the constant propaganda we’re fed as regards a history of conquest, colonialism and resource stripping… clearly Russia are every bit as manipulative when it comes to the shadowy world of arms deals

In this instance, it seems my energies were misdirected, though there is a worrying trend of increased global investment in the arms industry;

This is once again data supplied by SIPRI, who in fairness, do seem to have comendable aims

What role NATO’s influence has in increasing global defence spending may be best left for another thread…

Fair post Jive

What role NATO’s influence has in increasing global defence spending may be best left for another thread…

That would need a research institute to untangle, theres so much tit for tat, rising ambitions faltering powers, localised and regional grievances, and not forgetting trade wrangling involved it would likely be impossible to honestly pin down.

Back OT, Im seeing pretty much zero reliable looking perspectives on this conflict at the minute. Presumably thats an information war no one has a good grasp on in the west just now. Its just a tirade of accusations that only really differ in the country name(s) being used.

What role NATO’s Russia’s influence has in increasing global defence spending may be best left for another thread…

FTFY. In case you haven’t been following the news, Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and stepped it up hugely this year, unleashing a wave of rape, torture, and murder of civilians not seen in Europe since the 1940s. This prompted Sweden and Finland to join NATO, plus we can expect eastern European countries to step up their military expenditures. You can thank Putin for this, he has done more for the global arms trade than any living person.

You can thank Putin for this, he has done more for the global arms trade than any living person.

All bolstered with the support of Saudi Arabia, as I previously mentioned…

Ostracized by the West, Russia Finds a Partner in Saudi Arabia

The two oil-producing countries have extended their partnership even as the United States and Europe have sought to punish and isolate Russia for invading Ukraine.

The Saudis are in turn supported by the UK and US in their constant bombardment of Yemen amid the world’s worst humanitarian crisis.

Perhaps war is closer to human instinct than we’d prefer to admit…

We’ll have to see how the situation between Azerbaijan and Armenia develops, but if Russia are supplying the majority of arms to both sides, it may be that such a conflict ultimately benefits the Russian economy…

That said, you’d imagine the RAND corporation had factored in such matters when suggesting exploiting the situation

So, Russia’s just abandoned its sphere of influence and handed it over to the U.S.

What did Russia do? Again, nothing but expressing deep concerns. Later, Armenian MP Alen Simonyan announced it was the US that contacted Azerbaijan and managed to secure a ceasefire. Russia was of no help.

— Todar Baktemir (@TBaktemir) September 16, 2022

When the conflict broke out, Tajik president Rahmon and Kyrgyz president Japarov were at the SCO summit in Samarkand, shaking hands with Putin and not saying a word about the war that just began between their countries. Unsurprisingly, Russia didn't even try to mediate either.

— Todar Baktemir (@TBaktemir) September 16, 2022

Putin genuinely hates democracies and loves dictators, siding with them whenever possible even if he doesn't say that explicitly. That's not because he's a movie villan, or at least not just because of that. The thing is, dictatorships are more predictable and easier to control.

— Todar Baktemir (@TBaktemir) September 16, 2022

Listened to a good pod the other day with Robert Evans (Behind The Bastards) interviewing Joe Kassabian (@jkass99 on Twitter) on the It Could Happen Here feed. Depressing stuff.

Strange topic to post on a cycling forum

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