Are 29ers quicker up hill?

Went out with a mate today who has just bought a 29er. He usually is level pegging with me on the climbs but today he destroyed me by a considerable margin. Is it witch craft or he has just become good friends with Lance Armstrong?
Are 29ers quicker up hill if the riders are equal in fitness and if they are why?

Cheers

No, but new bikes are always faster. Fact.

How fast you go up a hill depends on how much power you put out. The bike makes very little difference. None at all if it’s smooth and if it’s not there are too many factors to consider to be able to say that one wheel size will always beat another.

Cheers

Andy

No idea why but it was the first thing I noted with the penny farthing, it just didnt want to stop going uphill. The comparison was harder as it was a short suss 26er (anthem) compared to a titanium HT 29er but the difference felt like night and day.

I was on a carbon 456 and he was on a kona which has entry level gear. I had a go of it and it went like a rocket. Very strange

I think the weight of a bike has a lot to do with how well it goes uphill. My full sus is 2 min slower up one of the climbs I do (isn’t Strava great) compared to my hard tail which is 10Ibs lighter. The lower rolling resistance of 29ers should also result in more forward propulsion compared with 26’s that don’t roll as well over the small bumps.

Not with me sat on it 😳

If I put mine on a slope…it rolls UPHILL!!!!

I would say they are. I too suddenly jumped up the pegging order within my crowd of 26er riding mates when I got mine. I’m from a more road riding background and they feel far more like a road bike on the climbs in terms of the efficiency. They still school me on the downhills, as that’s more about experience and balls, and they’ve got more than me on both counts, but I’m slowly catching them up. I’m struggling to think of any downsides relative to my old 26er. It just feels like a better and more confidence inspiring bike all round – but, wheel size aside, it is a better bike than my old one.

maybe something to do with the gearing being higher? ie if he was in bottom gear and tried to keep the same cadence, then he’d go faster than you if you also in bottom gear (Assuming bottom gear is the same) due to the wheel size?

Along with other factors of course

Mine just flattens hills full stop, not ridden a gradient I’ve noticed since I got it!!

They’re quicker everywhere . Fact…..uphill is included in everywhere

Maybe ask these guys – http://www.analyticcycling.com/Example_Page.html

In my experience they’re faster everywhere – uphill, downhill, flat bits.

Complete tosh! A fast rider will still be fast what ever size his wheels are.

It’s just marketing nonsense. Do you work for Specialized?

A fast rider will still be fast what ever size his wheels are.

Well, duh, of course. What I’m saying is that *I* am faster everywhere on a 29er than I am on a 26″ wheel bike. And not by a little bit, quite significantly.

Is it not just plain mathematics that shows a 29er is faster?
Due to the larger circumference, one turn of the cranks gives a further distance travelled?

A bit like changing gear you mean?!

Dirtbiker that’s exactly my thought. Same drive train and gearing but one turn of the cranks sends you that little bit further, it takes a little extra to get the wagon wheels going but once you’ve got your usual cadence you should be riding faster than you would on smaller wheels.

Had a go on a mates new Giant 29r this morning and it was the same, a little effort then wooffff, you’re off…

Yes!

Yes, if the gearing is the same you go further for one turn of the cranks with a larger wheel. It is also harder. In fact, it’s almost exactly the same as turning a smaller wheel in a different gear.

Honestly reading some of this stuff you’d think 28ers had rewritten the laws of physics. How fast you go up a hill depends on weight and how much power you put out. If somebody is climbing a smooth road faster on a 29er then either the bike is lighter or the rider is putting out more power. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

What confuses things is that we are all faster on a new bike (for a while). We’ve just spent a lot of money and we’re going to feel pretty silly if our new shiny bike is slower than our old one. That’s a pretty powerful incentive to try a bit harder.

Cheers

Andy

I can ride up hills I couldn’t before – quite noticeable for me.

Not sure if because of better traction, larger footprint, better rolling so better cadence but its real …. whatever … ?!

Have noticed I’m no longer the first to dismount on the really steep stuff too.

I find the increased traction of the 29er helps me get up the hills faster.

No it’s all rider, not this marketing bollox that your all falling for
Bet he had new bike legs
I was 10 minutes faster today on my local loop on the fat front than I was on my old 29er

If it was a rough climb, there might be some gain from better rolling over bumps, but if it’s smooth then it’s just power to weight ratio.

I did my regular circuit on a steel 29er HT (I usually ride a lighter steel HT 26er). I got up hills significantly more quickly and easily, which was both pleasing and annoying. I can’t explain the physics behind it though.

I think so, and I think that is because a) they are more efficient for the same effort because less energy is lost on trailcrap b) on a steep climb they are less likely to be knocked off course by trailcrap.

I suspect the only way to prove this is by using a HRM and repeating the hills while keeping to the same heart rate.

None at all if it’s smooth and if it’s not there are too many factors to consider to be able to say that one wheel size will always beat another.

Cheers

Andy

None at all? Bull. Like I have said over and over about my findings with getting on far better on 26 over 29 accelerating from near standing starts on steep technical climbs.. down to long slow drags that are often smooth firetracks, the effort to accelerate the 29ers I have owned and the 29er bikes I have tried all feel and ride slower at slower paces. I’m still wondering why nobody can feel this over a 26″ wheeled bike on the same terrain.

Real steep terrain that nearly has you off pushing,coupled with large rock gardens that blow the theory of a big wheel rolling over them better will slow the bike (either 29 or 26″) down to very slow speeds. I find accelerating the smaller 26 up and over sections that cannot be powered over with one long constant power output so much easier on the 26. It really doesn’t baffle me why this is so. It’s a smaller wheel, I’d expect it to accelerate from slower speeds with ease over a 29,and it certainly feels like it does.. and it appears to DO SO when I jump back and forth betweeen my 26 and 29 inch wheeled bikes.

A lot of people can’t seem to feel or see this when putting it into practice. They don’t seem to grasp that it’s easier to accelerate from near standing start efforts on the 26″ wheel over a larger wheel. The blurb has blinded them when it’s there to be felt and noted in practice and there to be seen on paper if anyone was to go all scientific on how a larger wheel accelerates slower than a smaller wheel.

One of the reasons why I chose to take a 20″ wheel bmx to a road hill climb once and won, because of the course being so tight and twisty with corners that pulled you down to around 5mph.

Don’t knock then till you’ve tried them. I used to commute on an MTB with narrow road tyres on, when I started commuting on a 700c road bike I was much much quicker with less effort. Bike weight not that much different, tyre width not that much different. So it is more than just gearing. But the rider is the most important part of the jigsaw. A decent rider could get a Raleigh Budgie round a hill quicker than me on my 29er. Not sure about the marketing theory though. I’m not aware of any pro-active or aggressive marketing towards 29ers. And in my local bike shops they’re still few and far between and you struggle to get a wide range of tyres for them. It is definitely a case of letting the masses dictate which way to go. I personally think that it’ll settle out where XC and All-Mountain short and mid travel suspension bikes will predominantly be 29ers, and the more aggressive downhill bikes and bikes that need long suspension travel will remain at 26″. There will be a cross over point where the benefits of long travel suspension will outweigh the benefits of larger wheels and it doesn’t seem like the’ve cracked long travel 29ers yet, if they ever will. The size of the wheels don’t matter when you’re in mid air, only the soft landing on plush suspension.

When someone asked Ned Overend how to go quicker up hills, he replied ‘push harder on the pedals’ quite!

OP – why not ask your mate if you can swap bikes for a ride? i bet you’ll be faster than him on the climbs on his 29er!

The torque output you can give on 29er is much smoother than on a 26, this provides better, smoother traction – theres less peeks and troughs in the amount of power you can get through the wheels. It has nothing to do with gear choice (that depends on how fit you are), in fact most 29ers are now spec’d ‘under geared’ in comparison to 26″ bikes – using 22/32 vs 26/38 or 28/42 on a 26″ bike. I also think it has little to do with the increased grip a 29″ gives due to its tyre size as the footprint gain on a 29 tyre over a 26 is minimal.

There is a reason that 99% of XC racers choose to ride 29ers over 26 -its not that they’re sponsors force them to – they just are quicker on an XC course.

Monkey boy, what on earth are you on about re: gearing?

And 99% of XC racers being on big wheels, they’re not

I definitely go faster uphills now, it’s very noticible and my mates have mentioned it. But, and it’s a big but, I went from an alpine 160 to a Cotic Solaris

I’m faster uphill on my titanium rigid 29er than my 6″ travel, built for the alps, dropper posted 26er.

Does that help anyone?

Edit: beaten to it – and it’s an Alpine 160 here too.

I borrowed a Karate Monkey for a few weeks once and it was no way as much fun to ride as my Cotic Soul. I think it would make a great tourer but I ride for fun not to get somewhere. It was slower up- hill than my Soul as well.

well i’ve found myself markedly faster uphill on a 29er and all of my riding mates have commented on it, so i’m saying yes. As i ride rigid and they ride full suss i’m the last one down the hill so it balances itself out

Interesting thread this.

I have a geared 5spot and a Cotic Solaris which I run SS. The Solaris is my first 29er – I’ve had it for 6/8 months.

I’m sold on the science and benefits of 29ers and was before I got one, the principles are fairly simple. Whats less clear and what I was curious about, was the real differences on the trail.

I have found that the Solaris seems to cllimb better than the 10% lighter titanium SS it replaced. I think this is due to the increased inertia of the wheels coupled with the much talked about better approach angle of the wheels to the terrain. It’s already been mentioned that torque transfer is smoothed out which makes power transfer smoother. Because a singlespeed demands more careful control of torque to avoid spinning out, I’m more aware of this and I think it’s a genuine factor. I think these three things combine to make a perceivable difference to how well the Solaris maintains speed on climbs.

It’s not faster than the 5 spot on technical climbs though, where the speed is lower and virtual standing still accelerations are required, and I think Martin xyz is right in this regard, for me though, running an SS, it’s an issue that’s masked by riding the one gear and I generally avoid those types of climb, since they’re not best on a single speed anyway. Irrespective of the type of bike I’m riding, generally the type of twitchy, staccato climbing that martinxyz describes is a very low percentage on most of my rides, so It’s not really a big factor for me.

Other observations – It does roll better. I don’t get on and think ‘Blimey, this is so much faster!’ it’s more subtle than that – it doesn’t feel any less bumpy, or any faster, but when I freewheel, it takes longer to slow down. There weirdest thing for me is getting back on the 5 spot after riding the Solaris – it feels like the front wheel is hooking up on the smallest of trails features – it feels a bit like riding over hard baked mud that cattle have been through.

It’s a tiny bit lazier and a little slower to turn in, but, I don’t think this is actually a bad thing! It translates to a more stable and planted feeling on the trail without feeling slow. Again getting back on the 5 spot, it feels excessively twitchy, like it’s too fast to actually be able to make use of it.

On balance, for my particular brand of trail hacking, I favour the 29er. It won’t be the same for everyone, but I do get it. I’m even looking to sell the 5spot for a 29er, and that’s a really competent and sorted trail bike.

YMMV.

steve_b77 – Member

Monkey boy, what on earth are you on about re: gearing?

And 99% of XC racers being on big wheels, they’re not

ok gearing, if you look at 29ers sold with a double, rather than tripple chainsets, you’ll see that most decent manufacturers are selling their 29er bikes with a lower ratio’s than the equivilent 26er.

ie – if you had two single speeds, a 26er and a 29er, both with a 36t front ring and a 18t rear, the 29er will be harder to pedal up to speed because the wheel is larger. So manufactures spec 29ers with a 22/32 chainsets over a 26er with a 26/38. The smaller front rings will provide more suitable gear inches (link) to a 26er. – this has no relation to how well a 29er climbs.

as for xc racers – ok 95%, the other 5% are on 650B… 😀

I got a Canyon 29er HT this rear and several people have also commented how much faster I am up hill on it. My other bikes are a Zesty and a SS rigid 29er, I have own 26er HTs but not for a couple of years so can’t directly compare. The rigid 29er is fairly fast too on the right gradient hill but is hampered by very heavy wheels.
For me it’s the power delivery that is better; it smooths out my choppy pedalling style and doesn’t keeps momentum, whereas with a 26er on steepish hills it always feels like 3 forwards and 2 back.
It’s still not as fun as the Zesty though but then they are different types of bikes.

Gearing wise to answer an above query I rode ss 26 for years with 32-16 when I went for a 29er g had to drop to 32-18 for a similar gear inch

Now I’m older fatter and just starting out again with a new bike so have a 29er with rohloff 😉