Apparently, there’s no soil left in the Tweed Valley because of us.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24639422.action-protect-soil-urged-body-warns-scotland-falling-behind/#comments-anchor

The report and the news article themselves are fine (we don’t treat soil as well as we do air and water, it’s knackered, legislate to protect it) but the comment on the bottom is baffling.

Visit the tweed valley, unauthorised mountain bike trails have stripped the soil from most of the valley , the forestry commission pulls out it’s hair and the government encourages expansion , it’s the bikers “right to roam” with no thought to the long term consequences

As someone with a professional interest in soil, this has had me baffled. Farmers are the main cause for erosion after natural processes. I can’t say I worry too much about trail erosion- it accounts for such a miniscule percentage of erosion and what erosion it does result in doesn’t actually make any difference in the grand scheme of things (other than it’s perhaps a bit ugly).

It seems a baffling view to take – that in forests which have soil absolutely ruined by the planting of inappropriate trees too densely and the use of massive machinery, mountain bikes are the main risk to soil.

The easy answer (they see lot’s of bikes and are looking for someone to blame) is most likely the correct answer.

They see bikers as recreational nuisance that should be easy to deal with and don’t NEED to be there. Other sources of erosion that you mention are harder to remove or reduce. Hence they blame the bikers :o)

For avoidance of doubt (OP does refer to it as a comment), it’s not part of the article so has broadly the same standards and motives /agenda as any reply on facearse or Twitter.

Sorry, I’ve obviously been eating too much of it on my visits to the area.

(burp)

Aye, it’s a bit like the great escape. Every time I visit Golfie I put some soil in my pockets. I’m slowly recreating NYNY in my back garden.

From their own little miserable curtain twitching world, they see people smiling, laughing, whooping and high fiving, wearing bright coloured clothes and going fast on expensive toys. It must be their fault, they must be up to no good….

Bottom half of the internet… Ignore

And a 25ton tigercat is like a ballerina on the hillside.

Les Barrie needs their internet turning off.

An expartner of mine was a transport studies academic.

She was interviewing some UK drivers who were raging about all the potholes in the road that were being caused by too many damn cyclists.

The capacity of relatively intelligent people to be f**king idiots still astounds me.

Here’s two weapons of mass erosion in the valley.

I wander which one causes the most damage.

I put some soil in my pockets.

Username checks out!

A quick Facebook search reveals Les is a brexit voting pensioner. Quelle surprise

Careful, he who shall not be named will be along shortly!

That comment is absolute nonsense.

@singlespeedstu if you run magic marys front and back I reckon you’ll find those do more damage than band tracks on all four corners of that harvester.  Look at the ruts you left getting your bike there.

Look at the ruts you left getting your bike there.

You should see the damage I can cause when I’m actually riding it.

I usually don’t take the soil more than a few miles away though and make up for it by bringing the same amount back from other places in the valley.

Careful, he who shall not be named will be along shortly!

I’m sure he’s back in prison by now.

You should see the damage I can cause when I’m actually riding it.

It’s why, for the sake of the environment I don’t run a visor. Forever digging holes with it. This way I slide along with minimal displacement of the soil.

The easy answer (they see lot’s of bikes and are looking for someone to blame) is most likely the correct answer.

I think its more the reverse. They dislike cyclists and are looking for anything to blame the cyclists for in order to try and get them banned.

There is a subset of walkers who are really into wanting bikes banned and use erosion as one of the ways to try and do it.

I think its more the reverse. They dislike cyclists and are looking for anything to blame the cyclists for in order to try and get them banned.

There is a subset of walkers who are really into wanting bikes banned and use erosion as one of the ways to try and do it.

Totally. Nails. It.

As above, there is a hatred for cyclists and a desire to tag anything and everything negative on to them.

Thanks @munrobiker for kicking us off with a well balanced OP

Thanks to @singlespeedstu for the photo. I did use to worry about trail erosion at Woburn. Until i saw 20 years of mtb erosion vs 1 passage of a machine like that.

I suspect that we are more of an issue above the tree line.

From above (say, satellite imagery), the thin lines of a path are just about visible dissecting untouched* land. But walking past the bottom of 3G doesn’t half look like destruction. Which is what the beloved walkers see of course.

*Not by MTBers anyroad.

Careful, he who shall not be named will be along shortly!

For avoidance of doubt @mark already invoked his name yesterday so if he does turn up we have something we can legitimately blame the management for.

FWIW this is what I was talking about in the Rampage topic. Whether it’s significant or not it’s the optics that matter. Someone does some shralping through a load of loose loam for the ‘Gram, someone else takes a hike up Britney Spears or the round the Inners Bombhole and here we are.

I’ve brought tons of tweed valley soil back to my garden abd washing machine over the years

Once got stopped in the tweed valley by a range rover driver and was lectured on how much damage my bike causes. I would have argued but they looked like they had just been on a shoot.

They use these soil-protecting tyre covers elsewhere. Barely a mark on the ground. ?

For avoidance of doubt @mark already invoked his name yesterday so if he does turn up we have something we can legitimately blame the management for.

The last I heard, he’d been charged with child sexual abuse, so I doubt we’ll be hearing from him any time soon

May i ask who?

Hmm, how much soil damage and erosion would be caused by the 15ton Prinoth Raptor 500 mulcher/subsoiler that was laying waste to my local woods recently?

@duncancallum dhP namednaV ekiM

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/whatever-happened-to-mike-vandeman.973410/page-25

@boardinbob think you got wires crossed, I believe that was the incident where he assaulted a minor with a pruning saw about 2011, possibly the urban pump tracks.

To be fair, those trail builders who know how to build trails properly are definitely not responsible for any soil erosion.  They create trails that flow through the landscape and minimise fall-line sections as it is those that really can lead to erosion if water gets in.  But often these trails end at a forestry track/path that is steep and fall-line so that is what the ramblers and other users of the countryside see unfortunately.

I would have argued but they looked like they had just been on a shoot.

Funnily enough Facebook has recently been feeding me a few propaganda posts from the shooting lobby about their ‘responsible management practices’ (aka setting fire to them) on the grouse moors. Wonder what that does for the soil…

For avoidance of doubt @mark already invoked his name yesterday so if he does turn up we have something we can legitimately blame the management for.

I had some fairly robust “discussion” with him on another forum about 15 years ago. From the looks of his responses i would have guessed he was about 15 minutes away from a full on heart attack. Looks like my guess wasn’t that accurate.

Edit, it was nearer 20 years ago. 2005/6 ish.

 think you got wires crossed, I believe that was the incident where he assaulted a minor with a pruning saw about 2011, possibly the urban pump tracks.

More recent incident…

Guess who’s back…Mike Vandeman

@boardinbob that never actually clarifies whether it was sexual in nature. The prevailing thought it it’s more likely he’s been harassing kids, followed one home and the cops were called. Sounds like his MO.

He’s a nasty enough shit without making stuff up.