Looks bloody ridiculous. Especially pictured at Cannock. Dem’s angles are pretty well murgered out. I’m sure it suits some folk.

£ = supply:demand

GBP has weakened by 10% odd vs EUR, so that looks like an exchange rate correction.

Nice nominative determinism Mr Deer. 😉

I’m sure its worth the money and would still love to have one but its just too much cash for me

Chainline, are these frames (Geometron and GPI) optimised for air shocks? Or do they work equally well with coil shocks?

I think it is exchange rate correction. There are options you can choose or not that affect the price, for example the price includes a full frame bearing service and full suspension aftercare package including damage (not cosmetic)

@Wookster not materially, its about 3mm difference overall. I’m running a 35mm stem on that rather than my normal 30mm.

@tooFATtoRiDE You’d have to confirm that with Mojo, but optimised would be a good word to use. One of Mojo’s staff uses a coil, and did at the demo so it clearly works with a coil. Whether it works as well I can’t comment. Never tried it.

Angles work just fine at Cannock, or anywhere really. They angles aren’t driven by stability..which is the common thought, it’s about how they make the bike corner and the way they influence how you ride the bike, deliver reach and affect climbing. Clearly there are benefits to descending too, particularly in maintaining a neutral riding position on steep terrain. But a key driver was to maximise corner speed and traction on flat corners, the theory being that if you get the bike working really well on flat corners it becomes effective everywhere naturally.

How close is the geometry to that of a motocross bike? Just thinking that they’re not designed for going downhill at all but for going around corners as fast as possible.

I’m still wondering about putting a -1 or -2 deg headset in my Spitfire (the headset I originally bought ended up in my new superslack Bird hardtail) but am thinking that maybe the bike needs longer reach to allow sufficient weighting of the front wheel on such a slack bike?

Can’t comment on how close it is, just that the offroad bike was Chris’s first inspiration.

I am lead to believe that the price change is to allow for a small number of dealers to begin offering the frameset and ease the testing load and make it geographically more accessible. Keeping up with test rides out of Mojo HQ is proving a challenge I gather.

That won’t change the option of doing something on local trails with me or similar if that is a desired option but should make it easier overall to get and test the bikes.

The dealer option allows for an easier ‘owner’ configuration as I understand it’s the frame set that will be offered.

chiefguru, I think the reach is key to the overall handling but shouldn’t affect your ability to use a slacker front, that is down to how you ride it/weight it.

Ultimately many DH bikes are running around the 63deg mark and are short reach in comparison to a Geometron.

It will give you a feel for how the front deals with that kind of angle (63deg or below is when it gets really interesting) as slong as you don’t decide that other (possible) handling traits like more difficult climbing unless you position yourself correctly and the possibility the rear may slide more are a direct result of just the HA.

Chainline – where did you see info on the ne DH bike? Couldn’t see it on the facebook links you posted before.

Which info honourablegeorge

[/url]

https://www.facebook.com/onevisionglobalracing/

See if those work

That works 🙂

Wow.

iIs’ going to be very interesting if he/they can post markedly better results or times.

Seen these in the flesh the other day. They are stunning/amazing, a lot of hard work from chris porter and the boys at one vision global racing. Good bunch of lads.
I’m slightly biased mind, as I have a geometron in the longest.

I have a little bias here too…

ION GPI reviewed by bikeradar: http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/nicolai-ion-gpi-the-gearbox-mtb-of-the-future-46472/

Thoughts?

Well I was there…I think it’s a fair assessment by John, tho he struggled with the direction to move the gripshift which made it worse for him. I can change under a degree of load uphill now I’m used to it.

I would absolutely prefer a trigger. HE didn’t bat an eyelid that it had a HA of 61deg and commented on how well it climbed. My std bike was struggling in the mud, the GPI was fine, I had a mud packed cassette. Easy enough to clear but the GPI just went in the garage after.

New batch of Geometrons should be in shortly with Mojo too..

I used to run an Alfine off road and adapted to the (supposed) inability to shift under load really quickly. As its an instant shift you only need the slightest pause and you’re sorted. I suspect the gearbox is similar.

I thought that was a fascinating review. I think the gearbox is the “right” solution for the drivetrain of an off road bike (well, a suspension bike at least – it’s less clear for hardtails), it’s really just a question of whether there is enough investment/acceptance to break through the entrenched dominant position of the derailleur.

Chainline, taking into account the downsides of the gripshift, if you had to choose between normal geometron and GPI which would you choose?

Depends what I was doing I think longbearranger and how often I was riding. If you ride a lot its great as wear is tiny. If I was winching and plummeting, i.e. my local terrain was steep and/or rocky, again I would be happy to plump for the GPI even with the gripshift, as if you dont need to change whilst navigating technical terrain its awesome.

On more varied terrain, I prefer my std bike, it feels a little livelier with the higher anti squat, and th trigger just makes it so much easier to be in the right gear all the timer, but the GPI is by no means bad, its just so much more efficient at evening out the terrain it can be less fun on flatter stuff where the std bike feels ‘poppy and it is harder to change gear a lot whilst braking, weight shifting, changing direction etc, things that are easy wioth a trigger.’

I have to say that a trigger shifter would make it a much harder decision.

It remains to be seen if Pinion or anyone else strives to make the gearbox more efficient and/or lighter That is an area they haven’t focussed on much due to the market being touring and trekking where is less of a concern due to the already high weights carried around.

For me the weight is less of the issue, although lighter still would be nice, its more the high gear sense of drag when the extra transfer gear kicks in. Its barely noticeable in the low gears.

With the advent of di2, wonder how easy it would be to either adapt or come up with a similar system to give a trigger system

Sir HC….patience my child…..

With the advent of di2, wonder how easy it would be to either adapt or come up with a similar system to give a trigger system

[/quote]

Sir HC….patience my child…..

Watching this space with interest…

I wouldn’t hold your breath too hard..they’ve been promising for a few years….they keep promising….

There are loads of DIY electric shifting vids on youtube, perhaps it needs someone from the outside to develop it for them.

It will be worth keeping an eye on Eurobike this year I reckon…..

I’d not seen this aftermarket Rohloff electronic shifty before –

http://www.edsanautomation.com.au/EdsanProducts.htm

Not cheap, not neat, not recommended for off road use.

Nicolai made up some triggers for the Pinion but the thumb pressure required to shift was just too high, it either needs some gearing at either/both ends or an electronic solution. I guess you could argue that electronic takes away a little of the fit and forget ethos but for touring you could charge with a dynamo, for mtb its not a big deal. The question has been why would they do anything when mtb is such a small market for them, perhaps with the advent of e-mtbikes (much as I hate them for everything except people with mobility restrictions) there could be more call..

Chainline,

Many thanks for your comprehensive and thoughtful reply on the merits of the gearbox – much appreciated. Lots for me to think about! I’m not looking to buy a Geometron right now (unfortunately), so have a little time to think things over properly and see what develops over the next year or so.

Cheers
Phil

simons_nicolai-uk – Member
I’d not seen this aftermarket Rohloff electronic shifty before –
http://www.edsanautomation.com.au/EdsanProducts.htm
Not cheap, not neat, not recommended for off road use.

off topic, but from Simons link / dam yous ugly:

Chainline: Di2 pinion. make it happen!

Wouldn’t a relatively easy bodge be to use a heavy duty servo from a radio control model to pull the cables? Maybe mount it somewhere on the downtube.

I used to run an Alfine off road and adapted to the (supposed) inability to shift under load really quickly. As its an instant shift you only need the slightest pause and you’re sorted. I suspect the gearbox is similar.

It is. I’ve started to think that there must be something wrong with my riding that I never find it an issue. I was on my 1×11 bike at the weekend and had far more trouble with the gears on that. The SRAM trigger never seems to be in the right place – needs a big reach to shift and I knock my thumb on it as well.

I think it depends on how you ride Simon, I find myself wanting to change whilst preparing to change direction or whilst braking in a straight line in preparation for either a corner or rise/descent, or whilst winding through trees on undulating terrain, in those instances moving my grip/position on the bars I find awkward. It’s manageable but with a trigger I don’t have to change anything except move my thumb.

As I get used to it, it is much less of an issue ,as I hope I have mentioned, but it still annoys me and is not ideal. Ze Germans have less of an issue as they brake mostly with the other hand!

I do this brake/shift thing on a normal bike by gently ‘ghost’ pedalling as I approach said corner, it should in theory be much easier as there’s no need to pedal with the gearbox…

With the added momentum and publicity the GPI has generated I think if we are going to see the electronic trigger it’s this year….

I know other (small specialists) are also looking at chain driven ‘box solutions (that don’t infringe Honda patents) Although you would think they wouldn’t care or would licence any specific tech….

^^ could you not just run the shifter on the rear brake side, albeit reversing the shift direction which I imagine will be irritating until you get used to it.

Love Nicolai’s and the idea of gearboxes (having not tried one) so watching this thread with interest.

Gearboxes are the future. They have to be. :0) Although I’ve had gripshift years ago but never really got on with it But…

^^ could you not just run the shifter on the rear brake side, albeit reversing the shift direction which I imagine will be irritating until you get used to it.

I often thought that an up shifter on the right and a down on the left might overcome the required extra pressure needed to operate the gearbox? I’d happily run two shifters again with a gearbox over one gripshift.

I often thought that an up shifter on the right and a down on the left

Has been done for Rohloff which is the same ‘action’

https://www.cinq5.de/schaltsysteme/shiftr-fuer-flatbars/

Shift action is too heavy. We looked at that.

Yes you could switch the shifter to the lefthand side without problem. In fact for some people who have used it the direction would be more intuitive, rotating rearward rather than forward for bigger gears. At least tow test riders struggled with rotate back for lower gears initially.

Chainline – (that don’t infringe Honda patents)

I thought that was just a rear mech in a box, any ideas why they arent developing but still stopping others?

thepodge. It effectively was just that. A little more complex but that basically. Don’t know why they stop others, they aren’t in the market and I doubt they’d return.

If you take the mech out of the crud and out of harms way…you get most of the benefits; the wear would be much lower anyway and the action is fine, we now have a big gear range (50t low, 10 high and could have closer ration’s, there is more room across the frame than on one side of a wheel…its very efficient, not massively expensive in theory, simple to fix, light overall. Implementation could be a challenge with different suspensions designs I guess..but it would tick a lot of boxes with the exception of perhaps 10s of thousands of miles of use without any maintenance,

Who knows what will happen…

I do this brake/shift thing on a normal bike by gently ‘ghost’ pedalling as I approach said corner, it should in theory be much easier as there’s no need to pedal with the gearbox…

I was on the road bike today and realise I do exactly the same. But sometimes it’s awkward – for me that’s always been one of the big advantages of Rohloff/Pinion. Coming fast into a corner or the end of a descent you can keep yourpedals level, ankles and wrists dropped and brake as late as possible. Trying to ghost pedal stood up on a rough descent isn’t ideal.

Only when you come out do you need to worry about shifting and can instantly drop as many gears as you need before you start pedalling.

Out of interest, is there any bike bag that could accommodate the Geometron frame without removing the forks?

I doubt the frame+forks would fit the Evoc or Biknd bags with the min 1260mm wheelbase.

I use an Evoc, no need to remove forks. two ways to do it.

Remove front brake and reverse forks. Remove derailleur and hanger.

MUCH easier is just undo front shock bolt, wrap shock in bubble wrap, lift swingarm to reduce length, fit in bag. No problem. I had a slackened longest in no problem like that.

Speaking of which I was testing a modified Longest at the weekend, spot on.

Longer Swingarm running a 222 shock for 175mm rear travel and a good curve. -1 on the head angle and the full 180mm fork as usual.

I loved it, was worried I wouldnt be able to move it around etc but no such problems, I could really load the front and get tons of grip, was great.

The rear set up allowed you to carry great speed through roots and chunder.

It’s not such a great ‘trail’ bike as the std bike. But the idea is basiscally to allow you to either swop shocks (by flipping the chip to account for the length) Or we are also checking how the 222 feels with sufficient volume spacers to increase the progressiveness and reduce the travel to 155mm for normal use. Key is to see if it is possible to replicate the feel with the shorter length shock.

This setup allows you to set the bike up for either the alps or uplifted trips but then easily return it to being a normal everyday trail bike.

The longer travel version pedals just as well as the 155mm version when seated, but the softer initial travel is noticeable when honking out the saddle whereas the std bike is much firmer in that aspect, but thats expected and partly the point.

The longer swingarm will be available as an option. Something to consider of you do big alps trips or even if you are a very big guy.