Anyone ridden the Mojo Nicolai yet?

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  • Anyone ridden the Mojo Nicolai yet?
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    I ride the longer one, I am 5’10”, my saddle is bang in the middle. I think Paul is riding Chris’s bike there and Chris stands up to peddle almost everywhere he means it and doesn’t care too much about the rest. If he is climbing it’s usually up a DH pushup or some other super steep track to get to the next DH so it’s the right angle most of the time for a long steep climb.!

    It’s a specific setup that suits his riding, its nowt to do with the bike being too long……

    The pedalling position, ETT and BB to HT length are very similar to a normal XL bike or a M, longish TT 29er likethe Ion15 (much lower front though) although the calculated reach is much longer. It’s designed for a super short stem so the overall cockpit length is similar to a modern long TT bike with say a 50mm stem.

    The biggest change compared to a ‘normal’ bike you would be assigned to e.g. for me a M, is in the reach which naturally changes your position to weight the front much more significantly, that with the very slack head angle gives alot of front end grip…as previously mentioned the extreme ST angle is so that when climbing you are naturally weighted forward to prevent it wandering rather than adopting a more traditional nose of saddle up arse position. Longer chainstays are to enable that body position to be in the right place to balance grip again between front and back. Lots of length chainstays were tried, this was the best compromise, in their opinion of course. Adjustable, retrofittable, chain stays are in the works…up to 460mm have been used and as short as 432mm.

    The reason CP has set up both the package and the demo offer and holds stock is for serious people to be able to try it (hence the charge), not just those who ‘fancy a go’ he is both confident that people who do try it for a full day on lots of different tracks with personalised set up will appreciate it and that you do need to ride one to appreciate it and be open minded.
    You may not like it, it’s not a crime. It does take a while to adapt toi if you are not used to riding in the way it encourages, or if you don’t want to, then its not for you.

    However, unlike the Pinkbike comments, until you’ve ridden one, the numbers on paper mean nothing and do not define its riding character, other than it is a monster descender. In my opinion its also a monster all rounder and pedals brilliantly (I do have the new Float X2, but the pedalling is no different) it is more than the sum of it’s parts. If you didn’t know anything about it, didn’t look at the HA and rode it around a carpark you’d probably just think this feels like a normal bike..until you thrashed it around a trail and couldn’t wipe the smile off your face…

    It’s interesting that Paul on the Pinkbike review is the first one I think to publish the true HA(s) with the fully customised 180 fork. I think If Chris could get people to try it and not publish any numbers he would, they are a distraction and create alot of pre-conceptions as we can see from the various comments around t’internet.

    plecostomus
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    @joefm no certainly isn’t.

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    Chris is enjoying a short holibob after racing in Ainsa, he maybe even off grid!

    Premier Icon chakaping
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    I think If Chris could get people to try it and not publish any numbers he would,

    He’s charging £200 a test ride so the numbers probably aren’t the main deterrent, to be fair.

    Cheap jabs aside though, it’s a fascinating bike and I’d love to ride one just to broaden my experience, so to speak.

    What are owners using them for? Trail centres? thrashing round the woods? big mountains? enduro racing? DH racing even?

    cokie
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    I saw two of these outside the hut at BPW. Really nice looking bikes! They had very different specs. I was struck by how long and slack they look.
    I wanted to chat to the owners/riders but couldn’t see them.
    I’d love to have a ride on these to see what it’s all about.

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    @chapaking I, and the other 5 people I know who own/run them so far (I know of 2 more orders about to go in) are using them as their all round bike, for everything.

    One is on the South downs riding in super tight rooty, clay, treelined nadgeriness…and going to Chamonix. built robust with not über bling at 31lbs

    I’m using mine for local semi-xc rides, DH trail centre riding, riding in Finale/Pyrenees enduro stylee (but not racing anymore, and big mountain riding like Trans Provence etc with a good amount of pedalling as well as descending.I’m seriously considering selling my ‘other’ ‘local’ bike as this one seems to be such a good all rounder, which is quite a (pleasant) surprise. Mine is quite blingy, but not necessarily light blingy e.g.Hope stuff) and comes in at 29.5lbs with big tyres (MM/Minion)

    One is in Scotland near Torriden/Caingorms, again all round bike, riding to the hills, around the hills..(30.5lbs with metal wheels 8O)

    Another in South West, trail centres, quantocks and again foreign sojourns, an all round bike again.

    Basically it is a very capable trailbike. Maybe a trail bike 911 C4S. Kind of a supercar but can go to the shops and take the kids too.

    i don’t know anyone who has bought one purely on the basis of its descending capability and most have been surprised by the black magic fairy dust sprinkled on it to make it pedal like it does.

    Being more specific I will speculate that those who have will have bought it on it’s ‘cornering’ capability in conjunction with the most sublime suspension. The feedback, control and confidence I get from it on entry, through and exit of any kind of corner, flat, bermed, steep makes me smile just typing it…

    I’m amenable to letting anyone have a bash on mine if we are in the vicinity. The £200 is refundable against a purchase and I think everyone who has ridden one ion a test, and a few who haven’t, have bought one on the back of it..Compared to a Carbon Framed überbike like a Nomad its great value as well as being brilliant.

    I can’t believe I’m stuck at work and not out riding it!

    deviant
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    Now that its built and out there there does seem to be a very much “oh yeah, why didnt we think of that before?”….type of vibe floating around the bike.

    The current fashion for short chainstays does make for short wheelbase bikes that supposedly handle well yet they position the rider perilously close to the rear axle which hinders climbing making the front wander and prone to lifting under power when pedalling….we see riders getting into all sorts of chin on bar positions to make their modern AM bike pedal uphill….nose of saddle wedged firmly in anus etc….

    This bikes longer chainstays seem the obvious solution to getting the rider back in the middle of the bike and well positioned for everything….i like it, the fusion of a DH front end to a trail bike rear end is what i’ve been looking for for ages, shame i’ve just spunked thousands building up a FS trail bike recently.

    It will be interesting to see if the big hitters follow suit or if this bike becomes a freak consigned to the annals of history….anyone wanting to try it on their own bike can do so with headset/angleset cups and a longer fork…as Chris Porter had done with his own Mondraker in the original Dirt interview, just fit a 2-3 degree slackset and if your bike is designed around a 140mm fork find a 160mm one, if the bike already has a 160mm fork then source a 180mm fork….fit the angleset and new longer fork and you should be nearly there….the slackset with original fork installed will drop the front of the bike steepening the the seat tube and dropping the bottom bracket (potentially impractically low)…but by sticking in the longer fork you remedy this by lifting the bottom bracket back up to a usable height, unfortunately you also put the seat tube back in its original position and part of the appeal of the Geometron was a steep seat tube with the slack head angle but its worth a try to see if you like it….if i had some spare cash and a recent-ish FS frame id give this a go.

    joefm
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    What’s the hate with the nomad though? Same old same old with mojo.

    I don’t own one but having ridden one its plenty fast and more than enough for most people and no noticeable difference to mine which is pretty well regarded.

    Porter’s views can be interesting but need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

    duir
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    I love Nicolai’s and my next bike will be an Ion 16 but probably just their standard geometry. What I don’t get though is how people are building up their Ion’s so light? How are you getting an Ion to just over or even under 30lbs? My Helius AC is more like 32lbs and it has a frame weight 0.5lbs less than the Ion. Even with pointless tyres on it’s still heavier. The mojo Ion is miles longer and has bigger wheels than my helius (ie more metal) how can it be 2+ lbs lighter?

    Not saying it isn’t just want a lighter bike that will be as well built and reliable as my current Nicolai!

    plecostomus
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    Weight wise mine is 32.2lb with dx pedals. I run a dual ply folding tyres mavic crossmax xl wheels and full shimano drivetrain and brakes, reverb and 36’s It could easily be done to 30lb mark but it would be putting lighter tyres and carbon bits on which I’m not into.

    My xl nomad before this was 31.5lb
    My xl nukeproof mega 275 before that was 33lb so it’s all pretty close weight wise – but weight isn’t a major factor for me.

    gaz552
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    Isn’t most people’s issue with the nomad that it was touted as the one bike for everything and really it’s more of a mini downhill bike (I wouldn’t be surprised if the new Bronson manages to fit the idea of the one bike for all riding for these people though). And the weird suspension rate/curve means you need to get your sag set up spot on or it feels bad?

    Anyhow, I hope to test a geometron in the near future to see if the geometry and feel suits me.
    As for the industry, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kona was the manufacturer to push their geometry closer to this (though not as extreme).

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    I don’t think there is hate for the Nomad, not from me anyway, merely comparing to that as its stated to be ‘the’ bike and costs a fortune in the high end. Hard not to reference an almost £3k frame shock.
    That gets you a lot more than a frame shock from Mojo.

    Regarding the weight question…careful, and usually expensive, component selection. High end drivetrain (xtr, xx1) light bars, grips, brakes, Cabon wheels, carbon saddle, light stem…it’s all about 60g here, 60g there…but it costs to save the last 1.5-2lbs and its debates Le if it’s worth it. For me I can so I do!

    As an example an xx1 cassette is 268g but an Xt 11spd is 420g on my scales, but one costs £65 the other often well over £200…
    Using Sapim CX Ray spokes saves 100g over a pair of wheels compared to comps but costs almost 8 times as much at £80 a wheel.
    Sella Italia SLR kit carbonio saddle 125g, ‘normal’ saddle 250g-300g.
    ESI grips over lock ons saves another 80g…
    There’s just over 1lb but costs another £350..we haven’t got to wheels, dropper posts etc..

    What do they say, about £1 a gram, it’s a fools game really!

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    The current Ion is not much heavier than an AC, and only about an extra 80g for a Geometron over a std Ion.

    deviant
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    As for the industry, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kona was the manufacturer to push their geometry closer to this (though not as extreme).

    That would make me all warm and fuzzy inside, after they tore up the handbook on geometry under Barel’s stewardship in 2005 to bag a world title and with the current Process bikes doing so well I would love to see this….c’mon Kona make it happen!

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    How are you getting an Ion to just over or even under 30lbs

    lie?

    seriously, my medium Carbon Yeti ARS5 is 28lbs it’s single ring, with Revs and XTR everywhere, ok it’s got a reverb and “robust” wheels, but everyone who picks it up estimates it at about 25lbs…

    sharkattack
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    after they tore up the handbook on geometry under Barel’s stewardship in 2005 to bag a world title

    They didn’t though did they? Barel and his mechanic took it upon themselves to modify what they had by any means necessary because Kona wouldn’t build him a bike. They had one of the worlds fastest riders and he had to break out the dremel to get the bike he wanted. Kona stubbornly stuck to that absolute donkey of a bike until the cows came home. The Operator was about a decade overdue.

    I agree with Chris Porter’s opinions on how timid and conservative the bike industry is. They will bow to public opinion no matter how uninformed that opinion is (super short chainstays everywhere). They will slowly drip feed developments year after year. A few mill here, a degree there. Is it so they can shift a new bike every year that’s a tiny bit different to the last one?

    I’m glad someone has been pushing the extreme end of sizing and geometry just to see what happens. When he’s gone too far he’s written about it and reigned it back in to find the balancing point. I’m not a customer for his bike (not this year anyway) but I appreciate the mad work he’s doing because no one else is.

    The mainstream companies just want to paint every bike dayglo and pay a pro to do big whips and skids on it.

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    Agree with sharkattack, CP is doing us all a favour with this bike!

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    It’s a lot more money than I can afford or TBH would be prepared to drop on a bike, but I have to admit it’s comparable to overpriced plastic MTB and road bikes.

    And I get the feeling its a labour of love rather than a quick buck exercise from Porter. Looks like each sale would be backed up with considerably more staff time than any other bike sale.

    Anyway, it’s better that people with obsessive personalities and large disposable incomes spend their money on MTBs than hi-fi, fancy watches or big game hunting IMO.

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    The last stabs, were long and slack, in fact it kept getting slated in reviews/ firums because the rear was too long !

    The long reach, slacker ha and steeper thing is great

    Would have to ride the Porter bike to see about the longer rear, my hardtail has slidi g dropouts and its much more fun with them slammed forward than back

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    @Nickc why lie? it’s not exactly a headline weight!! You can see from what I posted that it costs a lot. The difference, if even possible, that ANOTHER 1.5lbs makes is huge in terms of difficulty and cost.

    You said you ran a Reverb, it’s over 100g heavier than my Vecnum…xtr isn’t the lightest, the cassette is 75g heavier than xx1…which is why I run xx1 cassette with xtr mech. They are all 1x…tubeless is necessary and at or below 30lbs with an Ion, carbon wheels. My stem is typically 40g lighter than an equivelant at 103g…you get the picture… A really light saddle can save 0.5lbs…I was running a 72g Saevid carbon blade…but then I realised it doesn’t really matter as long as it’s not toooo heavy, pedals well and you like the kit so I even swopped out carbon bars for Ally….

    I think an average build in a Geometron is about 31.5lbs, decent wheels around 1700g, tyres around the 750-800g mark, Xt/xtr/xo1 light brakes like xtr or Hope race x2, carbon bars etc..no one is building with cheap build kit understandably.

    But we digress it’s ace…

    And Chris service is top notch and comprehensive.

    ….you can save another 0.5lb with the right pedals….but it’s not worth it…been there…

    STATO
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    Would have to ride the Porter bike to see about the longer rear, my hardtail has slidi g dropouts and its much more fun with them slammed forward than back

    If you read his dirt articles, the longer rear is about speed not fun. He slates modern short chainstay bikes for pandering to feel over speed. ‘Feeling’ faster through a corner means your bike is compromised for straight line outright speed, so overall slower, or something like that.

    [EDIT: can someone else confirm that was the jist of the article, im questioning my own memory now]

    Premier Icon BillOddie
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    I’m using mine for local semi-xc rides

    Is that riding XC with a semi? 😯

    godzilla
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    31lds without much effort 8) standard length tho.

    thepodge
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    As far as I can tell, everything CP does is in the interest of increasing speed. If speed isnt your fun then you may not like his bikes.

    I’m not very fast but would still like to try a frame out

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    I thought half the downtube was missing for a moment 🙂

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    I can concur…it is about speed and handling not manuals and jumps…it IS harder to manual, but I’ve seen it made to look easy by those I’m sure could manual a tandam, I’m not one of them!

    it jumps well and its “poppy’ due to the suspension, but thats not it’s true purpose. For me. I’m in it for the corners, I love how it gathers speed through a series of corners and carves and how I can retain control on really steep stuff by still weighting the front without too much fear of going through the front door, though it is possible..I did it last year in the basque country..

    @godzilla nice that.

    Premier Icon Rick Draper
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    They will slowly drip feed developments year after year. A few mill here, a degree there. Is it so they can shift a new bike every year that’s a tiny bit different to the last one?

    Santa Cruz anyone 😯

    duir
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    31lds without much effort standard length tho.

    hmmmm………
    My brakes, shock, cranks, dropper and forks are lighter than yours. My bars and stem are the same and my frame is 0.5lbs lighter yet my bike is 2 lbs heavier!

    So it’s all in the wheels and tyres. I shall have to investigate those two things for when my Ion arrives.

    Hob Nob
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    I love Nicolai’s and my next bike will be an Ion 16 but probably just their standard geometry. What I don’t get though is how people are building up their Ion’s so light? How are you getting an Ion to just over or even under 30lbs? My Helius AC is more like 32lbs and it has a frame weight 0.5lbs less than the Ion. Even with pointless tyres on it’s still heavier. The mojo Ion is miles longer and has bigger wheels than my helius (ie more metal) how can it be 2+ lbs lighter?

    Special scales.

    I have a frame that’s over 1kg lighter, and probably what could be considered a very light, blingy build. It’s basically 28.5lbs on the nose.

    Somewhere there is 2-3lbs ‘disappearing’ on some peoples builds, but, whatever.

    That said, it’s not all about the weight if it rides great. Wouldnt be for me though, Whilst I like a longer bike, I know where my preference ends, and even the shortest is beyond it. Plus it hasn’t got a bottle cage.

    gaz552
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    Tbh, I don’t know about other people but I don’t care that much about chainstay length (doesn’t the yeti SB-6 have relatively long chain stays too?).
    What I care about is how it rides, actually feeling centered on the bike.

    godzilla
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    I weighed it at 31, my well respected bike shop weighed it at 31, that was without pedals, (Nukeproof electron)
    I did put some Ti bolts in the calipers so that’s got to save like 1ld right? 😆

    duir
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    Not too obsessed with weight compared to build quality, reliability and geometry/sizing that suits me. I just don’t want to lug around much more weight than my current bike on the endless Lakes hike-a-bikes that play a major part in the weekly Lakes epics!

    Would be delighted with a 30-31lbs Ion but what happens when you fit Lakes proof wheels and tyres?

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    @duir that is with Lakes proof wheels and tyres! Magic Mary snakeskin and and Minion Exo’s for me on DH Derby rims. So about the same weight as the Gw(rim) DT EX471 or a Flow. I’m running CK hubs too so they are not particularly light.

    I’ve ridden the set up on the DH tracks in Finale and in the Pryenees, Coggiola in Italy…

    I did run a Rock’r and razor dual ply but they were a tad heavy….

    sharkattack
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    Right so last night I had my first proper look at the sizing and geometry of the Geometron to see what we’re dealing with. You can find it HERE

    I currently ride a large Cotic Bfe. It felt massive when I got it. I’m used to it now but it’s still a bit of an unwieldy barge. It’s fast and comfortable but I used to like jumps and manuals and had an ‘arsing around’ style of riding and I haven’t really cracked that yet.

    Now, the thing is the Geometron blows it out of the water in every dimension. Even the smallest one would increase my reach by 66mm.

    Lets assume that becasue I’m 6’2″ with long arms that I went straight from the largest Bfe to the longest Geomotron. The increases in size would be;
    Reach- 101mm
    Stack- 51mm
    Eff Top Tube- 51mm
    Chainstays- 26mm
    Bottom Bracket drop- 15mm
    Head Angle- Approx 5 degrees slacker

    I can of see now why everyone was freaking out about it! The thing is a giant. But I am really looking forward to getting back on a modern suspension bike (the Bfe was always a stopgap) and this is the most intriguing bike out there for me.

    I’d definitely do the £200 test day for the knowledge and experience you’d gain, plus the chance to try loads of kit and settings before you settle on anything. No one else offers anything like it. Also if you hate it you’ll be relieved that it only cost you 200 quid to find out.

    But, I would prefer if that 200 quid was deductible from the price of a frame and fork not just the full bike as I’m not feeling the full spec. I’d much prefer to swap the Hope brakes and cranks for Shimano and the Mavics for Hope Hoops. It would be the most expensive bike I’ve ever had so would justify my first proper custom build I think.

    For me right now it’s just something to daydream about. And spend hours searching for the blackest, most murdered-out components available to build the most evil looking, goth bike every made.

    Colour scheme inspiration-

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    I’d kind of expect that for the amount of cash etc you’d be able to at least make some changes to the spec. It’s not unreasonable surely?

    sharkattack
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    Probably but you’re still looking at 6 grand. They’re not going to do you any favours on Shimano XTR with its sky high RRP. I’d much rather shop around for the finishing kit. Who doesn’t get excited by bargain chasing? It just adds to the excitment!

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    @sharkattack Pick up the phone to Chris, he is happy to discuss these things e.g. the charge, the spec. what you may or may not want from him you may also be surprised at what he can do on the other kit e.g. Shimano kit (XT from him was competitive with ze Germans) Hope was outstanding value, when bought as a package from him. I was very surprised. He was unconcerned that I wanted other wheels etc and to use my finishing kit…

    Likewise I did not want a full bike, neither did all the others I mentioned on this thread, all have their finishing kit preferences, but many ended up with a bit more than the base package Frame/Fork/Shock/Seat Clamp/Headset (Dropper is a bargain when bought with it too as well as being rather good I’ve found) but nothing like a full bike.

    Chris is approachable and won’t, in my experience, try to force any wider spec on you. He is of course passionate about the suspension/frame/fork and frankly you’d be mad not to go for that.

    email me if you want a chat, in my profile. CP might be outspoken and opinionated but he knows how to deal with a (potentially) paying customer and appears to be very conscious of maintaining reputation and service (again in my experience!)

    He has been in regular contact since I got the frame to get feedback, offer set up advice, make sure I am happy.

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    @sharkattack You could also try the Longer size it might suit you more for the kind of riding you like.

    as for size, I know I’ve said it here before but don’t judge it by the paper numbers, it doesn’t feel anything like a giant!

    sharkattack
    Member

    Thanks for all the input so far. I don’t want to start bothering them yet as I definitely won’t be buying a bike this year.

    I am already a fan of Mojo and their service. I’ve been a Fox and Mojo customer in the past and also worked for a Fox dealer where we had lots of suspension going back and forth. They transformed my old Stumpjumper Evo and they’ve vastly improved some pretty average Fox products. So yeah, their talents are not in doubt.

    Don’t worry I’m not scared of Chris. I much prefer his brand of passion and honesty to bland sales patter.

    Until I’m ready to go shopping I just hope I bump into a Geometron owner somewhere so I can blag a quick spin.

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    @sharkattack where are you. might be able to put you in touch for a spin…

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