Anyone here go shooting or beating?

Suffolk/Cambridgeshire way – but I ain’t clicking on that NOBs link until you tell me what it is!

An Edinburgh defence? I thought I was doing you a favour!!!!

Ok then

Why? We hunted because we had to, now some do because they want to.
As children we rode bikes because they got us places faster than walking and we weren’t allowed to drive cars, now we can and still we ride bikes. Is that wrong because we do it for fun not becasue we don’t have a choice?

You don’t understand the different between having to do something to survive and wanting to do something for pleasure? Sometimes the two are linked but in this case it’s not possible to make a moral case for shooting, unless you base it on a comparison with factory farming which is every bit as bankrupt.

Your analogy with riding bikes is hilarious. And utterly irrelevant. But funny still.

and how did you get into it?

if you need to ask etc.

Perhaps arrange an STW shooting day?

WCA with a shotgun 😯

yossarian – as mentioned elsewhere not everyone involved is a Toff or a ‘witless, forelock tugging sycophant’ (although that is the traditional image). Most of us just enjoy being outside in beautiful countryside with good company and a shared interest in field-sports / field-craft where we come away with a good appetite and something for the pot! but hey we’re all entitled to our own opinions!

Helios -NOBs is the National Organisation of Beaters and Pickers up!

A bit of honesty is needed that’s all. Shooting is about the social hierarchy. It’s no different from golf or fox hunting. Except you have to shoot animals. Thats the truth.

except you’re talking out of your arse. i know people that shoot for the pot that would have nothing to do with the fox hunt or tugging their forelocks. just ordinary working blokes that are happy to source their own food.

My minor problem with hunting is based on the experience of meeting a few out on the moors – the clients had massive attitudes ( staff were ok ) etc – have met some ok types too but it definitely doesnt float my boat to pay to kill animals – I have shot clays and thats ok in my book…

However each to their own – My biggest issue with shooting estates as I see it is the organised killing ( ILLEGAL ) of birds of prey in the name of protecting shooting estate businesses.

I know that not all game keepers are bad but I bet a lot of them are ordered to do it and even tourist drawing white tailed eagles in scotland are not immune – however scotland is punishing landowners there now by withholding grants etc if raptors are found suspiciously ‘dead ‘ on their land. In england / forest of bowland the issue with hen harriers is interesting. Even recently up in the peak that case of a sparrowhawk…

I am a keen RSPB member and the stories / phots I have seen of poisoned raptors and other ‘vermin’ ( foxes / badgers etc ) and even peoples pet dogs are horrific. I know 2x wildlife officers in the police and they all have stories of being unable to prosecute due to lack of evidence/resources or simply society / courts not being willing to act.

Bear that in mind that if you pay to shoot then you are party to this.

I think that shooting live animanls for sport is frankly an anachronism that deserves to die out like bear baiting. I have no issue shooting clays etc.

Why anyone would feel the need to pay in some cases many 1000s to shoot game birds I have no idea. Maybe its just me. I dont buy the whole ‘ it gives people in the countryside jobs ‘ arguement either. Set up other buisiness – farm / diversify.

Its a complex issue.

paul

Helios, last day of the season is often given over to the beaters to shoot if they have a gun. That’s the time when someone may let you have a shoot, it was my route to the “blood sport”.
Roasted a lovely cock pheasant on Sunday, made stock with the bones and there was enough left over for a curry this week. Pheasant is really good in a curry.

Shooting hens on a moor? I’d rather shoot clay pigeons. Or cans. It’s more difficult.

We sure are JE, we sure are!

Talking out of my arse trailmonkey? I think not.

Kill it cook it eat it.

Talking out of my arse trailmonkey? I think not.

but you quite clearly are, because as i pointed out to you……

i know people that shoot for the pot that would have nothing to do with the fox hunt or tugging their forelocks

sometimes, not everyone conforms to the stereotypes that would help to confirm your worldview.

Clay pigeon shooting is fun and rough shooting is even better as you get to take the rabbit/pigeon/pheasant home and have a tasty meal….got to love the blinkered views on here, can’t remember who’s post it was but which Pillock tried to say golf and shooting are about social hierarchy?…..some people at a shoot enjoy the whole Tweed ensemble but most people are very normal and wear jeans….I find it just as ridiculous when some penis on this forum spunks several thousand on a bike capable of descending Ben Nevis but rides around the Surrey Hills instead…..complete with hydration pack, armour and motorcross style baggies etc etc…each their own I suppose?!

sometimes, not everyone conforms to the stereotypes that would help to confirm your worldview.

You are right, not everyone does. Unfortunately for you the majority do. If you don’t then bravo!

You don’t understand the different between having to do something to survive and wanting to do something for pleasure? Sometimes the two are linked but in this case it’s not possible to make a moral case for shooting

im happy for shooting to be banned as long as everything else that has an impact on any environment or ecosystem is also banned unless it is essential for our survival

your green beans from kenya, plasma tv and fancy-dan aluminium bouncy bike all have an impact on animal life.

I can’t do that in London

I’ve lived in the country all my life and at no point have I ever had the desire to go shooting/hunting.

My brothers ex-girlfriends family ran a farm that diversified into providing shooting days for wealthy folk (£4k a day). If they didn’t get many pheasants out in the fields, the owner would scare a load of ducks off their lake so the toffs could shoot them, pretty much from point blank range. And thats a ‘sport’ is it?

Ever fired a shotgun? I went clay shooting not so long ago (a friends farm) and the fact that you can wave the gun about in a different direction to the clay and still hit it goes to show the amount of skill required. I was bored rigid after about an hour, maybe I should have pointed it at some wildlife instead to spice things up…

Additionally you can often here the local farmers and their bitches riding about on their quads at night shooting rabbits in the name of pest control. What a load of bollocks.

I’ve little time or respect for anyone that enjoys doing it, regardless of how they might justify it.

im happy for shooting to be banned as long as everything else that has an impact on any environment or ecosystem is also banned unless it is essential for our survival
your green beans from kenya, plasma tv and fancy-dan aluminium bouncy bike all have an impact on animal life.

I do like a proportionate response. 🙂

Zulu, I ride in Wild Park (Council owned), Stanmer Park (also council owned and happen to work for…the council. Other than this I occasionally get to ride at Leith Hill (National Trust). I’m also vegetarian, so agree with your point about chicken. Funny you should make the parallel, does one example of unethical behaviour qualify another?

Your point about be somehow scrounging off shooters seems a little weak. If a wide trail is there for working 4x4s to get out and do maintenance (see Leith Hill above) then again, you fail to make a solid point. I hardly think the wider trails I ride on are made by people simply going out to shoot things.

I think that shooting something that neither poses a threat or can defend itself to be unnecessarily cruel. To do this for entertainment seems worse to me. You don’t attempt to address the issue, rather simply try and pick holes in my statements.

I obviously can’t change your mind, nor would I want to. But don’t deny what you are doing to be a fair fight.

You don’t understand the different between having to do something to survive and wanting to do something for pleasure? Sometimes the two are linked but in this case it’s not possible to make a moral case for shooting

Unless you’re a Vegan, the moral necessity argument fall’s flat on its face

There is no reason whatsoever for anyone in the UK, or most of the rest of the world, to eat meat – no lack of dietary protein from other sources, Millions of people worldwide survive with perfect health without eating meat.

We eat meat because we like it, and because its socially acceptable to do so. Anyone in western society who easts meat does so entirely for pleasure, with no necessity, and no survival based need.

Edit:

Herman, the roads out on to the moors in the uplands of the UK are almost without fail there for shooting access, and a great many “legacy” paths and trails in the Northern half of the UK were built to take people to and from the big shooting estates, hell, a nice big lump of the rail network was built for it – we, as riders benefit from this on a daily basis, we also benefit from getting to ride on lovely heather moorland, which is maintained in a healthy status almost entirely for shooting. add in the patchwork quilt of hedges and woods that, again were there for shooting, and the sport has shaped our own sport in a way like no other.

I think that shooting something that neither poses a threat or can defend itself to be unnecessarily cruel. To do this for entertainment seems worse to me.

Firstly, see my point above about the sheer lack of necessity of eating any meat, we kill animal purely to facilitate the demands of pleasure and entertainment on a daily basis. Personally I think there’s a lot greater honesty and integrity in killing an animal yourself, than paying someone to do it, and in my experience and opinion, the true unnecessary cruelty is in intensive farming methods, done only to satisfy our demand for cheap meat – if all meat had to be shot, out in the wild, then I’m damn sure it would cost a hell of a lot more, and we’d eat a lot less of it.

I think that shooting something that neither poses a threat or can defend itself to be unnecessarily cruel.

Eating without shooting it would be cruel.

Unless you’re a Vegan, the moral necessity argument fall’s flat on its face

Oh come on. The moral argument against shooting animals for sport is cast iron. It doesn’t rely on veganism. T

There is no reason whatsoever for anyone in the UK, or most of the rest of the world, to eat meat – no lack of dietary protein from other sources, Millions of people worldwide survive with perfect health without eating meat.

Quite right, but we aren’t having an argument about eating meat are we?

We eat meat because we like it, and because its socially acceptable to do so. Anyone in western society who easts meat does so entirely for pleasure, with no necessity, and no survival based need.

Again quite right, but that’s a different argument.

There is no argument for shooting animals for pleasure in the British countryside that holds up to any kind of scrutiny, moral or otherwise. Pretending that there is fine but you are only fooling yourself. Which is also fine.

There is no argument for shooting animals for pleasure in the British countryside killing or breeding any animals for meat or dairy products that holds up to any kind of scrutiny, moral or otherwise.

FTFY

Yossarian, tell me one difference, morally, between shooting a pheasant, and killing a chicken!

Hah! You haven’t fixed anything for me.

Of course there’s an argument for breeding animals for their products, there just isn’t one that confuses controlled compassionate slaughter with shooting for pleasure.

Yossarian, tell me one difference, morally, between shooting a pheasant, and killing a chicken!

I’m probably going to say the pleasure derived from shooting. As you’ve already said a number of times we dont actually need meat. Doesn’t that make enjoying the kill even more mawkish by your own standards?

Suppose you’re more than happy to ride along the tracks that they put in to get their evil 4×4’s there?

no

footpath’s yes.

Of course there’s an argument for breeding animals for their products, there just isn’t one that confuses controlled compassionate slaughter with shooting for pleasure.

I don’t support any form of ‘hunting’ that is just about bloodlust, such as fox hunting and some pheasant shoots and that, cos it’s not about killing for food, it’s about killing for sport. Deal with your inadequacies rather than trying to ‘prove’ yourself by killing stuff.

But isn’t there something innate within us that drives us to hunt? Go to Norway, and it’s part of their cultural heritage to hunt, and it’s not really a ‘sport’ in the same way it is here. It is part of their tradition, and a way of obtaining food. Here, it’s more about the social aspects and being able to brag about how many birds you bagged etc.

No problem with a small group out to kill a few game birds for food and that though. As Z-11 sez;what’s the difference there to killing chickens bred for slaughter?

You don’t really have to go shooting though to get pheasants. Just pick ’em up off the motorways.

WCA with a shotgun

Please, no…. 😯

I think there are alot of people making presumptions about something they have little real experience of, however that will never change (and I’m as guilty, but on other topics). One thing I do know is that people will never agree on this one so it’s best to ‘agree to disagree’ before this gets ugly and has to be pulled by the mods!

Here, it’s more about the social aspects and being able to brag about how many birds you bagged etc.

maybe for the gentry it is but your average country dweller (not domiciled townies) it’s very much part of the way of life, produce gets shared around be it fruit, game, vegetables etc. they get swapped or given away with no money changing hands.
this certainly happens in my parents village where most people welcome a rabbit or brace of pheasants left hanging by their door.

maybe for the gentry it is but your average country dweller (not domiciled townies) it’s very much part of the way of life

Yeah I understand that, and don’t have a problem with it. It’s the ego-boosting hunting parties what as someone sed above people pay loads of money to go on, that I object to. Cos the primary purpose is not to get food. It’s for ‘sport’.

The Norwegian hunters I spoke to are quite against the British Hunting Party thing, cos they see it as unnecessary killing. They believe in working with nature, not breeding game speshly like they do here.

Few months back my neighbour gave me a small rabbit his friend had killed that morning. That’s about killing for food, not pleasure. I have no problem with people enjoying the hunting process, cos as I said surely it’s something innate in us to want to hunt, but just shooting birds to beat your mate’s tally etc is pathetic.

Made a right nice little pie with the rabbit; mushrooms, drop of red wine and that. Lovely.

Helios where are you? if you’re near to me, Oxfordshire/Warwickshire Border, then I’d gladly sort you out a days beating to see what its like on a small shoot.

I beat on a few shoots the (big Posh shoots and small local shoots) I enjoy taking my dog out and getting him to do what he was bred for.

My son and grandson (only nine months between them) both beat with us and use the money they earn to buy presents for everyone at Xmas.

Other than maybe having a chip on your shoulder about toffs or whatever, what exactly is the problem people have with shooting?

I’m no expert, but if I was an animal I’d rather cruise about the country free range for a while then get shot than not live at all/live in captivity to ultimately meet the same fate.

I’ve done a bit, but be warned, following my tale you won’t want to be a beater.

I didn’t really want to, been anti the whole ‘establishment’ hunting thing ever since i can remember, but the father in law, ex military, colonel, insisted he was going to make me a ‘man’. Although I’ve never hunted I’ve always had a keen interest in guns and shooting (target) so it turned out i was a fair shot and must confess a certain thrill and guilty pleasure as I brought down my fair share of pheasants. Everything I shot either I ate or someone i knew did.

Anyway all was well until one particular shoot when a bird broke and flew along the tree line, i fired, probably to low if I’m honest and I guess others did, anyway there was this howl from the woods just off to my left, turned out a beater had been shot and in the nuts of all places, so wouldn’t show us, it was a ricochet, i assumed mine and put my hands up to it and never shot again.

However the worse bit was the dressing down I got from the colonel, not for shooting the bloke, but for putting my hand up to it, apparently one doesn’t admit to shooting beaters, bad form and all that and some time later it turned out it probably wasn’t me it was more likely the guy to my right who shot at an angle more likely to have hit the victim, but nevertheless that was it for me, never again, bad enough folk get shot, worse there’s culture of not copping to it if it’s you.

A salutary tale to you potential beaters – I wouldn’t if I were you.

Some hunting shooting fishing is deliberately cruel such as deer hunting / fox hunting with dogs – deliberately done so as to prolong the chase and of no utility whatsoever.

some such as deer shooting isn’t and some such as pheasant shooting is just completely false.

The birds are bread for shooting and only released a few weeks before hand. Its just live target shooting.

You cannot lump all hunting together – some has few bad effects and some good ones but much is barbaric blood lust.

I will get flamed for this as a no nothing townie – however we all know that this is true its just some pretend it isn’t so as to satisfy their blood lust

I can shoot the cat from 10ft if I’ve not beaten off for a week.

Used to beat when I was about 14/15, £5 a day and free beer at the end of the day wasn’t bad at all. Plus I learnt a lot from the old boys about wildlife, the great outdoors (TM), and the odd smattering of survivalism / etc.

I still get a few birds now and then from a mate who shoots, because I’m not (legally) allowed a gun any more 😐 – a decent local butcher would have a game contact. Like some clubs, they sometimes can be quite cliquey, so you may spend a while finding a shooting club you feel like you’d spend time with.

The birds are bread for shooting and only released a few weeks before hand. Its just live target shooting.

Really TJ… OK, then How many weeks?

How would that compare with the number of weeks between hatching and slaughter of your average free range chicken? (6-8 weeks intensive, 12-14 weeks for free range or organic… note, thats total age!)

What would be an realistic achievable return rate (ie. If I release 1000 birds, how many would I expect to have shot by the end of the season on 1st Feb?

C’mon, you want to show that you’re not a know nothing townie… show me? its just a couple of fairly easy questions for you, impress me 🙂

Tell you what… one final question… how many pheasants are released annually on the Queens famous Sandringham estate? go on, take a guess…

Shooting birds is for morons.

(Unless you eat EVERYTHING you shoot)

Possibly not the best way to bag a bird.