Any roofers/builders in? Attic/roof timbers

I would like to put some boards down in the attic for storage. At the moment there are just the 3″x2″ ceiling joists spanning between supporting brick walls, which are just about ok for walking around on. I’m going to put in new 6″x2″ joists between these, with some spacers so the new timbers don’t touch the ceiling below.

There’s this peice of timber going perpendicular to the joists, nailed to each one, and also nailed to the wall plate at the right hand end (out of sight, under the pile of insulation. It is in the way. I can’t figure out what it’s for – possibly was just used to hold everything in place whilst the roof was being built? Seems a bit too substantial for that. I can’t imagine it’s providing lateral support as a tie beam to the wall plate – at the left hand end, it just butts up agains the party wall – it doesn’t go through. There are three of these lateral timbers in the attic, one per span between the supporting walls.

Anyone got any ideas why it’s there?

If the pics look unusual (I’ve no idea what’s usual) the tiles and rafters were replaced about 10-15 years ago, but looks like they re-used the somewhat oversized purlins which are hanging off the new hip rafters*.

*I’ve been trying to learn roof timber terminology. Could well have got this wrong…

I’m not a roofer or builder, but I’m having a house built and seen a few in-progress. Doesn’t look at all structural – it would be notched or attached using hangers if it was part of the roof structure rather than simply nailed on. Probably put there by the roofers to assist in the original build.

That’s my current thinking – but it was probably put in when the house was built in 1940, long before hangers were around, and it uses very substantial nails!

IANAR but,

First rule of of diy roofing is never remove timber. So well done for asking. Try the screwfix forum, might get an expert response there (but also a hell of a lot of guff and trolling, that place is hilarious!)

But I don’t mind having a guess. I suspect that timber does help during construction, but also it’s a lazy (but adequate, or in other words efficient) version of noggins. It’s preventing bow in the timbers – the ceiling joists that is. It can’t prevent twist as noggins would but it can prevent bow which the ceiling boards or laths cannot. Remove it and potential for cracks in the ceiling. If I’m right, then replacement noggins could be fixed in place instead BEFORE removing it.

*ps also trying to get timber member naming right, and you’re doing fine by my reckoning but this could be the blind leading the blind. I cannot comment on whether it’s reasonable to fix 6×2 joists in your loft for example. I hope you’ve considered where those timbers are placing their new loads and that the structure can take them.

Not a roofer but i have done lots of building work and put a suspended floor in the current house attic.

Those timbers are not structural they are something to nail the plasterboard to.

They are ceiling binders. They are there to to assist with preventing deflection in the ceiling timbers. I would advise against removing them without propping ceilings at mid span. You can remove them and then tie them to the floor above with a row of noggins once installed if the timbers are the correct size.

Gauging the span from the photo, I’d suggest 6×3 c24 if resting on wallplate and Joist hung on to a trimmer at the other end. Could be overkill just for storage, but I’m not going to tell you that. What is the span?

It’s not providing vertical support to the ceiling joists, or it would be attached by something other than nails in tension. It would also have the major axis vertical. It might be intended to provide lateral restraint to the joists, either before the ceiling boards were fixed or because they are not considered adequate, but in that case I’d expect some diagonals. Bracing all the joists together still allows them all to deflect sideways. They might be providing a tie to the rafters in the hipped end, but not anchored because the person who put them in didn’t know. Roof timbering is an art on its own, and I wouldn’t like to assume anything is or isn’t load bearing until I understand all the load paths and connections.

The purlins don’t look very well connected to the hip (but maybe just not visible in the photo). On a traditional purlin roof, the purlins support the rafters, so there’s no lateral thrust at the wallplate and the ceiling joists aren’t acting as ties. The purlins have to be supported on struts. Those purlins are the right sort of size for that, but it looks as if the joists may be used as ties.

Thanks all!

To answer a couple of the questions – the new joists are going to sit onto solid brick walls – inner skin of the external wall at one end, and an internal brick wall at the other. Span is 3.7m. The 2x6s I am planning to use are slightly undersized if it were a habitable space, but for storage it will be fine.

The purlins are nailed through the hip rafter. It’s a pretty poor connection tbh, but I can’t see how I could fix or improve it easily unfortunately. The purlins are propped at mid span, so they are supporting the rafters.