And so it begins…? "mechanical doping" first?

Has she denied there was a motor in the tested frame? I thought that was already incontrovertible

no denial afaik.

As to the team, personally think if someone is found cheating (chemical or mechanically) the whole team (rider included even if they change teams) should be banned from that event for the next x years

There is a little problem in this case as it is a national event. I believe that they have already said that the Belgian team won’t be penalised as a team

In these situations delays tend to be legal rather than technical, the UCI will want to ensure that what they say at a press conference will stand up to any legal challenges.

Ghostlymachine, are you STILL refusing to accept that a motor has been found in a bike, and as for solar charging why is that ridiculous? KERS charging?

What I actually meant to say with regards Di2 was that I “me” hadn’t used it successfully, I found it costly and inconsistent, and I kept breaking it, Which would be fine if I didn’t have it to pay for.

And yes I am a bit of a liability when out and about, if you saw some of the shit I’d gotten up to you would “maybe” understand why.

aracer – Member
Do you seriously think they don’t have any evidence and haven’t found a motor? Presumably you think the most important thing to do at this point is a press conference presenting the evidence to silence doubters like you?

I remain on the fence, like most rational people, until the evidence is proven.

I don’t think that my position is in any doubt as to where I stand on this.

You seem to “just believe” which is fine, if you like that sort of thing.

Bloke who makes them speaking to Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport:

“In the last years, I’ve sold 1200 bike engines. I laugh when I read the Gran Fondos results.”

i’ve been riding bikes over 30 years, compete regularly and know that Di2 isn’t used successfully in CX

What I actually meant to say with regards Di2 was that I “me” hadn’t used it successfully

You are back pedalling so furiously there, I reckon you must be assisted by a secret motor of some kind.

Well I “Thought” She’d basically admitted it, Then blamed some one else.

A date has yet to be set for a hearing, Thats prob when they will display their evidence. I’m not sure pacifying Naysayers is at the top of their agenda right now.

And i just Believe, that evidence has been found and they are “Yet” to present it.
Some folk rely on people sitting on fences, hearing the evidence and being rational. What happens then is a good defence lawyer abuses the privelidge of other folks ignorance and stupidity and rips their unwillingness to commit one way or the other to shreds, leaving “Reasonable Doubt”

That way the person involved gets to carry on, and having gotten away with it once well whats the problem, it’s not like anythings gonna happen? Is it.

Have you watched cyclocross

No, otherwise I’d be on the other forum =)

So what you’re getting at is: Changing bikes is normal and it’s also normal to not recognise the bike you’re on?

As you were then 😉

Slight edit – I still think that’s really weird, but then I have a compulsion to recognise/place everything I touch and see

No, I don’t think your position is rational at all. A rational person would accept there’s a motor when the UCI have reported they’ve found a motor, and the rider involved has made statements admitting that there’s a motor. What other possible cirumstances could there be which leads to such statements being made? Demanding evidence is a position taken by conspiracy theorists.

There is a little problem in this case as it is a national event. I believe that they have already said that the Belgian team won’t be penalised as a team

I personally think the team should be banned for the next 2 world cups – this would push some responsibility back onto the team management and riders to not overlook sudden brilliant rides – think back to the doping days and it was usually some individuals decision and nothing to do with the team, until the next one got done

Neal, i havent used it successfully, and i dont have a team van and my own mechanic. i’m not paid by sponsors to use it AND most importantly, I cant pedal backwards………. thats what kicks the motor in.

😛

Some folk rely on people sitting on fences, hearing the evidence and being rational.

Damn those rational, evidence based thinkers.

That’s no way to get a lynch mob organised.

Nobody is trying to get a lynch mob organised – it’s just that some of us accept that when the UCI says they’ve found a motor that means they’ve found a motor.

I wont be convinced until the B-test comes back positive.

I’m with bikebuoy on this one. If it’s proven to be true then it’s the end of a young lady’s career, one that she’s probably devoted most of her life to so far. Let’s see what the UCI come up with.

Nobody is trying to get a lynch mob organised – it’s just that some of us accept that when the UCI says they’ve found a motor that means they’ve found a motor.

I don’t disagree with that.

It’s just that I’ve never seen anyone criticise other people for being rational and relying on evidence, as if that’s a bad thing that should be discouraged.

I wont be convinced until the B-test comes back positive.

isn’t that the BB-test?

MrBlobby, I also agree with Bikebouy on the young girls career, it is sad, She has no doubt devoted a good part of her childhood to conditioning herself and performing at the highest level for a good few years.

At some point though it looks “To Me” this is how i’m understanding it, That she hasn’t quite got the edge, maybe not got quite enough capacity or the mental aptitude to push through and take the win. Some one has taken the decision to assist performance.
She may well have ALL of the above and maybe just a case of “Everyone else is doing it so why can’t i”
It may well be a case of mistaken identity.

But the UCI have announced the find, I thought i’d read that at least, and they are setting a date for a hearing.

If she is clean and hasn’t raced on the bike then MAYBE there could be an element of the unknown leading to unreasonable doubt. But the UCI have foreseen this type of excuse and changed the rules in 2013 for instances just like this.

The trouble is, the person claiming to be rational and relying on evidence isn’t.

I think your concern for the young lady’s well-being is admirable bikebuoy, after all its unlikely this was all her idea and hers alone.

And I’m sure she’ll sufer far more of a backlash in her native land than a British rider doing same.

But while she’s notionally “innocent until proven guilty”, most of us accept that the UCI appear to have a found smoking gun and been given a ridiculous excuse for it.

no, she’s admitted it. I can read too. And as for the rest of it, just spend 5 seconds thinking (actually thinking) and it should be painfully obvious why it’s ridiculous.
and the rest of the world finds it no less reliable or damage tolerant then mechanical. And far more consistent. Just more expensive when you do break it.

Maybe you need a mechanic.

What strikes me as odd is that if these motors are a real “thing” and if they are so beneficial, then the engineering companies making them stand to make substantially more money by actually putting them in consumer versions of the bikes rather than in just a handful (??) of pro bikes.

Given how f-ugly most bikes with an electric motor are, surely there’d be a massive market for tidy little motors hidden in the seattube which are so powerful that they can provide enough W to propel one elite cyclist away from another?

Battery tech etc is so limited in most other forms that I’m simply impressed that some niche engineering company has come up with a way of delivering power boosts in a compact and light form.

Maybe i do, Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

which are so powerful that they can provide enough W to propel one elite cyclist away from another?

I would have thought it was more a matter of keeping the athlete out of the red longer so that they can attack with greater effect.

You can buy them – it was mentioned up there (and of course they’ve just been given the ultimate bit of marketing, I wonder how much they paid her to get caught? 😈 )

http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/produkte/vivax-assist-4-0/vivax-assist_4-0.php

Not cheap though, even compared to other e-bikes

What strikes me as odd is that if these motors are a real “thing” and if they are so beneficial, then the engineering companies making them stand to make substantially more money by actually putting them in consumer versions of the bikes rather than in just a handful (??) of pro bikes.

Good point.

Can I assume from now on that 80% of the people quicker than me on Strava are motor-doping?

Well as they have confirmed that its the bike she was racing it does mean she was technically cheating.
As to whether it was intentional is a different matter but now its going to be hard for her to prove not.
I do wonder that if the bike needed a battery and she didn’t have one fitted , for example, she would be guilty. Or just carrying extra weight?

But the UCI have announced the find, I thought i’d read that at least, and they are setting a date for a hearing.

I guess that’s it. The UCI have found some evidence that they believe points to a rule violation. She’s been “charged” with a violation but not yet found guilty.

Let’s just keep in mind that this is the career of a young person we’re speculating over.

That she hasn’t quite got the edge, maybe not got quite enough capacity or the mental aptitude to push through and take the win.

I’d be a bit surprised given her age and that she has a lot of years to develop ahead of her.

larkim, ebikes are more for touring and have pretty big gear boxes and even bigger batteries, one of these devices are meant to be hidden in the frame, concealed, and i can only imagine are fairly small.
Probably reliant more than anything on Battery status. Gel batteries could be utilised as oposed to a more conventional Solid State battery pack, slipping 3 AA’s down the Chain stay via a hatch with a made in Taiwan logo embossed underneath would give it away.

These concealed devices “I think” are more of a one time hit, on that bit where you need to get away on a climb, or when your hanging out, I dont actually know how they work, but imagining they cant last long.

Like most things, Oh yes its got a 3 hour battery life, then its flat in 20 mins, but i think everyone racing on e-bikes, is a good idea, level the playing fiels back out a tad.

Gazetta dello Sport reporting on electromagnetic wheels as the latest approach to mechanical doping.

That she hasn’t quite got the edge, maybe not got quite enough capacity or the mental aptitude to push through and take the win.

or been sacrificed to take the heat off someone else…makes you think.

mattsccm – Member

Well as they have confirmed that its the bike she was racing it does mean she was technically cheating.
Link please

Apologies if already mentioned, but for those who are interested, Cyclist magazine did an article on these devices several issues back. If I get chance later I’ll see if I can find a link.

From what I can gather from what I’ve seen of that it appears to be a load of rubbish by somebody who doesn’t understand electromagnetics very well (or they’ve been taken in by somebody doing a deliberate spoof). You can’t just make a motor with the rim of the wheel without something for it to work against (not one providing any usable amount of power).

What strikes me as odd is that if these motors are a real “thing” and if they are so beneficial, then the engineering companies making them stand to make substantially more money by actually putting them in consumer versions of the bikes rather than in just a handful (??) of pro bikes.

A quick read of the specs of the device in question says it supplies only 200W (which AIUI is a good deal less than most consumer e-bikes), the battery only lasts for 60-90 mins (which isn’t much of a ride) plus there is no speed control over the motor, it’s just on or off. So not great for an e-bike, but ideal for giving you a bit of a boost during a race!

Gazetta dello Sport reporting on electromagnetic wheels as the latest approach to mechanical doping.

Gazetto dello Sport appear to be taking their stories from this thread then

For pure amusement I suggest that his brake blocks where magnets and there was a current passing through the rim.

Well done Tonto, you’re a source now 😆

I really wish her the best, I hope she stays stable and focused and has the support she needs around her.

Let’s just keep in mind that this is the career of a young person we’re speculating over.

I think this is a very important point to remember, even if it turns out she was deliberately cheating, we need to remember that she won;t have done so in isolation, there will have been external influences, assistance and possibly even some level of pressure, and at 18/19 she, like many young people will have felt that pressure very strongly, and people make all sorts of stupid decisions when young that they later go on to regret, she may be an adult, but only just and growing up as a top level athlete is a terribly difficult thing, even when you’re winning.

While I’m sure she may deserve punishment, and maybe a lengthy ban, it IS important to recognise that a lot of blame will also lie with the surrounding individuals that both enabled this, and are responsible for that pressure*.

As Bikebouy says, I hope she gets the support she needs as this will be tough for her, and far lesser things have lead to terribly tragic outcomes.

Throw the book at her (them) by all means, but make sure you’re there to deal with the bruises too.

*I mean come on, what respectable team/coach/support network would allow a young athlete to make such a bad decision, let alone assist them, or worse, push them into it? It’s not something she could have done alone, the team/support are as much to blame as anyone.

UK legal ones are only 250W and 200W is plenty – especially if used more as an assist given these are going to be fitted to bikes ridden by people with higher power output than most normal e-bike riders. 60-90 minutes of power, you don’t have to use it the whole time (if you use that just on the climbs, that would be a pretty long ride). It’s hard to tell exactly how it’s working, but they mention stuff about it sensing pedal revs and only working in a given range, which suggests it does modulate the power rather than just throwing it all in – the on-off switch is probably just an add-on to the usual e-bike stuff.

I have to admit it’s quite tempting in a way – if it wasn’t so expensive it would be a laugh to have on the local chaingang 😉