Am I Being Unreasonable? MTB Court now in session!

You be the judge! James and Dave have different perspectives on what their group ride is about. Who is right?

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By stwhannah

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Just text/whatsapp the group if running 5 mins late.

If they don’t wait, they’re not mates.

Depends on previous history. A random, uncharacteristic, late comer is fine. Pathologically late people can get in the sea.

A one off is fine and can be accommodated. chronically late?  Irritating to say the least

I used to ride with folk like this.  “Meet at 10 to start at 10:30”.  “Ok chaps I’ll meet you at 10:25 and Ill be ready to ride” would be my response.  Often folk would not be there at 10:30 even or would arrive then ” I just need to change my tyres before we start” meaning no riding until 11.

I have zero tolerance for faffage.  Arrive on time and be ready to go.  Those who are chronically late are being very rude.  What they are saying is that their time is important, yours is not.  One chronically late chap we started telling him an earlier start time – he would still be late ie we wanted to start riding at 10, we would tell him quarter to.  He wouldn’t be ready to ride until quarter past.

Its incredibly rude and disrespectful

+1 on
occasional issues = life happens.
regular lateness or delay = I’m leaving.

And I’m certainly not accepting anyone behaves like the President of Faffganisatan at the start of rides.

and it makes me five minutes late

We’re supposed to leave at 7pm

I’m almost always there by 7.10pm and we don’t set off until 7.15pm. Waiting until 7.20pm

A) so twenty minutes late not five.

B) if it’s consistent, move the start time properly, or accept you can’t break the laws of physics and that regardless of what you want, you haven’t got the time you need. Expecting other people to wait consistently is unfair, just ask them to make it a 7.30 start in future so you’ve got enough time to deal with the kids etc and don’t need to be late.

but it seems to have turned into ‘meet at 7pm, leave at 7.15pm’.

See B, neither of you are children, agree to put the start time back and save yourself the hassle and annoyance.

We’ve tried setting off without people and getting them to catch up with us,

Rule #1 always applies. Unless they’ve told you they’ll catch you up, (and you know the members of your group who will) you rather deserve to get cold and wet waiting on a hillside for them instead of in the car/Cafe other warm dry place you arranged to meet.

20 minutes late, accept that you’ve missed the ride and do your own thing.

and five minutes doesn’t seem like much for everyone to wait when it makes the difference to me getting to ride, or not.

aka “My time is more important than theirs”. Nice.

Sometimes they set off without me and send me a location tracker to catch up with them, but I don’t really know my way around and I struggle to figure out the fastest way to where they are.

Bugger off, if you’re only, as you say, five minutes behind, then it’s not like they’re going to be so far ahead that they’re difficult to find and there’ll be a bewildering plethora of route choices to get there.

Depends on the type of ride: if it’s a serious training session, then leave promptly. Fun times with mates? The usual car park/meeting-spot chat nonsense would give plenty of time for late arrivals.
Horses for courses, ultimately.

I don’t get why “it’s only a social ride” isa an excuse. Regardless of the type of ride, you’ve agreed to be there at a certain time. And let’s not forget that some in the group may need to start on time as they need to be back by a certain time for other commitments, so waiting for you is not inconsequential to them.

James strikes me as a “they’re always late” kinda person, and they piss me off, as it’s essentially selfish. Guilty!

Very much depends on the ride. A ride with my close mates, none of us care if anyone is a bit late – we’re basically just hanging out and it happens to be on bikes. Any other ride then I’m going to be there and ready well on time. Not really bothered about other people running a bit late tbf though, as long as it’s not wet and cold where we’re waiting.

the President of Faffganisatan

😂
I’m using that one from now on.

If you’re consistently late I’m not waiting.
If I’m going to be late I’ll catch you up.

Yep – if you say “meet at 7, leave at 7.15” then each individual rider is responsible for getting there with the time they need – someone driving over needs time to get the bike out the car, put on riding shoes, helmet etc and needs to accommodate that. Someone riding to the start is (or should be!) already good to go. And then you leave on time. Not 15 minutes after that.

**** ’em. If people consistently can’t arrange their own lives to get to spot X at meeting time Y, they need binning off.

You don’t turn up to a flight expecting them to hold the plane; you get there on time. If you can manage it for a plane or train, you can manage it for a bike ride.

This is obviously not happening in Germany or, heavens forbid, Switzerland. There are rules!

Dave should obviously buy an e-bike as thats the only way he can catch riders that set off 20 mins before him.

NBD winning!

Riding with a club = usually big groups so leave bang on time. Can’t wait for everyone.

Riding with mates = who’s to 20 minutes!?

If it’s an evening ride close to rush hour, which need’s driving to then yeah lateness is to be expected. There’s getting back from work chance of delay then getting to the trails chance of delay.

I used to ride with someone who’d always be late, then need to back early whilst being the one to constantly need to stop to faff/tinker. I’d just let them go and carry on riding, but the group were nicer than me.

People habitually showing up late can get in the sea, or rather naff off and ride on their own. Social rides the same as anything more formal – I’d say probably worse as that means showing your mates you don’t respect them either.

It’s incredibly rude, disrespectful and basically shows that they believe that others peoples time isn’t important, but theirs is. As someone else mentioned, these people are capable of being on time when it matters – to catch a plane, train, cinema etc.

(Occasional, “genuine issue” driven lateness is different – what I’m talking about above is those who are usually / always late. It’s pretty easy to tell these types of people apart.)

Agree a process; meet at 7 set off riding at 7:15 or whatever, that way there’s a bit of wiggle room. Being late occasionally is life, being late consistently is rudeness.

President of Faffganisatan

This is my new favourite thing.

It’s incredibly rude, disrespectful and basically shows that they believe that others peoples time isn’t important, but theirs is.

This. I’ve thinned out the people I ride with as a result.

Manners, consideration and respect are all free. If me and my time and the commitment to our ride isn’t worthy of that then I’ll see you around.

Do you want to ride with friends or ride exactly at the scheduled time.

LOL i think i’d have a lot less riding mates if you lot were people i rode with.

I went to meet a bunch of mates last week on Friday “meet at 12” was the plan. I turned up at 11.55 having ridden there. Called mate who said “we’re just leaving Reading now, we’ll be half an hour”..

Did i care… not really… I was a bit bored waiting yes… but we had a cool ride with mates 🙂

Do you want to ride with friends or ride exactly at the scheduled time.

It’s entirely possible to do both

punctuality annoys, i have a friend who could make a 2 hour ride 5, dont ride with him often anymore. too much of a ballache,

he was meant to meet another friend yesterday at 10am [for a work quote] rang at 1030 to say he’d be 11, turned up at 1150

Yeah James, you’re not 5 mins late, you’re 20 mins late. And if that’s a regular thing, YTA, as they say on mumsnet.  You need to recalibrate your expectations of other peoples time.

As a generally solitary exerciser there’s not enough there to convince me either way.

I’d agree with those that make the distinction between occasionally and regularly late we used to have couple friends that were always late for every meet up, it became so annoying we ending up just avoiding them because it was so disrespectful, sometimes an hour plus late. But if someone is late every now and then because of a genuine reason but is normally on time then fine, it happens and I’d wait, But if that is the case you get ready to go ASAP, no messing about.

Sounds like there is a compromise to be made on this one. Starting with not Dave not getting there until nearer 7.15 if he’s not interested in pre ride faff.

Its incredibly rude and disrespectful

I’m not sure it really is, it’s more thoughtless unless they’re genuinely doing it out of spite, I suppose.

We used to have a tight-knit, regular riding group including one guy who was habitually and predictably always late. It was occasionally exasperating, but mostly just mildly amusing and an opportunity to chill out and chat until he arrived. We put up with it because we were mates, not tightly-wound time nazis and on balance, the pleasure of his company out-weighed the occasional annoyance.

It all reached an entertaining finale when he managed to miss our flight for a group mountain biking holiday out in Spain and seemed surprised that the plane hadn’t waited for him. It was genuinely just part of who he was / is.

I’d be less tolerant in a less tight-knit group to be honest, but really life and mountain biking is too short to get wound up by stuff like this. In a work context, which I’ve experienced, it’s a lot less forgivable because it’s unprofessional, but for casual group rides, I’m not really that fussed. Unless it’s really, really cold or someone I don’t like 🙂

Forever riding alone…

I’d hope I wouldn’t find myself in that position as I don’t generally plan to do stuff involving a fixed start time with people who have a persistently casual attitude to timekeeping. I like to make sure I’m on time for other people, it’s just who I am.

If I want to see them, it’s probably easier to enjoy their company after they’ve been late getting to the pub rather than after I’ve been left standing around in a forest car park.

Occasionally shit happens and you accept it. I voted for James (this time) on that basis.

If it’s a pattern of behaviour then it’s no longer shit happens, it’s bad planning, disrespectful, and would lead to resentment quickly. particularly if others are compressed at the other end.

And Pres of Faffghanistan is going into my lexicon too. Is there a special place in hell reserved for the person that needs to service part of their bike before riding and then also needs everyone to empty their packs to find the right sized Torx to do it?

Is there a special place in hell reserved for the person that needs to service part of their bike before riding and then also needs everyone to empty their packs to find the right sized Torx to do it?

There was a guy in my university MTB club who was like that. Turns up to the start – can you just hold on while I service the suspension pivots? Oh I bought some new brake pads in the way over, will you just wait while I fit them?

It was also the early days of adjustable suspension so at the top and bottom of every hill there’d be more fettling while he optimised the suspension for the next bit of trail.

Just like most of the others above, I don’t mind the odd one-off late arrival, but I tend not to plan stuff with people who are known to arrive late – or when I do, to make allowance for that and
a) tell them an earlier start time

and

b) STILL allow for them arriving late

Starting with not Dave not getting there until nearer 7.15 if he’s not interested in pre ride faff.

The problem with this is it starts a lateness arms race. The perpetually late then doesn’t arrive until 25 past, ready to ride at 7.40…

I’m the one who’s usually late in our group, which I fully get is annoying.

The others don’t start their faffing until I get there, while I arrive ready to go and wait for them to get changed..

It seems to work out

. I voted for James (this time) on that basis

Ohhh, there should be a poll? I assumed this was just a general nonsensical conversation starter (welcome on my train for the morning)

I can’t see the poll though, mobile or desktop views. chrome on android 13.

The problem with this is it starts a lateness arms race. The perpetually late then doesn’t arrive until 25 past, ready to ride at 7.40…

Depends why they’re late, late for everything always? Yes you’re right, they’ll not be on time regardless.
Late because 7pm doesn’t actually fit round their day (and despite it not being great for at least as many people, has been pushed by one member of the group so they can be home in time for love island/it’s 7 because it’s always been 7 etc)? and pushing back will likely solve the problem.

I’m badly organized.

I still expect groups to leave on time whether I’m there or not.

Social ride, all the more reason to get there 20min early and socialize.

Rush hour, trouble getting out the house, didn’t do your chores for your parents, it’s not the groups job to organize a X.00 for X.15 style start time to accommodate you, tell your boss/kids/OH/parents/hamster that you need to leave 15min early.

Surely in STW land no-one should be trashing the environment and should be turning up to the ride on their bikes and ready to ride anyway 🙂

I can’t see the poll though, mobile or desktop views. chrome on android 13.

The poll is on the article linked in the first post (or rather in the post created when the article was published)

The poll is on the article linked in the first post (or rather in the post created when the article was published)

Hmmm, it distinctly wasn’t but now is, wonder if the page was failing to load fully because of doddgy lner WiFi.

I have a riding pal who is frustratingly never on time. He lives really close to the meet up point, maybe 5 minutes ride, I have a 12 mile ride to get there.

Been many a cold rainy morning where after 15 minutes stood shivering that I have then sent the text saying “too wet and cold, I’m off to do my ride”.

I then get the moaning afterwards about not waiting another couple of minutes. To be fair, his wife ran in the mornings, he’d be at home with the kids. She would come home and shower before he could leave….but still annoying in the winter!

“And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it’s sinking.
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you’re older.
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.”

Time is a real asset. It has a value. I am not thinking “time is money”(that’s a different Pink Floyd song) … more that it is not acceptable to take someone’s time away from them. Time is the scarcest resource known to man. You can’t cheat it or buy more of it. You won’t live forever, or ride bikes forever. Live life like you gonna die, cos you’re gonna.