Almost as alarming as the trams – Scottish Gamekeepers Association

I see you’ve revised your claim on what I said Ernie – I suppose my money is safe 😉

Would that be where you told us that you know what its like being Black Ernie?

Enjoy the car crash all:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-value-has-a-human-life#post-2879672

nope.. ernie’s deffo £50 up..

and monsieur zulu is coming across as using a BBB defense as a last resort in the face of overwhelming support for the opposition..

I’m still waiting for you to back up your claims on the missing poisoned Sea Eagles TJ

ernie_lynch – Member

Zulu-Eleven recently accused me of posting the ‘most racist’ post he had ever seen on STW ? ….I kid you not.

Zulu-Eleven – Member

‘most racist’

No, I didn’t – and if you can show me where I used the exact quote you’ve claimed above – ‘most racist’ – I’ll give you fifty pounds

Zulu-Eleven – Member
I honestly think that that is the most patronising, offensive, racist thing I’ve ever seen written on STW.

Seems pretty clear cut to me. You owe Ernie £50

Zulu-Eleven – Member

I’m still waiting for you to back up your claims on the missing poisoned Sea Eagles TJ

Can you read? Click on links? Clearly not

Morning TJ, early start? I’m in your corner for this one. There have been a number of estate workers done for poisoning raptors recently. I’m not at liberty to give any more details than that really, but it’s definitely going on, where I am at least.

Morning – early indeed – off to work shortly.

There have been a number of estate workers done for poisoning raptors recently. I’m not at liberty to give any more details than that really, but it’s definitely going on, where I am at least.

Well I hope you are prepared to be told by the fantasist with the call sign :

“I call bullshit on your statement, and unless you can back up your claims, I’ll keep calling bullshit until you do”

It’ll hurt ernie, but I’ll cope. At least I’ll be in good company.

Yep, in the absence of Dan Hannan’s Number 1 Fan, I’m calling bullshit on any claims. And you know what? I’ll keep calling bullshit until you back them up.

I believe the SGA that a small young child is at risk from an eagle.

Those who disbelieve them are welcome to place their unattended toddler out on the lawn in places where eagles fly…

youtube clip (not for the squeamish)

check the comments too for some good balanced moral outrage

There have been a number of estate workers done for poisoning raptors recently

But that’s Not what TJ claimed, was it?

Do people have a problem with understanding that

There have been a number of estate workers done for poisoning raptors recently

is not the same thing as saying that

This year gamekeepers killed “a few” [ie, more than one] White tailed Sea eagles

Both are specific statements, but they’re really not exactly the same claim, are they – the first, is undoubtedly true, there have been a number of prosecutions – the second claim, the one made by TJ, is an exaggeration, and there is nothing to back it up, its simply not true, and I think that if you’re going to make a claim that castigates and criticises a group of people, you should be able to back it up.

I’ve been through the data, and the last recorded case of what TJ claims to be a common occurrence was a single case from over a year ago – as a result of which, I think he’s not telling the truth, I’m not implying a motive for him making it up, people can decide on that for themselves…

Now, TJ could have accepted that he was exaggerating a little, he could have accepted that his claim was a little over the top – but he decided instead to charge on straight up the middle… he even chose to “imply” that the only known Sea Eagle casualty this year was a poisoning case, despite the SACA categorically stating that it was not! Never back down, eh?

Tj repeatedly ‘sets himself up’ as an omnipotent distributor of ‘facts’ and I think its perfectly fair for me to call bullshit, where TJ is bullshitting.

Do people have a problem with understanding that

I think what most people have a problem with is not that TeeJ might overestimate raptors killed by gamekeepers by one or two. Rather it’s your blundering into the thread with all the grace of Dan HanNAN’s fat arse just to fight with him. As ever, you derailed the thread and frankly, this effort seems a tad desperate.

Thing is Dan-HanNAN’s-Number-1-Fan, noone really cares whether TeeJ has overestimated the numbers by one, two or three. We all know it happens to a greater or lesser extent, and that it is wrong. You couldn’t give two shits either – you’re only concerned with arguing the toss over the difference between “one”, “two” and “several” with TeeJ (who’s at work by the way). Why the desperation? It’s a bit embarrassing really.

I could say this is the most trivial, desperate, attention seeking thing I’ve ever seen on STW…but to be honest, I still haven’t got over ernie’s most racist, offensive post ever…and I’ve been uncomfortable with the use of hyperbole since I read it. Has he been banned for it yet? I’ve reported it multiple times now. 😯

Franky Dan-HanNAN’s-Number-1-Fan, you’ve been PWNed here. Let it lie, you’re just embarrassing yourself.

never mind all that dd, why aren’t you heading down the m5 for the stw dartmoor ride today ?

No, as someone who went to college and studies with a load of gamekeepers, on a Game management course, and who worked as a gamekeeper himself, and counts a number of gamekeepers as friends, I cannot see any reason why I’d show interest in the thread, or take offence at TJ’s claims…

As for the comments on Ernie’s post , I’d suggest you learn about the comma, and what it means in a sentence, particularly its effect on separating clauses 🙄 Now Just think what Ernie would have said if the evil Dan Hannan told us that he “knew what it was like being black”

you’ve been PWNed here. Let it lie, you’re just embarrassing yourself.

Indeed – couldn’t help wondering if his favourite film is “A Few Good Men”, or how long Ernie will have to wait for his £50.

I’d suggest you learn about the comma, and what it means in a sentence, particularly its effect on separating clauses

Ha ha. Jesus, mate, honestly, leave, it. ****, commas, now? You’re, getting, more, desperate, by, the, post. Just, leave, it, now, Dan. When, you’ve, been, pwned, stop, digging. Actually, no, keep, going. It’s, hilarious. 😀

Zulu-Eleven I’d suggest you learn about the comma, and :roll:it means in a sentence, particularly its effect on separating clauses

What about a full stop?

TandemJeremy

Even so they did well this year raising a good few young. The gamekeepers did get a few tho

🙄 😆

Gamekeepers repeatedly kill raptors and its a major issue. The favorite way is pesticide laden baits. Dozens of known incidents each year, many prosecutions over the years. some have even got jailtime. Dozens of known incidents a year and thats a tiny % of the total incidents. Glenogil estate has lost all its EU subsidy for its actions and other estates will follow if they continue to kill raptors. Scum pure and simple

My dad was involved for many years in prosecuting gamekeepers for this

What did your Dad do?

Should be “involved in trying to get prosecutions……”
Various things in the voluntary environmental lobby – from chairing stuff to organising protection for nest sites to trying to persuade the politicos and cops to take wildlife crime seriously. Serious senior man – but a pragmatist not a fundamentalist. Goes back to the 70s when we were trying to save and nurture the last few peregrines and ospreys. I used to spend part of my summers guarding peregrine nests.

Fines used to be a few quid if you got prosecutions. Now gamekeepers have gone to jail and it has costs estates hundreds of thousands. Hopefully an estate owner will do some real time – that will really sort ’em out.

last few peregrines

I had no idea numbers were so low, I’ve just checked and apparently 1,402 breeding pairs at the present, according to the RSPB.

I’ve got a very good mate who is a pretty successful pigeon racer and whinges about peregrines, hinting darkly that he “knows what to do”. Totally unacceptable imo. And the geezer is a real animal/wildlife lover and all – I’ve known him to go out of his way to save an injured wild bird or quickly and humanely dispatch it to avoid unnecessary suffering . Unfortunately champion racing pigeons are worth a lot of money.

And I remain hugely unconvinced concerning the guilt of peregrines – pigeon racers are always looking for excuses why their birds don’t come home, some of which are quite frankly pathetic imo. I suspect that in the case of peregrines, like most predators, they go for the easiest kill – which ain’t racing pigeons. So whilst a peregrine might have no problem taking a racing pigeon, why go for something which flies high at 50/70 mph when there are far more slow easy to kill pigeons ?

Peregrine do eat racing pigeons. The racing pigeons fly straight and fast but the peregrine is faster :-). Wild pigeons have some savvy and try to dodge – thats what I was told.

I don’t know how many pairs of peregrines it was down to (dozens I think)but it was considered worth putting “guards” on nests to stop egg collectors and pigeon fanciers from taking the eggs. Peregrins can top 100 mph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vfLDIvBGXE

Raptor conservation / reintroduction is a real success story in scotland – it realy bugs me that he gamekeepers kill and appreciable number still. enough of the ea eagles to make a difference. Killing the white tailed eagles is just wrong. its a fragile marginal population.

Off course there is another aspect to this. Is the effort and money spent on a few pairs of big birds worth it? The sustainable population of Sea Eagles in Scotland will always be a bit marginal

The racing pigeons fly straight and fast but the peregrine is faster

Not necessarily. Racing pigeons can fly faster on the horizontal than a peregrine, and for much much longer. Peregrines are only faster on a dive, and racing pigeons tend to fly very much higher than ordinary pigeons anyway. All in all racing pigeons have got to be harder work for a peregrine, so why bother when there are far more than enough slow easy pigeons ?

Pigeon racers mostly shun white racing pigeons on the grounds that they are more easily spotted by hawks/falcons, complete bollox imo. Peregrines can easily spot a pigeon whatever colour it is, and they certainly wouldn’t go for one a couple of miles away because its white colour has grabbed its attention.

The racing fraternity is full of myths and old wives tales. I’m sure that peregrines occasionally take a racing pigeon but I don’t believe it’s the problem that some reckon it is. Some pigeons just get lost or hit objects, and don’t come home, it doesn’t meaning that a peregrine has taken it or that it’s flown into someone else’s loft and been “stolen”……another common claim.

Wild pigeons have some savvy

All pigeons are unbelievably thick……..believe me.

Ok – comparatively savvy 🙂

Think there was a study recently on the Peregrines nesting on Derby Cathedral that found despite being surrounded by town/feral pigeons (easy meat you’d think for a Peregrine) their diet was quite varied and included amongst other common species there was Oystercatcher, Snipe, Woodcock, Lapwing….. Made interesting reading considering the town pigeons on offer a short distance from the nest

myths and old wives tales

A bit like some of the discussion in this thread.

Take away Gamekeepers and you would lose a lot of raptors as the habitat they require is one that is maintained by the keepers. Some good reading here,

http://www.gwct.org.uk/about_us/news/1270.asp

Like anything else there are good gamekeepers and bad, good estate owners and bad. The good far outway the bad but it’s the bad that attract all the headlines. And of course only the gamekeepers would put down poison bait, you’d never get people that are anti shooting doing this sort of thing to entrap keepers. You might also want to spare a thought for keepers that live in houses that come with the job. It might not be so easy to do what is morally right when you face losing your job and your home.

A ‘gamekeeper shoot’, classy 🙄

myths and old wives tales

“A bit like some of the discussion in this thread”.

What “myths and old wives tales” are there on this thread then ?

Is this one of them : “you’d never get people that are anti shooting doing this sort of thing to entrap keepers” ?

The all keepers bad myth that is encouraged by threads like this.
“you’d never get people that are anti shooting doing this sort of thing to entrap keepers” ? Are you telling me that nobody would ever try anything like that?

The all keepers bad myth that is encouraged by threads like this.

Who said that all keepers are bad ?

Sounds like a myth to me.

Ok, point taken. How ever comments like,

Game keepers regularly poison raptors

,

Gamekeepers repeatedly kill raptors

and

Scum pure and simple

are not particularly helpful and I would say unfair to the majority of gamekeepers who are good guys doing a lot of good for the countryside, including raptors, as shown by the Langholm Moor example.

Stephen – I did make the point its not all estates earlier. However the grouse shooting estates are the worst on the whole and you need to read up a bit more about Langholm

However its a fact that gamekeepers regularly kill raptors with poisoned baits. You only have to look at the stats and the prosecutions – which will only be the tip of the iceberg

“you’d never get people that are anti shooting doing this sort of thing to entrap keepers” ? Are you telling me that nobody would ever try anything like that?

And that is utter nonsense. Find one shred of evidence that has ever happened.

And that is utter nonsense. Find one shred of evidence that has ever happened.

[Ahem]

Surprising though this may seem to some, this forum is not a court of law and thus it is possible for people to potentially present knowledge without supporting evidence.

and

‘Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence’

[/Ahem] 😉

it is possible for people to potentially present knowledge without supporting evidence.

stevenmenmuir didn’t “present knowledge” he simply threw in the suggestion as a possibility.

Here is an example of presenting knowledge without evidence :

thegreatape – Member

There have been a number of estate workers done for poisoning raptors recently. I’m not at liberty to give any more details than that really, but it’s definitely going on, where I am at least.

Why don’t you pay attention Zulu-Eleven ?

Instead of spending your time looking for commas.