All those wingeing about public sector workers and pensions

RichPenny – Member
I earn more than that and don’t even have a degree

People think a degree is a right to riches, your entitled to earn more if you have a degree.

Thats not the point – you are claiming as we cannot show a direct casual link then it didn’t happen.

We cannot show a direct casual link between an individuals lung cancer and their smoking – however we know its there

Why are you quoting someone else to me Zulu-Eleven ?

To cover your embarrassment ?

BTW, did you see your political guru Dan Hannan on Question Time tonight ?

🙄

What’s the rolling eyes for Z-11 ? It’s unusually for you to be lost for words.

So anyway tell me, why are you quoting someone else to me ? If it’s not to cover your embarrassment, why are you doing it ?

Do you know any private sector skilled experienced dementia care specialist nurses on this forum? or legal qualified welfare counsellors with up to date knowledge of the benefits system?

A lot of families look after their elderly relatives simply out of love or a sense of duty. As with raising children, experience helps, but I suspect most of us have the relevant skills.

Information on benefit entitlements is available on the internet, and I am fairly certain there is a calculator / test exercise. I’ve helped a few people by sense checking tax credit forms, and while you need to review what you are claiming regularly, its not that complicated.

dmjb4

That is simply laughable.

Now I’m starting to feel sorry for dmjb4 😐

That won’t do ernie. Getting soft in your dotage? I know a man who can help

Will he do it simply out of love and a sense of duty ?

enfht – Member
Or try to do something about it
Yeah like strike and screw the country even more, great idea. Well done, they should make you a moderator you’re so clever.

After the strike, why don’t you let the kids stay at home and YOU go to school?

dmjb4 has a point though, take my job for example anyone who has got their first aid badge when they were in Cubs can do it. Then read up a bit on the internet, plus they once put a Mr Bump plaster on their brother. Best of all they did it for free.

Can’t speak for the public sector in general but the NHS certainly knows how to throw a lot of resource at projects.
We sell and deploy [non clinical] equipment into all sorts of businesses including half a dozen NHS trusts.
A simple project update meeting will normally inc 2 from our side and 2 from the client’s side, unless it’s an NHS trust.
They tend to come in mob handed, 5,6 or 7 of them for a simple update, the assistants seem to have assistants. If the meeting is at our office, it’ll often be a night out for them too.
It’s also quite off-putting that they’ll often send a totally different team to subsequent meetings
The contrast is really quite startling between delivering into an NHS trust Vs a normal business.
They aren’t very keen on post project parties though 🙂

TandemJeremy – Member
M6ttf
Do you know any private sector skilled experienced dementia care specialist nurses on this forum? or legal qualified welfare counsellors with up to date knowledge of the benefits system?
POSTED 9 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Question with a question?

I asked you to provide proof that no one in the private sector could carry out your (or your saintly other half) duties as well as you.

Can’t speak for the public sector in general but the NHS certainly knows how to throw a lot of resource at projects.
We sell and deploy [non clinical] equipment into all sorts of businesses including half a dozen NHS trusts.
A simple project update meeting will normally inc 2 from our side and 2 from the client’s side, unless it’s an NHS trust.
They tend to come in mob handed, 5,6 or 7 of them for a simple update, the assistants seem to have assistants. If the meeting is at our office, it’ll often be a night out for them too.
It’s also quite off-putting that they’ll often send a totally different team to subsequent meetings
The contrast is really quite startling between delivering into an NHS trust Vs a normal business.
They aren’t very keen on post project parties though

I found quite the opposite when I worked for the NHS, travel and overnights were scrutinised fiercely, in fact it was too much and quite a pain in the arse.
As for meetings, any private sector company could save a fortune in middle management time costs just by removing powerpoint off their PC’s.

You would end up swapping guns every five minutes and being shot!!

Watching Weaponology on Quest. I think I’d go for the M4 carbine.

I found quite the opposite when I worked for the NHS, travel and overnights were scrutinised fiercely, in fact it was too much and quite a pain in the arse.

To be fair, it is quite rare for them to come to us

The turning up ‘mob handed’ statement still stands mind and I’ve not seen a PP presentation for a few years now 🙂

My experience of the NHS (over 12 years) was gross but easily recifiable inefficiency.

When I started training as a nurse in the mid nineties I worked weekends at a BUPA hospital; everytime we changed a dressing it had to be costed- how many swabs, how many saline pods etc so a precise costing could be given to the patient.

When I left the NHS in 2008 it was still the case that ward nurses knew very little of the cost of anything they used, a requesition was filled in and things arrived.

When I began working for a major wound care company I subsequently found out that a dressing we routinely cut in half on ICU when the right size wasn’t available cost £60, so that was £30 wasted there and then (once opened dressings become unsterile and useless to others).

While I’m not suggesting nursres become accountants, I never really saw waste being taken seriously in the NHS with regards to those who actually accounted for a large portion of it.

Flame away

Ben – weird because back in the 90s we went to individual ward budgetting with costs of everything available and known – indeed the process started in the 80s.

I certainly knew where to get the price of everything from and we had comparisons of spending between wards in the early 90s.

When I left the NHS in 2008 it was still the case that ward nurses knew very little of the cost of anything they used, a requesition was filled in and things arrived.

When I began working for a major wound care company I subsequently found out that a dressing we routinely cut in half on ICU when the right size wasn’t available cost £60, so that was £30 wasted there and then (once opened dressings become unsterile and useless to others).

Why would, or even should, a nurse give one consideration of the cost of a swab or dressing, or anything for that matter? This is the job of managers. If I was to be unfortunate to find myself in ITU I would like to think the staff there would use whatever they have, and not be constantly thinking “mmm, this costs a bit more than that one, should I use it or not???”

Flame away

OK.

Despite your own personal research in the matter, extensive research by others has shown that the British NHS is one of the most cost efficient healthcare system in the world. And in fact private healthcare provisions in the US are the least cost efficient in the world.

NHS among developed world’s most efficient health systems, says study

“Not only was the UK cheaper, says the paper, it saved more lives. The NHS reduced the number of adult deaths a million of the population by 3,951 a year – far better than the nearest comparable European countries. France managed 2,779 lives a year and Germany 2,395.”

A little more research required on your part maybe ?

TJ, I wouldn’t dispute that band 6 and ward managers, those involved in the ordering process, were aware of costs and made attempts to save money through product choice.

I’m talking about staff nurses being unaware of the cost of products and how seemingly small things, a dressing dropped here and there, sterile gloves, poor selection of NIV mask at £60 a time, very quickly add up

A little more research required on your part maybe ?

I’ve not done any research Ernie, I’m talking about experiences, things I saw with my own eyes.

And I’m not slating the NHS, I’m saying it could be more efficient than it is

I’ve not done any research Ernie

Ah, that explains it then.

Here’s another research from a year earlier :

UK health system is top on ‘efficiency’, says report

Probably best to go by the opinions of those who have researched the subject rather than those who haven’t ?

Ben – thats down to poor management locally. The information was available and was used where I worked right down the levels. Indeed cost controls were tight

Cheers for a sensible response TJ

Probably best to go by the opinions of those who have researched the subject rather than those who haven’t ?

Ernie, is there a particular reason that my 12 years in the NHS and the things I observed are not valid in your eyes?

Well yes, because you haven’t, by your own admission, done any research into the matter.

Your “could be more efficient” claim is a complete red herring. Is there a single area of human activity where there couldn’t be any improvements ? I can’t think of any.

Your “could be more efficient” claim is a complete red herring. Is there a single area of human activity where there couldn’t be any improvements ? I can’t think of any.

Drinking beer in the Speedwell Bar.

I hate all this bickering.
I hate the idea that people are going on strike when negotiations are on-going, I would have liked to have seen the strike called once there was some final agreement made, not before, a kind of pre-emptive strike strike.

A school near me has had the teachers go on strike because they are switching to an academy and they fear there might be changes to their contracts.
Surely its best to see what any changes are before going on strike.

I think the whole situation is reminiscent of the 70’s and the end result of all that is a few years later a new government comes in and is set on an agenda of breaking union power.
I see if this carries on a future conservative government coming in hell bent on breaking the public setor unions.

I would have liked to have seen the strike called once there was some final agreement made

I’ve never heard of a strike being called after an agreement had been reached. What’s the idea of that then ?

I’ve never heard of a strike being called after an agreement had been reached. What’s the idea of that then ?

To learn ’em good and proper for…. 🙄

If you call a strike that affects other people then you are not going to be highly thought of and all apathy will be eroded.

In general the issue for most non governmental workers come back to the pension arrangements as everyone pays for them. I am a company accountant and I have worked on final/defined benefit schemes and when you review them you sit back and say ‘shit iceberg right ahead’. If we do not grasp then nettle now we will be crippled in generations ahead.

Basically, I dont see the point of going on strike when you dont know what the final offer is.
As there is an on going negotiation I find the strike is premature

So people shouldn’t go on strike until they’ve agreed the terms of whatever they’re striking against?

That’s as good as the ‘unions should be impartial’ rubbish on the other thread!

No what Im saying is that whilst youre negotiating a deal I dont think you should be going on strike, its not helping matters and simply entrenches both sides.
Same as government saying thats the last offer etc, none of it helps and just enflames the problem.
If negotiations break down and the “final offer” is unacceptable then you have something to consider whether you want to accept it or not and go on strike.

The government has been attacking the public sector since it came to power, and then criticising any defense. I’m surprised strike action has taken this long.

I think its fair to say that ernie is in an argumentative mood.

Despite the fact I saw repeated acts that ‘I’ deemed as being wasteful, because I failed to write a research paper on them my experiences are null and void, apparently inadmissible in a discussion.

Is there a single area of human activity where there couldn’t be any improvements ?

No there isn’t, and that is why despite your paper showing the NHS to be very efficient, it could be more so; that is not a ‘red herring’.

Basically, I dont see the point of going on strike when you dont know what the final offer is.
As there is an on going negotiation I find the strike is premature

I think you’ll find then that the first offer will be the final offer.

When I began working for a major wound care company I subsequently found out that a dressing we routinely cut in half on ICU when the right size wasn’t available cost £60, so that was £30 wasted there and then (once opened dressings become unsterile and useless to others).

Given the number of dressings used in hospitals, might it not be cheaper to buy a lot of the biggest dressings and cut them to size rather than smaller numbers of the small, medium and large? I work in a clinical department, and that’s what we do. It’s cheaper, which is why we do it.

the first offer is very rarely the final offer, as has been seen already the government has moved from its initial position.

Given the number of dressings used in hospitals, might it not be cheaper to buy a lot of the biggest dressings and cut them to size rather than smaller numbers of the small, medium and large? I work in a clinical department, and that’s what we do. It’s cheaper, which is why we do it.

That would have been seen as an infection control issue; once a sterile package is opened and not used immediately you cannot guarantee its sterility at a later date.

If an infection occured and a root cause analysis was carried out, were it to be found the the dressing had been opened on day x but then used y number of days later that would an issue.