All those wingeing about public sector workers and pensions

I’d prefer it if the Tories had the stones to cut my pay, but they dont so we get all this crap instead

I wonder what all the naysayers on here would say if after paying their mortgages for 25 years were told sorry but you haven’t actually paid your mortgage off like you thought you had and you will need to carry on paying for another 6 years ,increase your contributions by 30% etc etc

That’s not whats happening though, is it? In the real world, the nearest analogy to the union protection racket would be someone taking out a cheap tracker mortgage, and then complaining when rates go up and insisting that their neighbours pay the extra.

Quite rightly, the neighbours would say get lost. Which is what the majority of the country are telling the union fatcats at the moment.

dmjb4 – Member

Not just about pensions, as already stated it is about the cuts being made elsewhere that have been introduced with 3 weeks notice in the case of my profession. The mistake they made was not just bringing the cuts to pensions in without any warning. Hence a strike.

I’d prefer it if the Tories had the stones to cut my pay, but they dont so we get all this crap instead

Same here. At least that can be increased again in future. Pension contribution increase is a 5% cut in take home pay for the rest of my life.

Not just about pensions, as already stated it is about the cuts being made elsewhere that have been introduced with 3 weeks notice in the case of my profession. The mistake they made was not just bringing the cuts to pensions in without any warning. Hence a strike.

There are cuts everywhere, as we are in a recession. In our factory we have had two rounds of redundancy, and no-one ever had a guaranteed pension. Not that a private company ever could guarantee a pension in any case, as companies can and do fail. Sales are down, budgets are getting cut.

Outside of the cushy public sector this has been the case since 2007, when you might recall queues outside Northern Rock.

Basically, you’ve had a lot more than three weeks warning that there may be cutbacks coming! Public sector workers have simply been living in laa-laa land pretending its all been nothing to do with them, just other people getting sacked… Yes, those other people that pay their wages and pensions…

although sad people are loosing jobs/pensions…

had too good for too long, the wife had a 3 month stint in the local council office in the tax department, out of an office of 21 people (her mate was a manager), half were on the sick **** all wrong with them just it was so easy to do. the rest used to abuse the flexy time with the managers turning a blind eye. even the mrs mate said 5 people could have easily done the job of the 21!

not nice people loosing jobs but public sector has been taking the piss for years and they know it! people in private sector have been shafted for years!

monkeyboyjc – Member

true – however, that is the way it is and has been in the private sector for years / decades

See, this is really interesting- you’re getting the shaft, which is a shame, but you’re also assuming that everyone else is getting the same shaft. This seems to be pretty common among the shafted. (within my old office, one person worked a lot of unpaid overtime and naturally got no benefit of it, everyone else claimed- but she swore blind that “everyone does it” even when we were all telling her “no we don’t”.)

I have no idea why, but I suspect it’s just another side of the fact that people don’t like to see someone else do better than they are- one response is to try and drag them down to your level, another is to just close your eyes to it and imagine that they’re in the same boat.

Outside of the cushy public sector this has been the case since 2007,

Well most of your so called cushy public sector are in threat of being tupe over
and your service is only held for a year.

Maybe you need to find a descent employer yourself and then we can moan at you ?

dmjb4 –
Not much point in arguing as you appear to have a firmly held view of the public sector which a few lines on a bike forum ain’t gonna change.
However for the record
Our pay has been frozen for 3 years at least-also impacting on those due to retire on final salary pension schemes.I have never had a pay rise as high as the rate of inflation in all my career in the public sector
Redundancies are happening to public sector workers too even though we were always led to believe they wouldn’t.
Our long held redunancy terms have been savaged and are still the case of an ongoing judicial review because the government broke the law in changing them.
Workers in the private sector with poor pay and conditions of service have my sympathy and support.Most would not choose to work there if they had the choice and move on when better opportunities arise….to jobs with better pay.pensions etc
The better parts of the private sector had a long term view and paid good salaries,had good pensions and lots of staff perks, cash bonuses,shares,social clubs etc and as a consequence recruited the best staff and the companies benefited in output ,creativity,quality etc. it’s a whole other thread about why that’s no longer the case.

What about business lunches,Xmas parties,putting it on expenses,kickbacks from suppliers,clocking in for one job and getting paid for the whole day on double time etc-Never seen it in all my years in the public sector but that’s part of the private sector culture-perhaps explains it’s demise……

nick1962 – Member
What about business lunches,Xmas parties,putting it on expenses,kickbacks from suppliers,clocking in for one job and getting paid for the whole day on double time etc-Never seen it in all my years in the public sector but that’s part of the private sector culture-perhaps explains it’s demise……

What. Utter. Garbage.

Most of us do work for decent, fair employers. Our place would love to offer a employer sponsored pension and give everyone a raise, but if the 2012 lineup was priced up 20% to cover that, it wouldn’t sell! We could strike if we like, but failed deliveries would half the customer base and we’d all be out of a job in time for Christmas.

Public sector has become fat and bloated. The vast majority of the public don’t support the planned strike. If the strike does go ahead, I believe the outcome is more likely to be tougher controls on union activity than another bonus for union members.

What. Utter. Garbage.

I think not. One example-
My in law works for what was a long established succesful British family company bought out by an American multi national.
All of the above goes on-company meetings held at an all expenses paid resort in the Caribbean-where the head honchos hook up with high class hookers on expenses?? I could go on. Suffice to say the British arm of the corporation is now financing the rest of the worldwide operation as it is the only profitable part(surprise surprise) and guess where they are cutting back on staff benefits-yes the UK whilst the corporate board swan around the world in 5* hotels and paying themselves 6 and 7 figure bonuses last year . They also have a plant in Africa where they are raping the local environment and poisoning their workers to fund the (bankrupt)American arm of their operation.
Ain’t compassioante capitalism great.

dmjb4 – Member

Public sector has become fat and bloated

I want to challenge the idea that the public sector is somehow synonymous with an underachieving, couldn’t-care-less attitude.

You get the impression that those who work in the public sector are burdens on the state rather than dedicated professionals who work hard to improve the quality of people’s lives.

Public service – the concept of working for the good of the community – is a high ideal. We see it in our doctors and nurses, our police officers and our soldiers.

But we also see it in many, many areas of our civil service and local government. Yet this is rarely, if ever, acknowledged.

And when I hear Ministers bashing bureaucrats – or declaring that their departments are ‘not fit for purpose’ – I wish they’d have the decency to admit that very often it’s their policies that are at fault, not the people who work for them.

Instead of using public servants as scapegoats we should acknowledge their successes.

The truth is that public servants are privately dedicated to what they do. To them, it’s not just work – it’s their vocation. Often it’s not just their job – it’s their life.

Think about what the term “public service” actually means.

It signifies two clear things: that something is being provided for the public, and that it is a service.

Too often these days, there seems to be an automatic and lazy assumption that you get terrible service in the public sector and fantastic service in the private sector.

You regularly hear politicians and commentators going on about “bringing private sector efficiency to public services” – for example sending in private sector ‘hit squads’ to teach hospitals how to perform better.

There’s a widespread assumption that we should always and everywhere encourage the public sector to adopt the techniques and the style of service found in the private sector.

The quality of service that someone gets doesn’t depend primarily on whether that service is being provided by the private sector or the public sector.

It depends on a whole range of things that affect the people who are actually delivering the service.

Whether they’re well led.

Whether they’re motivated.

Whether they have the resources to give good service.

Whether they’re trusted to use their personal skills, experience and discretion to do a good job.

We need to understand what lessons the public sector may have for the private sector, instead of the automatic and lazy assumption that it’s always the public sector that has to learn from the private.

In my life, I’ve received amazing service from the public sector – with a quality of care and commitment that you do not always find in the private sector.

ernie

To be fair the last few ministers in charge of our department whether they be Labour or Tory regularly praise our efforts in completing various projects and implementing new government initiatives,achieving challenging targets and delivering excellent cutomer service.
Unfortunately ministerial praise wont pay my fuel bills in my dotage…the pension I have been building all my working life was for that.

I dont get involved in.these threads nowadays as all opinions are already strongly held and unchangable.
Howver i left a well paid private sector job aged 33 to train as a nurse as i wanted to make adifference to the livesof others. To this end i workextremely hard wih dwindling resources and support.
It really pisses me off that to many of you on here i am a lazy, greedy, overpaid and useless piece of shit not worthy to exist in the same society as you.
I really should consider heading back into my old trade, ut would certainly be better paid and, of course, polymers and resins are far more important than public service, after all it does contibute to the economy.

ernie

To be fair the last few ministers in charge of our department whether they be Labour or Tory regularly praise our efforts in completing various projects and implementing new government initiatives,achieving challenging targets and delivering excellent cutomer service.

Really ? Well they’re doing it very quietly……why don’t they do it publicly and loudly ?

I’m struggling to recall any minister in this government praising public sector workers.

Nope, can’t recall any.

Nope, can’t recall any.

During the riots.

(edit: not the bit about the police being crap and getting it all wrong though – obviously)

I suspect that if polymers and resins went on strike, a modern hospital would grind to a halt within minutes.

A modern hospital also needs engineers, plumbers, cleaners and human resource officers to operate. And farmers making food for the doctors and nurses to eat. And truckers to send blood and bandages round the country. And traders, shopkeepers and wedding photographers all paying taxes so that the good doctors and nurses are given money to feed, clothe and house themselves, as they can’t be farming, knitting and building whilst with patients.

Who cares – I have to waste a days holiday to look after my children because of this!

Just what part of the Public Sector are you actually targeting
All i would not accept
But funny with no reply to what Dangerous beans has written !

dangerousbeans – Member
I dont get involved in.these threads nowadays as all opinions are already strongly held and unchangable.
Howver i left a well paid private sector job aged 33 to train as a nurse as i wanted to make adifference to the livesof others. To this end i workextremely hard wih dwindling resources and support.
It really pisses me off that to many of you on here i am a lazy, greedy, overpaid and useless piece of shit not worthy to exist in the same society as you.
I really should consider heading back into my old trade, ut would certainly be better paid and, of course, polymers and resins are far more important than public service, after all it does contibute to the economy.

I agree that the public sector is fat bloated…. in parts-precisely the same parts as in the private sector IMHO.
Not in the bottom three grades where the vast majority of staff in the public sector work and earn from 14,000 up to 23,000 a year, on the “shop floor”
The senior civil service earn big bucks,our head of IT earns over than 250K a year,more than the prime minister and our IT is sh*t-EDS,Capita,Group 4,Trillium etc make a fortune from the tax payer servicing areas of work that were sold off over the years with big bucks government contracts and how much do you think most of their staff get paid about the same as the bottom three grades in the civil service.
So where does all the money go?

dangerousbeans – Member
It really pisses me off that to many of you on here i am a lazy, greedy, overpaid and useless piece of shit

TBF – I’d think that of you regardless of what job you were doing. 🙂

aleigh – Member

Who cares – I have to waste a days holiday to look after my children because of this!

What can be better than day spent with your children?
Apart from a day on your bike of course 🙂
I’ll just be losing a day’s pay and maybe spending some time on my bike

During the riots.

You see ? I need to pay more attention, I don’t recall any ministers praising public sector workers during the riots. I do recall them praising the courts for dishing out disproportionate sentences though. Perhaps that’s what you mean.

I suspect that if polymers and resins went on strike, a modern hospital would grind to a halt within minutes.

A modern hospital also needs engineers, plumbers, cleaners and human resource officers to operate. And farmers making food for the doctors and nurses to eat. And truckers to send blood and bandages round the country. And traders, shopkeepers and wedding photographers all paying taxes so that the good doctors and nurses are given money to feed, clothe and house themselves, as they can’t be farming, knitting and building whilst with patients.

Did you smash you face on the keyboard to come up with that? That’s the only explanation for such utter crap I possibly think of.

What can be better than day spent with your children?

Good point although I need my holidays for times like when they’re actually meant to be off for half term or are poorly – I can’t accommodate these random days on top of the already ridiculous teacher training days!

dmjb4 is a genius.

Perhaps take the teacher (or head, if its been shut in sympathy) in question to small claims court to recover any expenses?

Told you. Genius.

Perhaps take the teacher (or head, if its been shut in sympathy) in question to small claims court to recover any expenses?

now why didn’t I think of that

That’s the only explanation for such utter crap I possibly think of.

It’s not crap. Although he did leave out builders – without a building there would be no hospital.

And out of the builders the most important and vital trade are the carpenters. The whole hospital hinges on the work of carpenters.

And that is true of schools too, and offices, and houses, and banks, in fact, the whole of society relies on the work of carpenters.

Carpenters should be the highest paid trade/profession in society – just to reflect their importance. They should be on the sort of money which top bankers now enjoy. We owe everything to carpenters. God bless them. And let’s hurry up with the revolution. That is all.

Carpenters should be the highest paid trade/profession in society – just to reflect their importance. They should be on the sort of money which top bankers now enjoy. We owe everything to carpenters. God bless them. And let’s hurry up with the revolution. That is all.

Beaucoup de lollage…..

Let’s not forgot that God made his own son one. Because that’s how important they are.
Apart from the ones employed by the public sector obviously – God hates them.

Carpenters should be the highest paid trade/profession in society

There not in London they’ll struggle to get £ 75 a day self employed on site

ernie

Our minister sends us global e mails regularly and praised us live on parliament tv at some committe meeting or other earlier this year-these things are just not covered in the media,not sexy enough.
BTW he is a complete tosser 🙂

There not in London they’ll struggle to get £ 75 a day self employed on site

You’re having a laugh mate. I’m on one thirty daywork rate. I wouldn’t stay on a site for more than thirty seconds if someone told me the daywork rate was seventy-five. I’ve never heard of anyone getting that sort of money.

Would forestry workers not come before carpenters?

I’ve got an axe….don’t need them.

Public sector carpenter? You are way off the pace,the public sector is now much more efficient with all those sort of service contracted out to the super efficient private sector.
If anything goes wrong in our place we log it with our business support person.
Business support contact the building managment company helpline who assess and prioritise the fault and allocate an appropriate deadline.
They then contact the maintainance contractor manager who then comes out and assesses the fault. He then allocates a new deadline for it to be rectified and passes the job onto the maintenance team.
The maintance man then visits,looks at the job,shrugs his shoulders and says we’ll have to get outside contractors in to sort that as it’s not part of the contract. Our contract managment team then contact the building management contract management team and a million e mails later all parties descend on the office to assess the job again.They eventually reach a compromise on who does what and who pays for what,set a new deadline and various new contractors come in to submit tenders/prices which they do.But then some eagle eyed office clerk reads the small print of one of the contracts and decides that this is a capital project not maintainance so it’s back to the drawing board… so months later the heating’s still broke but by this time it’s summer so who cares…I’m losing the will to live just writing this but you get the picture.