[Closed] All these protesting workers

Genuine fear I'd imagine. From an employers point of view employing foreign workers can only be a good thing. I suspect the would be British worker appreciates this too, adding to the fear.

Hmm, wonder who sold off our natural resources...?

I shouldn't ask, but which natural resources?

To me the fact that they have allegedly said that they would not employ British workers is wrong
If they'd said they're not taking any foreign workers - I can only imagine the uproar

I'd be amazed if they said that publicly. Undoubtedly wrong, but you can see the reasoning.

Total said there weren't going to be "no direct redundancies," Meaning those on short term contracts won't have them renewed.

Short term contracts, don't you just love them? Bringing job security and stability to society. 🙄

The strikes seem fair enough to me, why transport Italians over, when you have workers able and willing to do the job living in the same location as the work.

Total was being stupid and didn't give a shit about the workers, as they picked the cheapest option without thinking of the impact it would have. However with the strikes, I suspect it isn't the cheapest option anymore.

British jobs for British workers is great.....it is the thin end of the wedge. Think of it as the beginning of Protectionism, look at what Obama is doing with the american Steel legislation. Protectionism is a bad thing, it will make the recession a depression and look at your history books to see what could happen next. The last protectionist inspired depression was only really sorted out by 1945. I am not advocating that WW3 is on the way but politicians know that Protectionism will really mess things up so they can't afford for this sort of thing to get a grip. It is really hard for British workers but think about it, if we shut the doors to foreign workers, we could equally see our expats sent home, our companies being refused for overseas contracts etc and as the vast majority of earnings from FTSE100 companies is derived from offshore markets then you will see how vulnerable we are....how every country is.

As with all these things, it is not as straightforward as it seems. Sadly, it might be best to leave the status quo. I'm just glad I am not affected by it, oh yes and I feel for those guys too but as always, the "common man" is at the mercy of bigger politics.

you wouldn't see half of these construction workers for dust if they were all offered tidy contracts in Dubai for 6 months and a day.......

I don't think they need to publicly say they won't employ Brits
The fact that all 400 workers will be Italian or Portuguese pretty much shows that UK staff haven't been considered

maybe the UK staff aren't as good and demand more? british workers often seem to have some pseudo-colonial opinion that they are the best at what they do.

Sweden (i think it was) employs mostly Polish construction workers in a unionised industry. they are paid the same and given the same benefits by law. they are just better at their jobs and work harder.

Hotels in this country were VASTLY inproved by the early influx of eastern european workers, they were gracious, helpful and polite. a few years down the line however, they have becom anglicised (sp) and are as swarthy, rude and down right light fingered as their British predecessors

Maybe all companies should be allowed to employ only certain nationalities?

How about you can only employ Europeans?

Ah...

Got to agree with MrMW. Plenty of industries shunning British workers for cheaper (and often better) foreign workers.

Greed and complacency have not done them many favours.

If they can get more cost effective or better labour then they are obviously going to use it. as mrmichaelwright said, you wouldn't see them for dust if they were offered contracts somewhere warm and sandy. Why should Italians or Portuguese be any different? OK, it is neither warm nor sandy here but you get my drift!

Protecting British jobs has nothing at all to do with xenophobia.

And if a major employer such as Total can't put British interests first, then they are of absolutely no good to us at all, and should be nationalised.

Any subsequent contracting out should include strict contract compliance clauses requiring that wherever possible, British companies are used.

And before anyone says it no, it's not protectionism, it's called common sense. We can still trade with the rest of the world, there's just no need to take the p1ss.

How about you can only employ Europeans?

Only certain ones though - no Jews or blacks allowed

Except that Total is a French company, and (is or was, I think) partly owned by the French govt. So why should they employ Brits more than Spaniards?

And if a major employer such as Total can't put British interests first, then they are of absolutely no good to us at all, and should be nationalised.

Not suggesting that's a good idea. Just saying...

Funny how most Brits seem to be ok with foreign workers doing the cleaning and catering jobs, mind. Well, any job where the wages and conditions are p1ss-poor, really..

No RB, I am fine with anyone doing those jobs.

Only certain ones though - no Jews or blacks allowed

mr Elefant makes a good point

it would be against corporate law for a corporation to put the needs of 'it's' country before that of it's share holders unless there was a demonstrable benefit to those shareholders.

Except that Total is a French company, and (is or was, I think) partly owned by the French govt. So why should they employ Brits more than Spaniards?

They shouldn't
But what they are saying is they'll only employ Italians & Portuguese - that's wrong - no matter how good anyone else they won't get a job if they're any other nationality
Anyway it's not Total it's an Italian firm called IREM

They have a duty to their shareholders to get the best deal.

Of course they have. And that's why they don't necessarily put British interests first.

And if they don't, what good are they to us ?

who really cares. We all drive foreign cars, eat foreign food, holiday abroad, drink foreign alchohol, wear foreign made clothes.
We don't like foreigners taking our jobs.... well you should have thought of that a while ago.

And if they don't, what good are they to us ?

If you mean us Brits, as a nation I think we do OK.

So you're suggesting we withdraw from the EU and nationalise everything?

We'd need some kind of glorious leader with a big bushy moustache (or very small one) to pull it off.

Yes by "us" I mean the British.

I'm not sure why the suggestion that Britain needs to be some sort of dictatorship to leave the EU 😕

the oil industry is full of international workers
including many brits who work all over the world for companies like BP, BG and hundreds of other smaller companies
Certainly Africa has many refinery and drill sites with workers from roughnecks up to the directors almost entirely english or non-local, the only thing we give the local economy is the regional governor some fat kickbacks and 24/7 burning of excess gas and regular oil spills

a global economy cuts both ways i suppose

I guess I just associate nationalisation with dictatorships. Of course we don't need nationalisation if we leave the EU. But that's not any more likely than a moustached dictator.

I think the concept of 'us' as British is as meaningful as 'us' as west-country boys. We're European now... although, like most people, I don't think those protesters have grasped that yet.

We'd need some kind of glorious leader with a big bushy moustache (or very small one) to pull it off.

I could grow a moustache!

And I'm used to pulling things off!

Your politics appear to be perfect too.

I guess I just associate nationalisation with dictatorships

LOL ! So Harold Macmillan (AKA the council house builder) and Ted Heath were 'dictators' then ❓ ❗

You're on form today mate - your hilarious posts are cracking me up !

LOL ! So Harold Macmillan (AKA the council house builder) and Ted Heath were 'dictators' then

Laboour governments always end the same way dont they?

Macmillan did.

Mmm, now I'm starting to see that perhaps.......

Whats the difference between the 'Total' fiasco, and a london company deciding to contract a job out to a manchester based company? (who bring in their own employees) Its the same thing, but on a different scale.

Us brits need to get used to the idea of Europe. We are part of it, we've agreed to be bound by its laws, why the suprise??!

If british employees could do the job as well as the italian company, then they should have been used. I'm guessing they couldn't so they lost out.

Are Italian employees cheaper though? Being European is all very funky if all Europeans are the same, but how much does it cost an Italian company in tax/corporation tax/ni etc vs a British one?

You'd have to assume less, unless British labour is inferior.

I very much doubt they've brought an italian company in to do work that will cost more.... unless the work is significantly better quality (but we've all driven italian cars..!)

They'll do the same work for less money, or more probably less work for less money. Either way its irrelevant, the bid from the italian company was obviously more favourable. Thats all that matters really. Who are we to tell Total what to do? It [i][b]is[/b][/i] a free country after all....

Neb - I've worked on sites where the contract required that 'local' (ie not Manchester) labour be given preference.

There's nothing wrong with people putting the interests of their local communities first. As indeed there's nothing wrong with putting your nation's interest first.

The fact that this [i]even[/i] needs to be argued, speaks volumes about why this country is in the mess it's in.

And btw, I'm pretty sure Italians don't have better constructions skills than the British. Shame on you for thinking that might be a possibility.

As someone who has escaped from North East Lincolnshire, and who may someday enjoy the freedom of being able to find employment in another country, I feel really sorry for the striking workers who are so scared of the principles of the marketplace that they live in, that they feel they must highlight their own ineptness by striking.

The company who use italian workers can do the job cheaper than the company who use british workers. Who is to blame that Total chose the first of the two?

Either way its irrelevant, the bid from the italian company was obviously more favourable. Thats all that matters really.

No, it is relevant. If an Italian company has an advantage because of Italian corporate law then it's our government's fault, not either of the companies involved.

If Italians simply have a better work ethic(!) then we're really in the shit.

fair point gus, but there must be some reason why the italians won the tender? I very much doubt they won it just because they are Italian...

Competition is only a bad thing if you get beat... if it stimulates other british companies to be more efficient, harder working and more viable then surely thats a good thing?

its a bit like the football debate, the influx of foreign players on the premier league.... It has its good points and its bad points but at the end of the day its law and there is **** all we can do about it.

I personally think the EU is a fantastic idea, but only if we embrace it. If we muddle on, bitching a moaning about EU this and EU that, we are doomed. If we withdraw from europe then we'll have an even harder time as we'd have to put up with the americans which are even worse. (and we've got nowt to offer them, and we wouldn't be able to buy electrickery off them either..!)

Employing locals should certainly be a consideration and be seen as a good thing. But it shouldn't be the only consideration. Without knowing all the facts I can't really comment on what the right thing to do was.

I'm glad the company I work for employs foreigners, it's dutch. I'm sure many others are employed by foreign countries as well. Can't have one rule for us and another for them.

Employing locals should be a consideration obviously, but that should come into the analysis of the tender. Which I'm sure total did.

Do you buy from your local bike shop? or do you use the internet to buy stuff? Its a similar argument. I'd never buy on the internet if I could get the same thing, in the same time for the same price at the lbs.

I don't see how the Total/italian issue is any different.