A truly sad day for British society…

jambalaya – Member
See the other thread, IDS has resigned to campaign for Leave. Osbourne is tied to Remain as is Cameron, Remain is a sinking ship.
Hats off to the elements of the press that have managed to link cuts to the disabled as being the result of tax cuts to the middle classes.

Not according to his own resignation letter…
bbc link/url]

As many have long suspected:

– cuts politically motivated. Tick
– ideologically driven. Tick
– economically necessary. Nah (ref IDS comparison of young family vs wealthy pensioners)
– All in it Together… Blown out of the water

Hats off to the elements of the press that have managed to link cuts to the disabled as being the result of tax cuts to the middle classes. The headlines don’t play as well if they read “Tories honour commitments to increase NHS spending by scaling back welfare budgets”

Hats off to jamba for using the words “Tories” and “honour” in the same sentence.

Actually I sort of agree – the public voted to be ****ed, and they have been. In spades. That’s life below stairs for you.

Jambalaya there was no mention of the NHS in his resignation letter, why on earth would the press link it.?

IDS plainly states that tax breaks for the rich are indefensible and that austerity is ideological rather than good for the country…..

Besides which no one believes the Tories are doing anything other than dismantling the NHS, even the Tory graph admits they’ve broken it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/laura-donnelly/12198069/AandE-now-overwhelmed-says-top-doc-as-he-calls-for-army-of-medics-to-be-sent-in.html

Jambalaya tory fanboi
Drinking from the poisoned cup
Writing facts like fairy tales
You really couldn’t make it up

Suckling from the demon’s teat
Mind and soul awash with greed
Writhing debauched, entranced, ecstatic
Drunk and high on Satan’s seed

Prostrate before the foulest alter
Vows taken, dedication whole
Wealth and death and no compassion
For lower tax he sold his soul

Take me up oh wondrous leaders
To join you in your golden beds
Feasting on the poor and needy
Midst lusty trysts with porcine heads

Deluded, rapturous believer
Sacrifice the lesser man
Some of us were born more equal
To take all things since time began

Who will stop these pompous pirates?
Lacking will and weak of chin
Pathetic mewling grasping monsters
Braying waltzing, utter sin

😆

Man, reading through the rest of this thread is just depressing.
I’m starting to think that further cuts to the disabled are absolutely necessary if only to serve to piss off binners to a point where his head actually explodes.

I thought they told us they were the safe bet and labour would mess things

Stop for one minute to imagine where we could be if labour had continued to run the figures. I’m certain of nothing in politics other than being convinced that labour budgeting is suicide.

I wish peole would stop thinking about numbers and focus on the peole concerneds….who gives a shit about what Labour might or might not do to the economy.. Right now the peole in charge are making nasty decisions (as evidenced by the backlash of their own MP’s)…

Slimjim …you want to kill people to upset Binners? What a lovely set of values you have…

Shame that the one thing you are certain of in politics is nonsense slimjim.

The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years

And hilariously hypocritical that Osbourne is now blaming global financial conditions (as well as Labour, obviously) for failing to meet virtually all of his targets for balancing the books when they’ve spent the last few years castigating Labour for happening to be in power when a worldwide financial meltdown happened.

Slimjim …you want to kill people to upset Binners?

You misread (again). I want to kill people in order to kill binners.
A necessary evil. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten

Who’s being demonised?

Jambalaya tory fanboi
Drinking from the poisoned cup
Writing facts like fairy tales
You really couldn’t make it up

Suckling from the demon’s teat
Mind and soul awash with greed
Writhing debauched, entranced, ecstatic
Drunk and high on Satan’s seed

Prostrate before the foulest alter
Vows taken, dedication whole
Wealth and death and no compassion
For lower tax he sold his soul

Take me up oh wondrous leaders
To join you in your golden beds
Feasting on the poor and needy
Midst lusty trysts with porcine heads

Deluded, rapturous believer
Sacrifice the lesser man
Some of us were born more equal
To take all things since time began

Who will stop these pompous pirates?
Lacking will and weak of chin
Pathetic mewling grasping monsters
Braying waltzing, utter sin

I thought it was a pretty generous appraisal of your average common or garden tory boy 🙂

Shame that the one thing you are certain of in politics is nonsense slimjim.

The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years

And hilariously hypocritical that Osbourne is now blaming global financial conditions (as well as Labour, obviously) for failing to meet virtually all of his targets for balancing the books when they’ve spent the last few years castigating Labour for happening to be in power when a worldwide financial meltdown happened.

In the interests of balance, might that be attributable to them tending to take over from a high spending Labour administration? Saying “Osbourne has borrowed more than Brown” is factually correct but very misleading, classic politicking!

Hasn’t it just been reported that as well as losing half of the £45b used in the bank bailout (after promising us a profit)he has just lost a further £22b in the rbs thing?

No wonder he’s ramping up the cuts and greasing the palms of the elite

What a useless pillock.. IBS’ resignation might just be enough of a story to cover it up though

Slimbo – as I’m not presently disabled* why not kill two birds with one stone by hacking one of my legs off, or even both, then leaving me to bleed to death? Thus ensuring not only my untimely, grizzly demise, but as at the time I would technically be a burden on the higher rate taxpayer, a saving to the state?

It’s a win/win!

* people who ride with me regularly may dispute this

Maybe some things need demonising. This government has caused deaths and a great deal of stress/misery for the most vulnerable people in our society. If you don’t think this is worthy of demonising what would it take airtragic?

This guy demonising the government too?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/graeme-ellis-tory-campaigner-quits-party-and-sabotages-website-over-disability-cuts-a6935371.html

You know, the disabled lifelong Tory supporter and activist who’s quit the party in disgust. Perhaps he should moderate his views and be more understanding of others’ viewpoints in case he offends anyone?

It’s funny how those on the right are very quick to complain about PC and how easily offended we are, until they get a bit of criticism and all of a sudden it’s out of order.

Savage murderous bastards don’t like being called names. It makes them have a sad

You misread (again). I want to kill people in order to kill binners.
A necessary evil. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten

@slimjim – where did I misread you last time? Genuine question, not a reactive post. I’ve only made three posts in this thread and two didn’t mention other forum posts…

Stop for one minute to imagine where we could be if labour had continued to run the figures. I’m certain of nothing in politics other than being convinced that labour budgeting is suicide.

So Gideon fails and proves he isn’t very good at running the figures therefore showing his way of doing things doesn’t work yet the people who did a reasonable job with the figures over a decent amount of time are not to be trusted even though there’s no way of knowing if their alternative might be better?

Right.

It’s pretty clear this was a classic case of a budget that started from a point of wanting to give tax cuts to businesses and the middle classes.
It then worked out how it could pay for those tax cuts.
It worked out that cutting welfare was the best way to do this.
It then remembered how poeple stopped them cutting tax credits like they wanted to, because tax credits affect many voters.
It then looked at how many disabled people vote…

My wife is a higher rate taxpayer, we do well for ourselves financially and consider ourselves rich. The fact that we aren’t very financially sensible and blow most of our money on bikes and furniture for our house is our fault.
If one of us lost our job we would be screwed, but we would only have ourselves to blame, as we have been lucky enough to be financially independent. It has been our choice how we spend the money.

A disabled person is very much less likely to be so lucky, due in no small part to the inherent discrimination in the system. Through no fault of their own, many disabled people have no choice but to be dependent upon the state, as there is no other way for them to earn money.

Just because Gideon has decided to reward higher rate taxpayers by punishing the weak does not make higher rate tax payers evil.
At the same time, higher rate taxpayers should probably not go on about how hard done by they are, because they are not. They have the luxury of choice.

So Gideon fails

Subjective. He didn’t hit his quoted targets, but I’m pretty sure the economic shower of shit he inherited was even worse than first predicted. Britains economy has been fairing favourably in comparison to the majority of the rest of the world, so subjectively, you could argue that Gideon has done well all things considered.
IMO it’s too easy to just spout ‘he missed his target he missed his target!’

On balance, I think the cuts to disability have been too deep and too fast. We should indeed be taking better care of the vulnerable. Including *sigh* binners

Well, Steve Crabb is the new minister, the coming man and a modern John Major, great appointment.

Yes Steve Crabb- some are touting him as a possible next leader.

In a way this cock up may benefit the Tories- they’ll realise G.O is a no go for the next leader. G.O cannot win the next election!

Subjective.

Nope – entirely 100% objective.

IMO it’s too easy to just spout ‘he missed his target he missed his target!’

Yep. Because he … errr … missed his targets – you know, the ones he made for himself. If it’s OK to miss them because of <insert excuse here>, what was the point of having them in the first place?

On balance, I think the cuts to disability have been too deep and too fast.

So, just for the record, how deep and fast do you think disability benefits should be cut?

Sideways move for Steven Crabb?

So slimjim, what exactly would he have to do for you to agree that he’s failed?

@slimjim…you can’t have it both ways…first you say..

Stop for one minute to imagine where we could be if labour had continued to run the figures. I’m certain of nothing in politics other than being convinced that labour budgeting is suicide.

Then you say..

He didn’t hit his quoted targets, but I’m pretty sure the economic shower of shit he inherited was even worse than first predicted. IMO it’s too easy to just spout ‘he missed his target he missed his target!’

So you think missing missing targets is ok and that it’s the world econonmy that has been the problem. (Which is also what many economists agree was the issue with the ecomonic problems for Labour i.e. not their fault, world economy issues at play)

What exactly is it that you think Labour would do that’s so different from the excuses you make for Conservative?

Appears to me that your a typical voter who has a (strong) allegiance to a political party without thinking critically what’s going on.

Salad_dodger- nicely done 🙂

G.O cannot win the next election!

He is unelectable. But so is Bozo.

Grum, Yunki, I’m not saying don’t criticise. I’m saying don’t demonise. I think the Government’s actions are worthy of grown-up criticism. As soon as you do this:

Savage murderous bastards don’t like being called names. It makes them have a sad

You sound like this:

And lose credibility. Withdrawing funding isn’t really the definition of murder, is it? Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong Un were/are savage, murdering bastards. David Cameron isn’t. Didn’t Michael Foot ask people to stop calling the Thatcher Govt fascist, in case they didn’t recognise the real thing? FWIW I have no problem with criticism or “political correctness”, it’s mostly just not being a dick, isn’t it?

@slimjim…you can’t have it both ways…first you say..

Stop for one minute to imagine where we could be if labour had continued to run the figures. I’m certain of nothing in politics other than being convinced that labour budgeting is suicide.

Then you say..

He didn’t hit his quoted targets, but I’m pretty sure the economic shower of shit he inherited was even worse than first predicted. IMO it’s too easy to just spout ‘he missed his target he missed his target!’

So you think missing missing targets is ok and that it’s the world econonmy that has been the problem. (Which is also what many economists agree was the issue with the ecomonic problems for Labour i.e. not their fault, world economy issues at play)

What exactly is it that you think Labour would do that’s so different from the excuses you make for Conservative?

Appears to me that your a typical voter who has a (strong) allegiance to a political party without thinking critically what’s going on.

It’s a question of priorities; Labour went into the 2010 election looking to cut more slowly, something Osborne had to do halfway into his first term anyway. They would probably have focused slightly more on taxation rather than reducing spending. Both parties are ideologically hamstrung, but in different directions. Would the deficit and hence debt be higher if Labour had won in 2010? Would it matter? Difficult question!

We don’t and never will know how a Labour government would have faired over the same period.

What we do know is that Osbourne and his mates have failed.

Gideons failure (apart from misunderstanding the root of the problem like most western leaders of all political persuasions) has been to be caught out by the independent forecasters who set the parameters for the budgets. They were too optimistic last time resulting in GO’s overconfidence. Now they had to revise down the growth assumptions (still relatively strong mind) and so the Treasury has to re do all the sums and Gideon seemed caught out hence the stupidity re disability payments.

Perhaps now the austerity BS could be put to rest. Relaxing fiscal policy stance is one reason why we are doing relatively better than similar countries. Not that he would admit it.

Appears to me that your a typical voter who has a (strong) allegiance to a political party without thinking critically what’s going on.

As it happens, I didn’t vote blue at the last election, so erm, nope.

I’m not defending out of allegiance, I’m offering a different perspective because it seems to me that most are predispositioned to disagree and spout hate no matter the outcome they are actually facing.
Targets are just targets, and I think some leeway is fine on this occasion as the inherited situation was simply so dire.
I cannot buy into the argument of spending the country out of trouble – it’s an absurd principal. As is growing the state in the name of providing ‘tax paying jobs’.

Out of interest, has anyone on any of these threads ever read the opinions offered, considered them, and changed their mind as a result?

How can he justify the continued destruction of the public services if he stops banging the austerity drum? They won the election by frightening people in to believing the clap trap they were spouting so they can’t very well change script.

I cannot buy into the argument of spending the country out of trouble – it’s an absurd principal. As is growing the state in the name of providing ‘tax paying jobs’.

Then I would respectfully suggest that you educate yourself regarding some fairly basic economic principles before continuing with this thread, and certainly before venturing near a voting booth.

Which script. They abandoned the tough stuff yonks ago

Very good advice Dr as this thread shows

Ok, will do.

However, I would respectfully counter that both points you have paraphrased are ones I have heard argued on radio/tv/pub on a fairly regular basis.

Which script.

The script that says “we have to cut benefits to vulnerable people or the country will go down the plughole”.

Oh I see, thanks

Pleasure 🙂